Kampfgruppe Normandy - a Short Review & Log

[Arken]

I must admit I was one of those that were a bit sceptical when it came out, but people like yourself have 'enlightened' the rest of us (I hope)

It does seem like there has been a real effort to encapsulate key elements of warfare, something that is obviously lacking in the likes of 40K. The demoralizing effects of sustained heavy fire on an enemy can break them, even if they don't actually get killed, seems to be nicely modelled in the morale count down system for instance (the possibility of winning a game by suppressing fire only is just genius...)

As for scale, my vehicles are predominantly from S and S models and Westwind, so at the smaller end of the gaming/model scale, so I don't think I will suffer too much from the ranges given. Personally I think ranges are misleading half the time in games and shouldn't be on for the likes of tank guns and artillery that had effective ranges of thousands of meters so should be unlimited really, but we will see. We play mostly on 6'x4' boards anyways so sounds like it will all work out fine.

I've asked for it for my birthday, so we'll see how I get on!

Cheers fella!

Ark

[the_corvus]

Personally I think ranges are misleading half the time in games and shouldn't be on for the likes of tank guns and artillery that had effective ranges of thousands of meters so should be unlimited really

It depends if the game has a ground scale in line with the model scale. Flames of War for instance doesn't (and infantry, tanks, and arty scale only in their own category). IMO games at a scale like 15mm are better off modelling spotting ranges. For example most of the terrain any "hot" Cold War battle would be fought over in Germany had lines of sight of 500-800 meters on average, while the tanks on both sides had effective ranges of several kilometres plus. Even infantry wouldn't have a problem engaging at those ranges.

What matters (in tank warfare) is the time it takes to acquire, aim, and fire at a target.

[Flightleader]

Ok, so I like this thread! It played a major part in my buying the book. It is a lovely book! But it is not a very good rulebook... Why?

The hobby aspect is completely missing! It mentions the scale is 20mm/ 1:72 or 1:76 but then fails to recommend basing system, Manufacturers or modeling ideas! It also fails to show typical forces for KgN! Yes, there is an armylist, but no picture!

Why do I think modeling is important? Because this scale suffers more than any other scale of having incomplete, incompatible and highly erratic and variable ranges when it comes to Infantry and support figures. There is also TONS!! of stuff out there in this scale...some pointers to the good stuff or at least telling us what miniatures were used in the pictures would have been nice.

This looks like it was not a well thought out book either from an historical point of view. The designer notes are frankly a little worrying and do not lend the reader much enthusiasim for the rules...He states that WWII is all about tanks... Ok..yes, tanks played a major roll and are very iconic of the time period...so why are there no tank profiles? All the profiles are on infantry! He wrote a rules set so he could play with tanks and then made infantry quintessential?? While I very much applaud this...I find the fact that the final product does not reflect why he developed the rules a little odd.

I have Kinrade's very well layed out and writen Siege of Vraks books he wrote for forgeworld...while a work of fiction, this series is much better in layout and storytelling.

It's a shame. The book is absolutely lovely, and the rules are very nice...but they are frustratingly vague and they lack diagrams!

So many lovely pictures in this book but no diagrams of how to play!

In short, this book does not seem complete. The rules seem to be well rounded (but needs more diagrams). The scenarios sections is incredible! The armylist creation is not very well explain at all. But the rest is simply a feast of Pictures...lovely but not very usefull to the gamer.

The history is all over the shop and in several instances very incorrect.

Overall, I'm mixed.

It is undoubtably a well made book...but it's missing the ingredients of a rulebook. It is most definately not an entry level product because of this!

Had I not read this blog and your battle reports...I don't see any reason for me to have bought it if I saw it on the shelf.

Like I said before, I'm mixed in my feelings towards the book. It definately has an updated old-school charm I like, but lacks some of the basics of the new-school which help make the game. A fact I'm very surprised of as all other Warhammer Historical publications have been fantastic. If this is what we can expect from them now under their new management...Things look rather uncertain...I'll wait and see. But this book could do with having the different scenario sections being in seperate books and the rules fleshed out with more diagrams and photos of different army collections, or just a hobby section full stop and maybe even (gasp) a mini battle report.

That's it from me.

Cheers,

Flightleader

[Witchsmeller]

I can not speak to most of your post as I haven't read the rule book yet, but just flipping through the rule book I found proflies for tanks in the various army lists. For example the British tanks are listed on page 152. Or am I not understanding you correctly?

[Flightleader]

I can not speak to most of your post as I haven't read the rule book yet, but just flipping through the rule book I found proflies for tanks in the various army lists. For example the British tanks are listed on page 152. Or am I not understanding you correctly?

I mean stuff like what's on Pg 165,175, 191, 193, 201, 211, 224, 231, 295, 301, 309, 315, 319.

There are notes on the arsenal like on page 145...but they're just words.

Wargaming is highly visual and there are Alot of pictures in the book, but not enough identification. I think some people forget that not everyone can visually tell the difference between many weapons and armour. While you or I may immediately recognise a Panzer IV over a Panther G. This is not always the case. This book is thus very much not a beginners book and yet the way it displays history and informs the reader on weapon histories, it reads like it was intended for someone new to the period. It are little incongruencies like these that what is otherwise an amazing book into one that needs alot more thought.

The lack of hobby section and not enough diagrams of play is frankly my biggest issue with the book. I just think that it could've been a little better thought out. Also, while the collection displayed was nice. In a book with over 300 pages you'd think they'd be able to organise them into more than just action shots. An example shot of the different force sizes, maybe a force at Platoon level, Company level and then Battalion level. Having more than one person's collection. Maybe actually showing people playing the game? A colour guide... Something!

The book itself is amazing! the rules are looking great, and after a few goes at 15mm scale it looks like a keeper.

