Hero analysis: The Barbarian

[Jolly Puggles]

The Trollslayer, while perhaps a better fighter/tank than the Barbarian, is balanced with some very serious drawbacks. He cannot roll on the Escape table, and in fact will always charge in to attack the biggest Monster in any combat. This reduces his chance of survival considerably!

But then the Trollslayer also goes up in Level a lot faster than any other hero because of his special rules regarding gold.

[BigRob]

The Trollslayer, while perhaps a better fighter/tank than the Barbarian, is balanced with some very serious drawbacks. He cannot roll on the Escape table, and in fact will always charge in to attack the biggest Monster in any combat. This reduces his chance of survival considerably!

I can't remember more than a handful of games where we were forced to use the escape table, so not so much of an issue.

Charging the biggest monster....well what else were you going to do with it?

Faster Leveling up is true, he doesnt keep having his gold melted/stolen/eaten by Quargs so he does enjoy that perk (plus he doesn't have much to spend it on anyway....)

[EldritchGamer]

The Trollslayer, while perhaps a better fighter/tank than the Barbarian, is balanced with some very serious drawbacks. He cannot roll on the Escape table, and in fact will always charge in to attack the biggest Monster in any combat. This reduces his chance of survival considerably!

That and absolutely no armour - or even clothes one some models!

[BigRob]

That and absolutely no armour - or even clothes one some models!

Now while the barbarian can wear all armour (which doesn't actualy make alot of sense, that is the realm of knights and dwarves) by the time you get to level 6+ armour becomes a bit useless since anything you meet will either blast you with magic, ignore the armour with magic or just rip you apart like a tin can (when monsters start getting 3+ damage dice the party know about it) so armour is not such an advantage at these levels.

The only time it helps is with hordes of lesser beasties which a well places deathblow or two will clear from the board in a round or two. Therefore the Trollslayer still keeps the edge over the barbarian in the fighting stakes.

A better option for WHQ 2 might be to replace the Barbarian with a knight in the starter box and have him as a special warrior pack later on.

[Inchpractice]

The barbarian has always been fruitful in my games. Going first is a big bonus and having first pick of the treasure cards often means he is kitted out nicely. I agree that his strength should jump to 5 at some point and the dwarf the better warrior though.

How does everyone interpret the beserk skill, if you roll a 1 do you let the barbarian try again then next available turn or is that his only chance for the combat?

[BigRob]

The barbarian has always been fruitful in my games. Going first is a big bonus and having first pick of the treasure cards often means he is kitted out nicely. I agree that his strength should jump to 5 at some point and the dwarf the better warrior though.

How does everyone interpret the beserk skill, if you roll a 1 do you let the barbarian try again then next available turn or is that his only chance for the combat?

The going first/treasure pick is good for more competetive games but that kind of gameplay usually fails around level 4-5 when the heroes need to work very hard as a team to avoid being killed alot.

I always interpreted it as being he rolls the 1, does the damage and cannot test for beserk again until fresh monsters are places on the board, kind of a once per monster event affair. Likewise, once beserk he remains so until no monsters are left on the board.

[DelveLord]

>>How does everyone interpret the beserk skill<<

I keep rolling until he goes berserk during the combat. So, the Barbarian can potentially roll 1's several times turns during a combat. Once the Barbarian goes berserk, then the rolling stops. This berserk condition (+1 Attacks) remains in effect until the end of the combat. Next combat, repeat the procedure.

Also, for awhile I was making the roll at the start of the Barbarian's turn. But the card says to make the roll "before he attacks". So I changed it to make the roll right before he attacks, after he moves. If he doesn't attack during a turn, he doesn't get this roll.

[Alvena]

i don't get it.
When we played, barbarian was always put in the middle of the room with the 8 square around him free to receive monster to be smashed. and as he can do something like "death hit" ie: "coups mortel" he was getting a lot of kills.

[BigRob]

i don't get it.
When we played, barbarian was always put in the middle of the room with the 8 square around him free to receive monster to be smashed. and as he can do something like "death hit" ie: "coups mortel" he was getting a lot of kills.

This is certainly the case at level 1, but, once in the bigger league he lags behind everyone else with lacklustre stats, a poor skill list and no real special rules to speak of (Dwarfs and Elves have thier guild shops for example).

[Alvena]

ok, we never survived after lvl 5-6

[BigRob]

ok, we never survived after lvl 5-6

Hence the reason for looking over the rules and trying to make them better

The only time we survived over level 5 was in a campaign I ran instore which went on for a couple of years. 5+ players which meant the party would usually have at least one person alive after the initial round of killing.

We had a Brettonian Knight, Imperial Noble, Salty Seadog, Dwarf, Barbarian, Wizard and Elf who played every week plus drop ins from the Witch Hunter, Warrior Priest, Elf Noble, Ex Bloodbowl Player and anyone else who was in store and fancied joining in. They managed to kill a griffon and several other big baddies but when we stopped we tried a few fun fights. The bloodthirster took the party out without ever taking a wound.

Managed level 8 before it folded due to one of the better staff members returning from his management course a very changed man. All SG not currently sold were immediatly banned including space hulk and necromunda

[Inchpractice]

The going first/treasure pick is good for more competetive games but that kind of gameplay usually fails around level 4-5 when the heroes need to work very hard as a team to avoid being killed alot.

