Help with Lizardmen 2500 pts.

[Gharnukk]

Fantasy Army: Lizardmen

Greetings. I'm about to start a Lizardmen army again. I used to play Lizardmen about thirteen years ago so I really need help with a 8th edition list.

This was my first list, no Idea if it is competitive.

Slann: Lore of life, Two disciplines(?).
Skink priest: Ancient stegadon with engine of the gods.

40 Saurus warriors with spears
20 Saurus warriors with handweapons
10 Skink skirmishers with blowpipes
10 Skink skirmishers with blowpipes
16 Skinks with javelins (2 kroxigors*)

3 Terradon riders (Brave)
20 Temple guards
2 Kroxigors*

2 Salamader hunting packs

Feel free to discuss, share your lists or experience with tough Lizardmen opponent. Thank you.

[Kai Itzah]

Ok, my personal opinion is that you should cut out the 40 and 20 Saurus and make two units of 30. 20 Saurus aren't competitive, but even without the 40, you can still scare your opponent with two thirty. Seeing as you can go into a Horde formation with the thirty, you save yourself 40 points (-spears). I assume you're going FC. That is massively important. At least SB and Musician are, I don't use the Champion on my Saurus to save points, but it's all preference.

If you are going with Life, take Mystery, then I'd take Cogitation, seeing as you don't have any other defense against magic.

Don't take the Brave on the Terradons. I think Terradons are highly important in this list, you might want to get another unit of 3. While some people would recommend Chameleon Skinks, when getting rid of warmachines is this dire (you've got a stegadon, they have a big, shiny, glittering target on them) then you can't rely on Chameleons over Terradons (when I take an EotG I actually take 20 Chameleons and 6 Terradons, but that's at 3000).

I assume the Krox you are listing models you have. With the Saurus and Temple Guard I don't think you need anymore than the smaller 16/2 mosquito. But if you can find the 190, it might be worth getting them. Reducing the Saurus to 25 won't save you points because then I'd heavily suggest giving them spears.

Salamanders are good. I run the same number, but people like to spam them, don't spam them. You don't really need to anyway due to Burning Alignment.

Other than that, it's a strong list, not super hyper competitive. I like it.

EDIT: For reference, at 2400 I run a Slann BSB with BC, FR, Divine Plaque, Cupped Hands; Tetto'eko; 30 Saurus with Musician and SB; 22 S/2K; 26 Cohorts (for Tet); 2x 10 Skirmishers; 26 TG (FC); 2x 6 Chamo; 3 Terradons; 2x Salamanders. At 2500...I'd probably run 3 more Terradons, or an extra 2 Cohorts and Kroxigor along with 3 extra Chameleon Skinks

Oh and make your Slann the BSB, even if you don't give him any banner.

[Gharnukk]

Thank you for the reply. I dont have any models yet. So nothing is written in stone.
Thats one of the reasons I need help with the list so I dont buy a bunch of crappy units.

[thesheriff]

Ranked up skinks need to be in BIG units. Not sure 20 is gonna do much.

I prefer chameleons to terradons.

Make sure the salamanders are separate units.

Make the saurus even, both with HW/S.

Engines are alot of points. The guy on top won't do much with a slaan dominating magic. I'd rather save the points to spend on the slaan, and get a normal stegadon. Actually, unless you have 2+ stegadons, they tend to done quote quickly. I'd be tempted to drop the steg all together and purchase the following;

* cupped hands, bane head, bsb on the Slaan
* The aforementioned chameleon skinks (10 of them)
* More salamanders! There pro!

Hope that helps.

Thesheriff

[Kai Itzah]

Do what thesheriff tells you if you want to win tournaments.

Although I'd actually disagree with him on a couple of things on the tournament winning front *shock!* *awe!*

With an army with two massive units of Saurus and one unit of TG, you don't need another hammer. Small-sized skink units are useful for low-cost infantry, to annoy your enemy.

Obviously I disagree with thesheriff over Chameleons over Terradons (only in this particular circumstance, I actually run Chameleons over Terradons, but that's because I don't run an EotG until 3000), but he's right, you do really need more Warmachine hunters either way, otherwise, although it will draw a lot of fire from your main blocks, you will be left with a smoking husk of 355pts.

Speaking of which, don't make your Skink Priest more than Level 1. Although I think that the whole "Slann is uber dominates all magic phases huzzah" idea is just sensationalism (look at double Grey Seer armies) you don't want your Priest anymore than Level 1, preferably with no magic items. It's not because these won't be of use, when it comes down to it you can channel, and if you're running Life then being able to cast Iceshard Blizzard (Heavens) to protect your Stegadon will come in very handy; it's because you want to put as few points as possible into that target.

