Codex Salamanders: Work in progress

[Fixer]

http://www.perfect-design.co.uk/pdf/Salamanders.pdf

http://www.perfect-design.co.uk/pdf/special.pdf

A work in progress Codex for the Salamanders, the rules are geared towards making them specialist close quarter fighters, more focused on rapid fire/template weapons than long range fire and few bonuses that benefit assault and instead boost resilience.

Tough, better equipped, slow moving pyromaniacs.

Design notes:
The Salamanders are about the close range firefight. This means that they're afforded better equipment (such as improved bolters and twin linked flamers) and special rules for using close range weapons more effective/flexibility than Codex: Marines.

This gives them more up-range shooting power than regular marines, but when locked in sustained melee combat they are no better, or arguably worse due to their increased points cost.

One change made has to been to restrict Salamanders benefits to Salamanders style combat. While Codex: Space marines and Vulkan makes fast attack units more effective as they're most commonly fitted with Multimeltas) Salamanders here are benefiting in troops, elites and heavy support.

As Salamanders are also noted for the number of Devestators they have in their companies (Salamanders have roughly 2 Devestator squads for every 3 tactical squads.) they gain further access in the guise of Tactical devestators, mobile mid-range combat units who can also be tooled with heavy-flamers.

Speaking of heavy support, this codex wont be entirely balanced with C:SM for good reasons. Many of the overpriced units will be re-balanced to be effective choices, while still keeping in theme with the Overall Marine doctrine.

However, don't expect a Codex: Space Wolves, this wont just be 'Space Marines but better'

Special Characters still to come:

Chapter Master Tu'Shan
Leads from the front - can take Firedrake Terminators or Firedrake veterans as troops choices.
'That which does not kill me' Every wound Tu'Shan takes gives him +1 attack and +1 strength, as he redoubles his efforts.

Vulkan He'Stan
Same basic equipment as Codex: Sm, but now his rules gear him to granting the Salamander benefits to Fast Attack/Vehicle units and special rules for hunting the relics of Vulkan.

Chief Librarian Vel'cona
A cyborg librarian in life-support terminator armour. Cold hearted, likes to crush people with gravity.

Terminator Sergeant Preator
A specialist in Phalanx formations, makes storm shield terminator units
immovable.

Captain Drake
2nd Company Captain, prefers careful planning over haste. Sacrifices deployment and seizing the initiative for improved deepstrike/orbital bombardment.

Chaplain Elysius
Master of Sanctity, badass.

Brother Argos
Wondering if I should make rules for this guy, since he's hanging out on Bolter and Chainsword somewhere

[Eidre]

So what is the down side?

As far as I can tell, every unit in your 'Dex has better rules and better equipment than their equivalent in the SM codex, but without costing any more points. What balances out all of their advantages?

[Drakcore Bloodtear]

Wow thats powerful

It seems like your just adding unnecessary rules, like the Chaplins Liturgy of fortitude, doesn't seem to have any reasoning to it, why do Salamander Chaplins differ from standard ones?

I know your trying to create a sallies theme by upgrading their armour and equipment but you need to justify some points and not everything has to be labled with a special rule like superior Bolter

[Fixer]

No access to bikes/jump packs on characters. No combat tactics, units are priced slightly more expensively (improving on the space wolves theory of cheaper and better) fast attack get no benefits unless combined with Vulkan. All the upgrades are paid for. Tactical squads lose many long range options.

Devastator squad change was basically due to the marine one being overpriced. It's set up that a full unit has to be bought for the weapons.

[Fixer]

Wow thats powerful

It seems like your just adding unnecessary rules, like the Chaplins Liturgy of fortitude, doesn't seem to have any reasoning to it, why do Salamander Chaplins differ from standard ones?

Salamanders follow the promethean cult, seems right that the chaplains would espouse those virtues instead of hate.

To be fair, these special rules only really effect troops, elites and characters
only those units get eye and sacrificing melee attacks on your elites is going to make it a less valuable power than on tactical marines.