It's just that personally I find that the hobby aspect is what is missing. There is no real sense of building and painting up a new collection. There is simply too much focus on the campaign sectors for a rule book. I love the campaigns and scenarios. But having them in another book would have also made life easier! Then you can really focus on your perfered sector and there would be alot more scope for expansion.

Anyways, I'm glad I bought the book. I just wish it were more of a rulebook!

Cheers,

Flightleader

[6sided]

Great review. I just cannot see how the game can be worth 48 quid though, especially when you can pick up Rules Of Engagement off Ebay for £20.

[colhodg]

I think I will order KGN for my birthday, there's aspects to it that really seem to hit the spot

going to hold you to that, am sure there will be ammendments

Looks interesting big p - excellent review thanks

[Arken]

going to hold you to that, am sure there will be ammendments

Yes, full re-write of the book with erratta, amended to cover it the way I think it should be done

Well, that wouldn't happen soon, my request for the book didn't work out, so I'll just have to save up for the thing, another ruleset to learn, what fun!

Ark

[big p from gmg]

Last nights game was a 400 point set-piece battle using the 'Village' scenario. The Germans used the Infantry list as did the Americans, so both sides were very heavy on infantry and artillery with only a handful of tanks on either side. The Americans, as the attacker, had to capture three objectives, two of which were located in the village itself.







The attack was led by a US FAO Team who raced forward in their jeep, only to run over a cunningly placed minefield. The blast destroyed the jeep and killed all the occupants. Not long after this the second US FAO Team came under shell fire and were pinned down. In return US Artillery stonked one of the German anti-tank guns.

[big p from gmg]

An artillery duel then commenced and the US suffered the worse with the second FAO Team dying under a Nebelwerfer barrage and the group HQ becoming casualties due to a 120mm mortar stonk! Things seemed against the US but then the Shermans arrived. These advanced without risk and various elements of the Ost Platoon fled rather than stand and fight. Even the arrival of two StuG IIIs did little as they took out one Sherman and then both were destroyed in return. To add to the German woes, a passing P-47 arrived and began to rocket first the German supply column and then the Radio truck and finally one of the German anti-tank guns. Despite a brave defence the Ost Battalion took heavy losses, watching in disbelief as their Panzerfaust bounced off the Shermans. With the US Infantry pinned down by Nebelwerfers and HMG fire it was left to the US tanks to do the job. This they did with aplomb, as the Pak38 with the Ost Platoon seemed to be firing duds!







Finally the German morale broke, although the US force was teetering on the brink too... Ironically, the German Grenadiers in the line with the Ost Platoon suffered no casualties at all!



In the end a lucky US victory, which saw a distinct lack of lady luck on both sides!

[nedsta]

Subscribed, great review of the game, please keep posting more.

[Easy E]

Nice bat reps and models!

[lopezpie]

wow thanks for this... its a blast please keep it going. subscribing

[big p from gmg]

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315454

...and my new blog covering KGN...

http://ww20mm.blogspot.com/

[big p from gmg]

Full Platoon








Mortar Support and FAO




Company Command, with additional PIAT Team and MP




Sniper markers (I know he has a Bren... My Grandad sniped with one once!)

[big p from gmg]

Highway to Hell - KGN AAR

Last nights games was a 500 point aside encounter battle using the 'Highway to Hell' scenario. This features a road down the table centre with multiple objectives. The central objective was the farm. We used the SS Panzer lists against the US Armoured list.




While our German forces was tiny compared to the US,it packed a big punch...



In this scenario Recce comes on first, followed by a vanguard, then the main force. The Recce of both sides did little, though the Yanks faired better as they were able to steal one of the objectives. When the vanguard arrived, the German got yet more morale counters as the light recce got too cocky and ran inot a gaggle of Armoured infantrymen...

[big p from gmg]

The Yanks were also able to rush the centre objective and a big pile of morale counters grew on the German side, things looked even worse when on the next German turn a double 1 for the command saw little happen, and the Yanks effectively got a free turn, not fun when they have batteries of 155m guns and mortars...





Then, as always things took a turn... A double six for the German command rolls saw it all change. The Shermans on the road got destroyed in quick succession by the Tiger II and the Command Panther, while the rest of the Panthers advanced with the infantry to take one of the objectives. This was quickly followed by artillery and and Nebelwerfer fire and then the Panthers shot up the remains of the US column on the road, destroying an M10 Wolverine and the US M16 AA Half-Track.





As another salvo of rocket fire crashed into the US command positions, the loss of a mortar team was enough to send the US over their morale limit. Despite having taken less counters than the German, most of the were 3 and 4, wrecking their morale, despite their infantry being virtually unengaged. The US suffered from unsupported armour that was destroyed piecemeal and a poorly chosen RTP that could never be used. Was a good game and at the start looked like being a big win for the Yanks...



Until the Panthers arrived.

[Olja]

Nice AARs. I was skeptical about buying another Warhammer book. This thread helped convince me to buy it. I also picked up Waterloo from the online store. If anything they have a lot of shiney pictures.

[big p from gmg]

Got Waterloo too... Its the best produced wargames book I have ever seen. Its is stunning.

And the rules are pretty good too!

[big p from gmg]

The first playtest of our army lists for Early War last night and we played 400 points using the 'Next Village' scenario with a French armoured force defending an attack by German motorised infantry.








The French force was tank heavy, but with them all in the reinforcements, the table initially defended by all the infantry. The German force was mainly infantry with armour support.






The game began with the French quickly getting the upper hand. Accurate French artillery fire suppressed and pinned down the recce units and my Panzer IVs that arrived, with one of the Panzer IVs going up in flames as a plunging 155mm shell hit it spot on! Not a great start.