Warriors of Chaos list

[mattjgilbert]

This is already linked via the army list sticky thread but to the word doc version buried in a thread on the Mantic Fanatics site. I've converted it to pdf for reposting here and I'll update the sticky link to point here instead.

EDIT: 29/07/2011 Updated to v1.5
EDIT: 23/09/2011 Updated to v2.0 - updated to v2.0 KoW rules and list format. Also added Chariots.
EDIT: 28/03/2012 Updated to v2.1 - incorporated feedback on unit stats and consistency.
EDIT: 09/09/2012 Updated to v2.2 - updated in-line with v3 points.

[AlexHolker]

If nothing else, the Whim of the Gods rule either needs to do more or it needs to be called something else. You can't call a rule "Whim of the Gods" and have it do less than just being human.

[mattjgilbert]

What do you mean, "less than just being human"?

[AlexHolker]

What do you mean, "less than just being human"?

I mean that the Whim of the Gods rule is strictly worse than the Age of Humanity rule in one of your other army lists.

[mattjgilbert]

That's one of Nel's rules

I wan't really comparing lists against each other really, however I don't see it as being an issue. The Chaos gods are more picky perhaps

It can easily be changed though of course. Ideas?

[rodmillard]

Maybe I'm missing something, but the Exulted champion has At 8 basic, and can take a mount option for 40 points which gives him Sp 8 and At 6 - is this a typo, or is the mounted version MEANT to have fewer attacks than the guy on foot? EDIT: If so you may want to lower the points for the upgrade...

[mattjgilbert]

No that will be a typo....

[Chicken Pig]

Cheers for posting these lists up Matt, I think that we should cut the authors of such lists a bit of slack. These are made in their own time and to help out other gamers, they are not intended to be faultless and perfectly balanced lists. They allow those of us with other armies to play Kings Of War, and ultimately if that means more people supporting Mantic and their games such lists should be welcomed rather than picked apart by pedantry. I am sure the authors of such lists will welcome suggestions/ want typos and errors to be pointed out but maybe with a touch more humility.

[Baragash]

Do Forsaken get command in WHF?

Also, Hellsplitter:
a) where's it's CC stats?
b) isn't the Possessed rule irrelevant as units always triple attacks vs War Machines regardless of arc?

[mattjgilbert]

I'll do a new version soon based on the comments above.

[rodmillard]

Cheers for posting these lists up Matt, I think that we should cut the authors of such lists a bit of slack. These are made in their own time and to help out other gamers, they are not intended to be faultless and perfectly balanced lists. They allow those of us with other armies to play Kings Of War, and ultimately if that means more people supporting Mantic and their games such lists should be welcomed rather than picked apart by pedantry. I am sure the authors of such lists will welcome suggestions/ want typos and errors to be pointed out but maybe with a touch more humility.

???

If that's the way my post came across it certainly wasn't my intention - I have a great deal of respect for the guys that do this, since I have neither the time nor the staying power to do it myself (although I suppose the lack of staying power is at least partly because all my WFB armies have Mantic equivalents - might be different if I collected something they don't already cover)

I was actually trying to put some humour in there to make it look less like I was being pedantic...

[mattjgilbert]

Updated to v1.4 incorporating feedback.

And the typo was fixed

[Baragash]

Hellspitter: I don't like it because
a) I considered breath myself, but I don't see why it should get a gimped range vs other WM
b) although I said I think it should be written as a monster, it should still be in the WM slot (which is why I've not done anything for it myself) as it sort of shafts WoC in comparison to other armies in terms of selecting it
c) Don't like the Possessed rule, sure I know there's a desire for flavour, but it doesn't need it

Tribesmen: well in WHF they get the option for LA & Shields/Flails/GW, so perhaps there should be a Def 4+ vs Def 3+ & CS choice?

Chosen: 10 Warriors = 10 Attacks but 10 Chosen = 7 Attacks? 20 Warriors = 20 Attacks but 20 Chosen = 14 Attacks?

Army wide rule: perhaps here you could have a choice between Undivided and the 4 Gods which determines your rule? Then for a mixed God list you simply pick from 2 WoC lists (so you have to have a God-specific Solid for other God stuff)?

[TywinLannister]

One thing I've noticed in some KOW lists is making dice rolls in your opponent's turn which shouldn't happen, as it goes against the ethos of the game's current flow of I do everything in my turn and you do everything in your turn.

Example here is the Will of the Gods rule.

Maybe something along the lines of

"Whenever a player makes a nerve check for this unit, if a double is rolled, remove a damage counter from this unit."

Or some such thing, just keep your die rolls away from your opponents' turns.

My 2 English pennys.

[mattjgilbert]

Hellspitter: I don't like it because
a) I considered breath myself, but I don't see why it should get a gimped range vs other WM
b) although I said I think it should be written as a monster, it should still be in the WM slot (which is why I've not done anything for it myself) as it sort of shafts WoC in comparison to other armies in terms of selecting it
c) Don't like the Possessed rule, sure I know there's a desire for flavour, but it doesn't need it

Not being a Warengine means it can move and fire which negates the range issue you have. Possessed I can drop easily enough. The flavour then comes from the fact the warmachine is really a monster and more flexible than a static firing platform.

Tribesmen: well in WHF they get the option for LA & Shields/Flails/GW, so perhaps there should be a Def 4+ vs Def 3+ & CS choice?

hmmm... do we want the whole army having access to CS? OK, I'll add something.

Chosen: 10 Warriors = 10 Attacks but 10 Chosen = 7 Attacks? 20 Warriors = 20 Attacks but 20 Chosen = 14 Attacks?

That was the same in all the previous versions and you didn't complain then I'll review it

Army wide rule: perhaps here you could have a choice between Undivided and the 4 Gods which determines your rule? Then for a mixed God list you simply pick from 2 WoC lists (so you have to have a God-specific Solid for other God stuff)?

The trouble is I don't want to make things EXACTLY like the WHFB versions of the army. Otherwise you might as well just play WHFB...

The idea of the list is to get close so that players with WHFB armies can start playing KoW easily. I like it being generic and not GW fluff specific.

One thing I've noticed in some KOW lists is making dice rolls in your opponent's turn which shouldn't happen, as it goes against the ethos of the game's current flow of I do everything in my turn and you do everything in your turn.

Example here is the Will of the Gods rule.

Maybe something along the lines of

"Whenever a player makes a nerve check for this unit, if a double is rolled, remove a damage counter from this unit."

Or some such thing, just keep your die rolls away from your opponents' turns.

My 2 English pennys.

Good point. I'll change the rule to something else.


v1.5 on its way!

[mattjgilbert]

And v1.5 is with us...

[Robert]

I like it. Seems balanced.

Though I doubt I would ever take either the Chaos Forsaken Troop, 120 points for an average of 7 attacks is perhaps too expensive compared to the Chaos Chosen Troop.

And larger packs of hounds would be nice, but perhaps unfair...

[mattjgilbert]

So should the Chosen go down in points. 100 perhaps?

Larger packs would lead to having them spammed (potentially) for uber cheap core units (which is why I got rid of them). Of course they could have a rule stating that they didn't count as a core/solid unit so didn't unlock anything. What do you think?

EDIT: On the Mantic Fanatics' site, someone asked for Chaos Chariots to be added. I'll put those in the list too.

[mattjgilbert]

Updated to v2.0 KoW rules and list format. Added Chariots.

Please let me know if there are any typos or mistakes.

[Fyrebyrd]

Ok Matt,
What happened with the Exulted Champ's Mount Attack mod?

Options: Can ride a Chaos mount, gaining Sp 8 and At (+40 pts)

What do you want to do here?