Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 200

Thread: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

  1. #1

    Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    Firstly, where am I coming from on this. I dont play any current GW games and I never really liked WAB. I have however looked forward to this game for along time and approached it with an open mind...



    The first thing that strikes you about KG Normandy (KGN) is the sheer size and quality of the rulebook. It is a massive large format book, with 346 full colour glossy pages. The book is crammed full of stuff, and illustrated with a host of period and miniature pictures. By looks alone this book is easily up there with the best of the rest. There isnt alot else to say on this score other then it features almost all of Dave Andrews wonderful 20mm collection in alot of the pictures. So on looks, it scores very high.

    But what about substance.



    The rules themselves take up the first 69 pages. Im sure that will lead to gasps of horror from some Grognards, but to me thats a bonus. The rules and clearly and concisely written, explained in short, easy to read paragraphs and often followed directly by examples. This has to be one of the easiest to follow rulebooks I have read. We were able to play a game simply by running through the QRS and referencing the rules. The index works well, and their is an obvious and natural order to the rules that makes finding things intuitive. From the point of view of comprehension, again these rules score high.

    The style of play, is perhaps best described as 'Old Skool' with a few new touches... and it does it very well. The game is set at a nominal 1 to 1 ration, with battles played at 'platoon', 'company' or 'battalion' level, but generally governed by a total points limit. The larger the points value of an army, the larger the table required. To give an example, a 'platoon' action of 250 points is played on a 6 x 4 game. As armies get larger, so does the table. This format is very user friendly and gamers new to the period can play larger games as they increase their armies.



    Next we have a command and control phase. Its simply done, a roll of x number of d6 dependant of the size of the army and the number of command elements added. This gives you the number of units you can 'activate' in a turn. Simple and fast. But as always, things can expand on this. German signal units allow a commander to re-roll the dice throw for example. I must say I really enjoyed this mechanism and its a nice middle balance between total control of Rapid Fire, and the lack of control in Blitzkrieg Commander. It works really well. Again its simple, fast and intuitive.

    From this we come to the shooting. Everytime you fire you have to spot your target, once again its a simple procedure but well thought out. Then you try and hit your target, followed by penetration if firing at armour. Infantry then get cover saves to avoid becoming a casualty. With armour, its fast and deadly. Penetrating hits almost always lead to a tank being knocked-out from the battle. Its sounds brutal, but it actually isnt and plays out really well. But watch out... Vehicle have a limited supply of ammo, so make sure you bring those supply trucks for long drawn out fights!

    There are also some excellent indirect fire rules, where your OPs actually drop in ranging rounds before getting the guns to fire on target. Its very nicely modelled with both players involved in the process, which is a nice touch keeping both involved. I must say that this, and the Suppression rules, are what have impressed me the most.



    Suppression allows you to pin down an enemy force by weight of fire into a location. This is unobserved fire, and if successful suppresses a unit until it is 'rallied'.

    Morale works in two ways. First the usual rolls when losses reach a certain point, but also the drawing of morale chits due to certain things - destroyed vehicles, lost objectives etc. These chits are numbered, and you score a tally against your armies breakpoint. The nice touch is your opponent doesnt know your score, so you never really know how bad off an enemy is. In with these chits are a number of optional event chits that give mechanical breakdown, out of ammo and aircraft support to throw at your enemy. Again a simple, yet really well thought out system. I really liked this and it plays so well.



    Thats the basics to the rules. I must say I really enjoyed playing them. The game is fast and fun, without the player having total control and uncertainty clouds your every move. You have to carefully plan your attacks.

    The main body of the rules is taken up with a historiography of the Normandy campaign, army lists, scenarios to play and two campaigns. Each is done from a US and a British viewpoint. Some people have moaned that its 'only Normandy'. Yer, well wake up and look at most WW2 rulebooks - They all generally are! Its a perfect setting to get a maximum amount of late-war data to players for the three most popular armies. All rulebooks tend to focus on this period, so to castigate the rules on that point is a little erroneous. But I couldnt care less anyway - Normandy is my favourite setting for WW2 games.

    The background history is well done. Players new to the period will find they have a useful resource with uniform guides and no real need to by anything else on the period. Having spoken to two people new to the period, both agreed this was a massive boon to a new comer. Finally we have a WW2 rulebook that is a complete package... a typical GW style product. That in my view is very worthwhile, and it will encourge new players.