But like I say, apart from those things, all those item combinations, more Salamanders, etc. etc. they will win you tournaments. I would not direct you away from them if that's what you're interested in.

I'd suggest something for you to drop for the WM hunters, but it really all depends on which direction you want to take your army.

[Necromancy Black]

I'm with thesheriff, an EotG isn't going to add a whole lot to anything. You got anvil units in your saurus and your Slann is the one with the magic. I'd rather take 2 skink priests instead of the EotG, making sure each has the -1 to hit signiture spell from lore of heavens (do NOT underestimate how much a -1 to hit on the enemy helps out saurus. I actually run a list with 3 priests spamming this easy to cast spell and it is amazingly affective. Great way of getting the enemy to waste disple dice too)

Charm skinks are great for warmachine hunting. Don't forget as skirmishers they can march and shoot. The same goes for salamanders, who I also say take some more of.

Ranked skinks really do need to be quite large units to be affective.

2 units of 30 saurus are fantastic. Spears stop you using hand weapon now, and you already get an extra rank of fighting this edition so paying for spears isn't always worth it (becomes a personal choice)

[Gharnukk]

Thanks guys, that was super Bought three Battalions. Not sure where I stand at the Chameleons/Terradons. I really like the Kroxigor models but if they are to no use I guess that I can drop them aswell as the small skink unit. Same goes for the stegadon, I just like it Not preferably with EotG, but is the double blowpipes or the giant bow better?

[Kai Itzah]

People have got to stop seeing the EotG as a Stegadon with a priest on top of it. It is an Ancient Stegadon (same STWA) and for 15 extra points you get to burn your enemy to death, give your allies a 5+ Ward Save or aid your Slann or Priest (he still does know Iceshard Blizzard no matter what!) in casting. It may not be meta, but as long as you're appropriately protecting it, it isn't a bad choice.

I still argue that ranked skinks do not need to be large to be effective. Sure, if you're planning them to fight their own battles then of course, but with a 12" march, you are outmanoeuvring most units in the game and choosing when to flank or rear charge a unit that has made the bad decision of going head-to-head with 30 Saurus. And Krox are what give Skinks their punch, Skinks on their own are just awful. Unless I suppose you're trying to use them as a horde, but Lizardmen aren't really a horde army...

If you do choose to drop the EotG, run Chameleons over Terradons. Don't drop the S/K, they are extremely useful if you know how to use them.

[Vaiuri]

I run a Life Slann and an Engine at 2000 points and often find the Skink ends up with nothing to do other than Scroll an enemy spell and keep the Engine running. The ward save and explosion are both great from the Engine, but I dont face ANY warmachines in the group I regularly play in. On the occasions where my Slann fluffs a magic roll I've been grateful of having Iceshard Blizzard as a great standby spell.

For the sake for coolness, running a Steg is very fun and makes your army look a lot more interesting! Picking units that some may consider 'sub optimal' isn't always the end of the world as it can make you re-think your game and find new ways of using those units you might not have thought of otherwise.

I think its a solid list - I prefer Cham Skinks over Terradons because I have an issue with Terradon models not ranking properly, falling over, getting in the way etc... and my Skinks have a great track record against the few War Machines I have come across - no NOT underestimate the power of poison on War Machines

I agree that you should split the Saurus into 2 even groups. I like to run with spears, but I see the worth of HW&S for the survivability.

If you want to include Krox in your army, pop them in your Skink unit, but dont expect them to handle combat as well as Saurus do - use them cleverly and they will surprise you

I've been using Life on my Slann from day one, I'm going to switch up to Light for my next few games and see how things work out. When you are just starting out Life will mean you can correct a few mistakes and makes your army a bit more forgiving if you make a bad call - its a GREAT Lore (perhaps too great?), and be prepared for your gaming group to cotton on to dispelling Throne of Vines pretty early on

I also run my Salamanders in units of 2, simply because misfires have taught me that Skink Handlers always die in 3's

Let us know how you get on!

[Gharnukk]

Never got this project going (life got in the way). But this time around I might just make it

[Gharnukk]

Just bought:

1 Slann Mage-priest
1 Saurus Oldblood
1 Skinkpriest on stegadon
1 Skinkpriest
36 Saurus warriors (6 glued)
36 Skinks (24 glued, 18 with Javelin and Shield, 6 with Blowpipe)
20 Temple Guards
8 Cold one Riders
3 Kroxigors (1 glued)
6 Chameleon Skinks
2 Salamander Hunting Parties

Any suggestions how to divide the Skinks?