And then, only of benefit to some of those characters. The trick is finding the right cost for everything. A bolter With a reroll the 1s isn't that spectacular. The squads have been priced slightly more because of that.

The best way to judge the army on cost would be to make a list. See what you can get for your points happy to take suggestions with some points changes with list comparisons.

[Fixer]

Apologies for the previous short-sharp replies, was writing via iPhone.

Okay, example time here. Have my old regular Space Marine codex 1500 point list:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205309

and a new 1500 point list using this test Dex.

Librarian 125
Salamander hide, Combat shield, Artificer armor
Inner Fire, Fury of the Salamander

Firedrakes Terminators x5 235
All with Thunderhammer/Storm shield

Tactical Squad 265
Tactical Multimelta, Meltagun
Tech Adept, Comms armor
Thunderhammer
Rhino

Tactical Squad 220
Flamer, Tactical Multimelta
Rhino

Land Raider Redeemer 275
Re-enforced Ceramite
Pintle Multimelta

Scout Squad 175
4 scouts with BP/CCW
Sgts with combi-melta, powerfist
Storm with Multimelta

Devestator Squad x10 205
2 Lascannons
2 Missile Launchers

The additional points costs on units do tend to add up and cut into options.

[Fixer]

Special characters part 1 added to the first post.

[sean_scanlon2000]

well looks liek you gave them alot of new toys new options and didn't pay for any of them.... if your truly trying to make your own codex you need to have some balance to them... if your giving them 100 special rules then their points need to reflect that. your costs are a bit off. and yes while the fluff says that they spend more time on their armour and weapons ect that doesnt justify them having over powered rules. their prices need to be almost up 15-20% to justify half the upgrades your giving them all.


you look at the space marine book as well as wolves and angles even grey knights. yes they have lots of special rules and some stuff they pay for and other stuff they do not. thats the balance.

[Spokomo]

So, I am inclined to agree with the previous posts. However, I have some suggestions.

The Space Marine (Ultramarines) Codex is laid out so that you could deploy a full company with the use of one Force Organization. I think that this is one of the biggest things that sets the Sallies apart from the "Codex Chapters." As Sallies typically have 7 tactical squads, 2 assault squads and 3 devastator squads in a battle company, I had envisioned the Sallies having one less Fast Attack choice at the advantage of an additional Troops Selection.

I think it might be more appropriate for the salamanders to have *more* weapons and armor instead of better quality (with the exception of the characters like techmarines, chaplains, and the like). I like that you have given everyone access to thunder hammers, that fits with what I am saying, but the average salamander isn't necessarily the one who made it. The higher quality equipment seems a little much.

It seems like you have too many rules for Salamanders in general. They are still space marines after all. We aren't degenerate wolves or blood thirsty maniacs. No major gene-seed mutations. Remember in the Armageddon Codex when the Sallies had Initiative 3? Crap! Right? I mean we are still Space Marines, the Emperor's Finest, the Angels of Death! So what if we are a bit more bulky than other Space Marines? That doesn't make us Guardsmen on steroids! Back on point... what about an Initiative of 3.5? Counting as a 4 but always going after the 4 and before the 3 in initiative order.

That is all that I can think of at the moment. I am not trying to nit-pick or say that I know better, just my two-cents.

[Fixer]

Update coming tommorrow sometime, have the last of the special characters and some changes

Thanks for your input Spokomo. I've actually been thinking about the I3 thing ( as well as removing the 'can fire rapid fire and charge' rules to make things simpler ).

The one drawback I've found with I3 or even I3.5 is that it immediately makes initiative striking weapons pointless since you're now going after the I4 majority of the universe. This was a killer for Salamanders back in 3rd ed when you had powersword duels between sergeants and captains. Also why all those chaplains had their free thunderhammer (still have that one on my display shelf)

Also there's Jaws of the World Wolf, not directly a Salamanders thing, but bleh... it'll be a while before that's written out of the game

I'm going to have a brainstorming session about some kind of 'sturdy' rule that acts as drawback for the Salamanders but doesn't cripple the options like the old codex.