    The Army lists are also cleverly done. One cant help but pick a balanced list and the tank lovers will find their all tank armies easily broken due to a lack of morale points. The whole army design process is done to promote combined, balanced armies. You could of course use historical formations (as done in several of the scenarios) but for planning a game down the club, nothing beats having a points system to fall back on for ease of getting a game together. You can play without them, Rapid Fire lists would work perfectly, but I must admit to being rather taken with the army lists.

    So overall, is it worth £48? Thats really the question people want answered. I can only give you my view and thats a resounding YES.I will be playing alot more of KGN...

    Pictures from last nights game. More indepth analysis after the next game...

  2. #2
    Commander kublai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Stuttgart / Germany
    Posts
    689

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    thanky you very much for the review !

    How is the base system ? Is it one Soldier per base or more figures per base ?

  3. #3

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    Yup... Single basing.

  4. #4

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    We played a four player 600 point game this evening.

    Each of us chose a 300 point army using the lists, with two on each side. We then rolled for scenario and played 'The Next Village' where one side must capture a held village. This was rather nicely done with half the defending army not arriving till half way through the game. Worked very well with staggered deployment for the Germans attacking and then the difficulty of the British reinforcements arriving under fire...






    Played very well, great game. We played all 12 turns in about 4 hours and it was a real slugfest. We learnt just how deadly Panthers are... but also how one Firefly can make all the difference (he popped three Panthers!). We also had a Spitfire fly over and as I had an FAC we managed to bomb a StuG! Was a close game for a while but the Germans finally got beaten with one half of the army collapsing on turn 12 and the other half having taken huge losses with no objectives captured.




    I must say this game has really reignited my love of WW2 games. It plays very fast, with a nice sense of realism and is very exciting. Very enjoyable game, one of the best games for a long time.






    Just give an idea, this was my 300 point force from the British Armoured list...


  5. #5
    Commander kublai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Stuttgart / Germany
    Posts
    689

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    what company are your miniatures from ? By the way the look fantastic.

  6. #6

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    Various 20mm companies - AB Figures, Grubbytanks, Britannia, FAA, Elhiem, Battlefield...

  7. #7

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    Last night we tried a 750 point game... Six players, each with a 250 point army.





    I decided to try out something the 'haters' keep telling me that the rules promote. I went for an all tank army. All I can say is that the people who think these rules promote this form of 'power-gaming' aint played or read the rules...

    My 250 point and legal army... It was a disaster.




    Anyway, we basically had a good all-round Allied army, with each player having some tanks, infantry and artillery. For the Germans we had my uber-panzer group and two panzer-grenadier platoons with not much else! We really lacked in artillery.



    One thing that the game models so well is the relative effect of the artillery. While the Allies had four M7 Priests, we had two Hummels. But this was not the true picture... The Allies get far higher ammo rating for their artillery to reflect their far better supply and plenty of it! The germans on the other hand find themselves with very poor ratings. This means that a Priest has 7 'shots' of artillery fire before it reloads... Our poor Hummels only had 2! This is such a massive difference but rather neatly models that aspect of the campaign. We had to park a supply truck beside the Hummels to keep them firing while the Priests just plugged away. It will be interesting to see if in other supplements the ratings change to reflect better supply for the Germans. Never in a game before have I dreaded the enemy artillery fire. This game really showed the worth of the Allied artillery as it hammered us into the ground... Indeed it struck the Hummels as they were re-supplying and destroyed a Hummel and the supply truck with direct hits... I honestly hate Allied artillery.



    The other neat thing is the morale chits. As you take them and keep them secret, your opponent has no idea how badly your army is doing. While the Allies last night thought they were doing badly, we had suffered far higher losses, indeed over half our morale was gone compared to just a sixth of theirs... But they didnt realise this till the end. It adds a real sense of uncertainty to things.



    As for my 'uber-panzer' army... Well I aint taking that again... It plodded along slowly, lacking enough command elements to get it performing right, and despite having more firepower than the Allies put together it was so ineffectual it was scary... Unable to take and hold objectives my army just prowled around like an annoyed slug.



    Have to say, the more I play of these rules, the better they get... And this is just in the points based games. Alot of this is to do with the cleverly designed scenarios that really give a sense of the campaign and offer interesting tactical challenges to both players.