I always interpreted it as being he rolls the 1, does the damage and cannot test for beserk again until fresh monsters are places on the board, kind of a once per monster event affair. Likewise, once beserk he remains so until no monsters are left on the board.

Yes that is how we have been playing it although like many rules in quest it isn't 100% clear.

[Oakwolf]

The special rule on his card starts with "Each turn [...]". So you roll until you get a total of 6 (Roll+kill count). The disaster result (1) doesn't make you stop, it's just an epic fail. The only way you'll stop rolling is when you go berserk, or combat ends.

Anyway, after playing alot with the character, we've settled with

- Increases Weapon Skill to 4 by Level 2 (and then follows normal chart progression)
- + 1 Strenght at Level 6, which is a pretty useless level to begin with.
- + 1 on the ale house results (barbarian's "special" location)
- Berserk improved to +2 attacks at hero level and +3 attacks at Lord level
- His furs do not incur penalties if worn with chainmail.

Basically we compensate for the lack of value in his skills, the lack of a special location or magic items by increasing the prowess of the barbarian at levels he pales compared to others. He's one of the few characters to start with S4, so it's normal that he'd end up stronger than most. He doesn't have a special location, but the alehouse is pretty much where barbarians go.

The dwarf not only get alehouse bonus, but also better skills and a useful special location. As soon as they hit lvl 2, many characters get even much better than barbarians (having 2 attacks for example, and WS4/5), so we gave him 4 WS earlier. In the end-game, the barbarian continues to perform subpar, so we've improved the berserk ability to help it keep up.

[Eternus]

The special rule on his card starts with "Each turn [...]". So you roll until you get a total of 6 (Roll+kill count). The disaster result (1) doesn't make you stop, it's just an epic fail. The only way you'll stop rolling is when you go berserk, or combat ends.

Anyway, after playing alot with the character, we've settled with

- Increases Weapon Skill to 4 by Level 2 (and then follows normal chart progression)
- + 1 Strenght at Level 6, which is a pretty useless level to begin with.
- + 1 on the ale house results (barbarian's "special" location)
- Berserk improved to +2 attacks at hero level and +3 attacks at Lord level
- His furs do not incur penalties if worn with chainmail.

Basically we compensate for the lack of value in his skills, the lack of a special location or magic items by increasing the prowess of the barbarian at levels he pales compared to others. He's one of the few characters to start with S4, so it's normal that he'd end up stronger than most. He doesn't have a special location, but the alehouse is pretty much where barbarians go.

The dwarf not only get alehouse bonus, but also better skills and a useful special location. As soon as they hit lvl 2, many characters get even much better than barbarians (having 2 attacks for example, and WS4/5), so we gave him 4 WS earlier. In the end-game, the barbarian continues to perform subpar, so we've improved the berserk ability to help it keep up.

I like this, and will probably use it if you don't mind! After all these days a northman that keeps progressing along the path that all those living under the influence of the polar gate do, then he could end up as a Chaos Lord with Strength and Toughness of 5 and WS8!

[Oakwolf]

Of course, feel free to use those changes. In fact i encourage people to test it.

I've had much more fun with it with the changes. It's silly how a simple change of WS at lvl 2 can make the barbarian feel less gimped (as a precision, the change only affects level 2, so he keeps was 4 at lvl 3 and so on). This means he'll still end up at WS6 at the end of the chart, but by then, the berserk ability will make up for this very well.

As for the original stats, i assume they are closer to Marauder than Chaos Warriors.

[Eternus]

Of course, feel free to use those changes. In fact i encourage people to test it.

I've had much more fun with it with the changes. It's silly how a simple change of WS at lvl 2 can make the barbarian feel less gimped (as a precision, the change only affects level 2, so he keeps was 4 at lvl 3 and so on). This means he'll still end up at WS6 at the end of the chart, but by then, the berserk ability will make up for this very well.

As for the original stats, i assume they are closer to Marauder than Chaos Warriors.

Well, all Chaos Warriors begin life as Marauders though don't they...

[Necanthrope]

Well, all Chaos Warriors begin life as Marauders though don't they...

Not if they "defect" from the empire
I'm planning on using marauders to represent regular chaos warriors in WHQ and only using real chaos warriors to represent champions at the higher battle levels.

As for the Barbarian tweaks suggested here I think they are spot on. A little buff for his WS makes all the difference, and his strength really should increase at level 6.

[Eternus]

I have been considering some kind of low level Eye Of The Gods table for the Barbarian...? He gets certain 'bonuses' depending on how well he's doing during an adventure, but some could be good, some not so good.

[Oakwolf]

Well, i think there's some flexibility with the background of a chaos warrior.

Middenheimers going wrong could definitely fit the bill. As well, how about a brettonian knight being perverted by slaanesh. There is a need for a "regular" human fighter, too

[Eternus]

Having recently been re-reading a lot of the rules and the RP book, I have to ask the question 'is the Barbarian really that bad?' I mean, he gains luck and skills faster than some other characters, and has the potential for more starting wounds than most others, especially at higher levels, as well as having access to most equipment types. Fair enough he doesn't have his own special equipment as it were, but the benefits of being the party leader have already been noted here, so the only thing that is really a drawback is the Beserk rule. It's a pain to be sure when you roll a 1, but to be honest I think the simplest house rule for this is to say that every adjacent model takes a wound, not just Warriors, which I think is both more realistic and fairer. That alone would make me happy enough with the Barbarian without changing anything else.