  8. #8
    Brother Sergeant
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Leeds, W. Yokshire, UK
    Posts
    41

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    I will admit, rarely am I moved to be encouraged to purchase a new game, the nearest recently is maybe Clash of Empires. However, having written a rules set for WWII skirmish (and posted on here with no replies or feedback ) I can see many aspects of this game I touched on, and other rules I couldn't figure out how to model (such as the morale system) so this looks to be admirably resolved and worked into the core rules. It sounds and looks like just the job for any WWII game, so, to my question to anyone (Big P from gmg?);

    My figures are all 28mm, with a healthy smattering of 1:56-60th vehicles.
    I have a full British, German and US infantry platoons all with varying Divisional and Company support, would this set of rules be suitable for a Platoon sized game at 28mm with one model = one model? Having read reviews on the WAB website it seemed that this game was designed for 20mm which is NOT what I'm after considering the models I do have already.

    If it can be Platoon level at 28mm then I think I may order a copy via my wife for my birthday next month... Thanks in advance, your answer could make me a happy man!

    Arken

  9. #9
    Brother Sergeant
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Leeds, W. Yokshire, UK
    Posts
    41

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    OH, and lovely battle, game and KGN report and review, great stuff, keep it coming, it is truly inspirational!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. #10

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    I dont see why you couldnt use it as it is for 28mm.

    Its 1 - 1 scaled, infantry move 5" per action... Weapon ranges may look a little short (48" for a tank) but you could play on a 6 x 4.

    I tend to ignore rules that say they are for a certain scale... Never see what difference it makes really with alot of rules.

  11. #11
    Brother Sergeant
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Leeds, W. Yokshire, UK
    Posts
    41

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    Cheers bud, sounds like just the ticket. In the game I wrote I had it that all weapons (except SMGs, Pistols and things like Bazookas) had an unlimited range. However each weapon had an effective range (example, rifles generally have unlimited range, but effective range are shots up to 21", an M1Carbine by comparison has an effective range of only 14". Outside of these ranges the effects were just suppressive) and this meant that there were two different tables to roll on for effect. It meant that range wasn't an issue per se, just how effective the shot was within a certain distance.

    Anyways, I digress, I think I will order KGN for my birthday, there's aspects to it that really seem to hit the spot, thatnks for the great write up the whole thing looks like a winner!

    Ark

  12. #12
    Chapter Master Mr. Ultra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Happyland, in a gumdrop house on Lollipop Lane
    Posts
    1,232

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    Great review!
    This is the war-ravaged world of Warhammer, and there's only WAR!... and hammers.

  13. #13

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    Thanks for sharing a report after gaming. It does sounds pretty good to me as well.

  14. #14
    Librarian alphachicken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    London
    Posts
    335

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    I dunno who in their right mind gave this blog a 3 star. 5* from me for a nice intro and explanation, the photos look really nice as well. Even though I only play 40k you got my interest!

    Keep up the good work.

  15. #15

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    Last nights game was a 500 point aside encounter between US Infantry and SS...

    The US have one massive advantage over the enemy - Artillery and Airpower. They have far higher chances of requesting artillery supporting fire, and also getting it from very big guns! They also have a higher chance of getting air support.




    This was the 500 point I took, based around two US infantry platoons... What you dont see is the 12 Artillery requests I took...




    The scenario we played was the defence-in-depth, which saw the US having to defend against the Germans. However only a certain portion of the US force could be on table at the start, so we elected to place our two infantry platoons and our FAO on table, with all our armour off for the start.

    The Germans would also have a staggered start with 1d6 units arriving per turn. Due to really poor rolls, alot of their forces hadnt arrived by the time our reserves started to arrive.


    From the start we bombarded the Germans with artillery fire. Dependent o the requests you make you roll randomly to see what is firing into your sector of the front. Our first supporting fire turned out to be from a ship off the coast and on the first turn Naval gunfire smashed into the Germans.




    This continued to be the theme of the game. We hunkered down and tried to shell every move the Germans made. This was quite successful and we completely disjointed their attack. The turn came when one of our 76mm Shermans got a lucky hit on a Panther coming through one of the few gaps in the bocage. The round took the tracks off the Panther and the immobilised Panther blocked the route of attack for the rest of the German armour. Unable to pass and blocked in by hedges it was forced into a long range gun duel with Shermans and infantry, causing losses to both sides.




    However the single German Tiger was making a dash up the road. Sadly as it neared a position to take on the Yanks, a morale chit gave us 'Mechanical Breakdown'... We of course played it on the Tiger! Its engine spluttered and died... Immobile on the road! The following turn a P-47 Thunderbolt appeared and its salvo of rockets slammed into the Tiger but only managed to suppress it. With a combination of artillery fire the Tiger was kept out of the game.




    As the game ended the Germans had made it halfway, but superior US artillery fire kept them from advancing. Once the German artillery had been used up they were unable to suppress the US defences to push through. Though not without losses the US managed to edge a slight win, but it was only by two victory point.




    Great game for the Yanks, it felt great to be constantly dropping shells on the enemy, even though it didnt always work out... It certainly frustrated the German players no end! Very realistic game and the morale chits gave a great narrative to the game. What I like with this game is that each game seems to get better as you discover the nuances among the different armies and the equipment. Certainly an army works best when its built along historical lines and plays to its historical strengths.

  16. #16
    Commander Wil Grand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    954

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    Sounds like a good book, then! Glad to see it's focus is history instead of Flames of War style power game stuff.
    Has a shrine to Rick Priestley adorned with sacrificial dice and his own blood.

    Currently painting miniatures by-
    http://www.torgaming.co.uk/rd/games/relics/
    http://www.games-workshop.com
    www.warlordgames.co.uk

  17. #17
    Brother Sergeant
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Leeds, W. Yokshire, UK
    Posts
    41

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    Yeah, I've never really liked FoW, the models nearly drew me in, then I played the game...

    I must say this sounds like just the thing I've been looking for. Now, a bit of a historical ramble to outline my interest. On a Tactical level (say Squad -> Company up to Battalion) the Germans were seen to be incredibley hard to beat, especially as they had uber amounts of MG34/32 at squad level, where as the allies had to rely on Platoon/company/battalion level for their MGs (it was thought that generally the Brits needed about 2 platoons to match the firepower of one German Ptn)

    Where the allies started coming into their own however was in resources, and at the higher level (strategically) they were not half as hindered/interfered with as the Germans due in large part to Hitler's interference down to even Battalion level. So, the point I'm getting at is, do the rules reflect this sort of thing also (the differences, nationally, between the US, UK and German forces)? It sounds hopeful, especially when you said in your original report that the Priests had 7 artillery points of ammunition per turn, the Germans had only 2. It seems that the US need either artillery or a larger amount of troops to match the Germans. Historically (against the crack German units at least) this would fit in, although obviously there were lot of understrength and poor units in the area.

    I'm that close to getting it ordered, it looks like a great game. Keep the battle reports coming in, they are just great! Really nice Tiger too, are the figures all 20mm? Right, I'm off to mould some more zimmerit to my Panzers...

    Cheers,

    Arken

  18. #18

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    Arken,

    it does do a good job of modelling the 'attributes' of the forces involved in the Battle for Normandy.

    Its a remarkably clever set of rules that very simply adds a layer of historical feel tothe game that very few rules have managed to do. Ammunition being just part of it... But having German SPs with considerably less ammo than their Allied counterparts neatly brings that problem for the Germans into the game. I never let my germans leave home without a supply vehicle now!

    So the Yanks really benefit from very good artillery support and ground-to-air coordination with a good solid core of infantry. The British have a fairly decent all round army but tend to lack some of the infantry anti-armour capability of the Yanks, but benefit from having a wider array of armour for specialist jobs. The Germans have outstanding armour, but not alot of it! Plus their expensive infantry means you have to decide very carefully how to compose a battlegroup.

    But whats nice is that it all works for 'historical' as well as points based games. People moan about points systems, but for a club night with no time for prep, they are a god-send. Add in the superb scenario selection - that feel like historical engagements not just line up fights and it makes for a very useful and versatile system.

    I would be a dyed in the wool Rapid Fire gamer, but always felt something was missing. KGN has filled that spot and it is, for me and my club at least, just what we wanted. I really hope they do more supplements to follow this as it deserves to be a widely played system. Only time will tell I guess.

    All my WW2 stuff is 20mm... The only scale for WW2.

  19. #19
    Brother Sergeant
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Leeds, W. Yokshire, UK
    Posts
    41

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    Well, you have sold it to me, I will request this game for my birthday (my 35th at that ), do you have shares in KGN?

    Thanks for the response, that's just the sort of thing I was after, once I have game I'll try to post on here. And yeah, I would have moved to 20mm, but have spent a ton of cash on 28mm, and more importantly time and love, a switch to 20mm would be just too painfull I think, at the moment at least...

    Cheers fella,

    Ark

  20. #20

    Re: Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

    It will work for any scale, wouldnt worry too much about that. You could increase the ranges but if you dont have too many vehicles you could get a nice 200 point game to fit on a 6 x 4.


    Wish I did have bloody shares in it... Make a fortune. My aim is just to try and offer an alternative view to all the 'remote' reviewers, who have managed to know the game is crap without ever reading the rules or playing a game. Its not everyones cup of tea but it suits me perfectly.

Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •