Tyranid Codex concervative revision

[Panzer MkIV]

I've put up revised versions of HQ, Troops, Fast Attack and Heavy Support

A small overview of what has changed:

HQ

- Swarmlord has been dropped from the list but his weapons and most of his abilities have found a new home as upgrades for the Hive Tyrant
- Tweaked some of the Psychic powers
- Added the option to take Hive Guard as a Hive Tyrant bodyguard in limited circumstances.

Troops

- Shadow in the Warp has been tweaked so it now can target embarked psykers
- Deathspitter has gone back to it's roots and is now a blast weapon again

Fast Attack

- Harpy's toughness has been lowered again to 5

Heavy Support

- Deathspitters on a Carnifex has increased in cost due to the upgraded stats of the weapon

A thank you to Azimath, Thrax and Ghoulio for their feedback

HAVING SOME FUN WITH THE REVISION:

the "classic" swarm 1500pts

HQ

Hive tyrant 225 pts
Heavy venom cannon, Scything talons, armoured shell, flesh hooks, Embodiment of the Hive Mind, Alien Cunning

2 Tyrant guard 120pts
Lash whips, frag spines

TROOPS

3 Tyranid Warriors 115pts
Scything talons, 2 deathspitters, 1 venom cannon

3 Tyranid Warriors 165pts
Scything talons, Dual boneswords, Leaping, Flesh hooks, Toxin sacs

10 Genestealers 208pts
Broodlord with Scything talons, flesh hooks

20 Termagants 100 pts

20 Termagants 100pts
spike rifles

20 Hormaguants 180pts
Leaping, Adrenalin sacs

HEAVY SUPPORT

1 Carnifex 180pts
Heavy Venom cannon, Armoured shell

2 Hive Guards 100pts

NIDZILLA 2000pts

HQ

Hive Tyrant 215pts
Heavy Venom cannon, TL Devourers with brainleech worms, Armoured shell

2 Hive Guards 120pts

TROOPS

20 Termagants 100pts

20 Termagants 100pts

1 Tervigon 195pts
Cluster spines, adrenal glands, toxin sacs, catalyst

1 Tervigon 195pts
Cluster spines, adrenal glands, toxin sacs, catalyst

FAST ATTACK

1 Harpy 175pts
TL Heavy venom cannon, TL venom cannon

HEAVY SUPPORT

3 Carnifexes 390pts

Trygon Prime 250pts
adrenal glands

Tyrannofex 250pts

Mid weight championship 1700pts

HQ

Tyranid prime 120pts
Venom cannon, Dual boneswords, regeneration

ELITES

2 Zoanthropes 160pts
Mycetic spore

3 Pyrovores 175pts
Mycetic spore

TROOPS

3 Tyranid Warriors 115pts
Scything talons, 2 deathspitters, 1 venom cannon

3 Tyranid Warriors 115pts
Scything talons, 2 deathspitters, 1 venom cannon

10 Genestealers 208pts
Broodlord with Scything talons, flesh hooks

20 Hormaguants 180pts
Leaping, Adrenalin sacs

20 Hormaguants 180pts
Leaping, Adrenalin sacs

20 Termagants 100pts
spike rifles

FAST ATTACK

3 Raveners 99pts
Rending claws, flesh hooks

HEAVY SUPPORT

2 Hive Guards 100 pts

2 Hive Guards 100 pts

1 Biovore 45pts

[Dreachon]

Liking the changes you made, especially love hwat you have done for the carnifex and the pyrovore, ( pleasant surprise to see it having 2 modes of fire although in my own version I didn't go for melta but pyro-acid, giving it a str 5 hit with 2D6 penetration).

Ony thing I would suggest with regards to the carnifex is to alter the crushing claws or make them cheaper, their still the same as in the codex and a terrible option for a fex.

The improved deathspitters for the carnifex is also a great idea.

[rahtep888]

I've only read the HQ as of yet, but I love the option to take Hive Guard for a shooty Tyrant and also love some of the new upgrades.

[Delta Echo]

I usually cringe when I read fandexs (especially Nids) because people usually go too far overboard with their improvements / cost cutting. However, for the most part, I must admit I like what I'm reading here. The majority of your tweeks seem to be logical, balanced, and for issues that really need changing.

The key is don't go overboard. It is surprisingly easy for a few moderate to minor changes in a dex to snowball into something that ends up being overpowering (why do you think so many people believe in GW's codex powercreep).

Don't get me wrong, while I personally dislike the direction that the GW Tyranid 5th ed codex took, it isn't as worthless as a lot of the net nerd-rage would have you believe. It probably is the worse written, and powered, 5th ed codex, but unless you are a diehard tourney player, Nids are still viable for casual to semi-competitive games. I don't do Tourneys at all, but enjoy extremely competitve games and have done well (75% wins or better) against most of the "top tier" codexes. What I see your dex doing is just bumping us up marginally but enough where Nids are in line with the rest of the 5th edition dexs.

Every thought of applying to GW? Outside of Phil K. they doesn't seem like they have many authors who know how to write xeno dexs...

[Panzer MkIV]

Liking the changes you made, especially love hwat you have done for the carnifex and the pyrovore, ( pleasant surprise to see it having 2 modes of fire although in my own version I didn't go for melta but pyro-acid, giving it a str 5 hit with 2D6 penetration).

Ony thing I would suggest with regards to the carnifex is to alter the crushing claws or make them cheaper, their still the same as in the codex and a terrible option for a fex.

The improved deathspitters for the carnifex is also a great idea.

Thanks for the reply

I've asked a friend of mine to use his patented Theoryhammer skills to determine how effective Crushing claws are in close combat compared to Dual scythes and single scythes. Once I have those results I can determine a fair price for them. Just bear in mind that's still a couple of weeks away: he has other priorities atm

I've only read the HQ as of yet, but I love the option to take Hive Guard for a shooty Tyrant and also love some of the new upgrades.

Glad you liked it

I usually cringe when I read fandexs (especially Nids) because people usually go too far overboard with their improvements / cost cutting. However, for the most part, I must admit I like what I'm reading here. The majority of your tweeks seem to be logical, balanced, and for issues that really need changing.

The key is don't go overboard. It is surprisingly easy for a few moderate to minor changes in a dex to snowball into something that ends up being overpowering (why do you think so many people believe in GW's codex powercreep).

Don't get me wrong, while I personally dislike the direction that the GW Tyranid 5th ed codex took, it isn't as worthless as a lot of the net nerd-rage would have you believe. It probably is the worse written, and powered, 5th ed codex, but unless you are a diehard tourney player, Nids are still viable for casual to semi-competitive games. I don't do Tourneys at all, but enjoy extremely competitve games and have done well (75% wins or better) against most of the "top tier" codexes. What I see your dex doing is just bumping us up marginally but enough where Nids are in line with the rest of the 5th edition dexs.

Every thought of applying to GW? Outside of Phil K. they doesn't seem like they have many authors who know how to write xeno dexs...

I'm not a competitve player myself and mostly use units I like the models of. Which in this case it's the entire line But even from a casual POV I wouldn't put a Carnifex, Pyrove or Lictor in my lists no matter how good they look: they just suck under the current rules (IMO) hence the revision.

And thanks for that compliment but if I would ever work as a games designer for GW there'll propably be hate treads of me on this site on a regular basis because my quality of fiction makes Mat Ward's fluff look like Shakespare

[Vipoid]

This looks like a very good revision. I only wished GW had had the foresight to do their own.

Anyway, just a few thoughts:

Firstly, I agree with what ghoulio said, in that regeneration should work on a 5+ at least. I won't deny that the current regeneration has occasiaonally been useful, but for an ability that costs up to 30 points, it really doesn't pull its weight. At the moment, the cance of it actually helping are far too slim. Alternatively, you could perhaps make it 6+ base, but give synapse creatures (and MCs in synapse range) regneration on a 5+.

My other suggestion is that Hive Tyrants should have access to the Catalyst and Onslaught powers. The ability to direct the swarm forward and through enemy fire should reside with the Hive Tyrant, not a random spawning-engine that probably shouldn't exist at all.

I'd also suggest that it starts 10/15 pts cheaper with 2 sets of scything talons, and that BS+LW is a 10/15 pt upgrade. Otherwise you end up paying about 10-15 points too much if you swap out the BS+LW.

Aside from that though, I do rather like your tyrant, although I would have kept it at WS8, considering its still-hefty price tag. It's an interesting idea to be able to give the tyrant some or all of the swarmlord powers, even if it's weapons aren't quite as good. I particularly like the Swarmlord upgrade - partially because it's exactly what tyrants need atm, and partially because it's an ability the swarmlord *should* have had.


As an aside (I'm not suggesting this as a change), it would be nice to be able to give my Tyranid Prime some sort of invulnerable save - I really hate getting hit with power- (or worse - force-) weapons, with no possability of saving against them.

[Gaargod]

Love most of the changes. Perhaps though:

Tyrants with Bs3 seems a bit low to me? Maybe include an option to buy Bs4?

Your change to Synapse regarding No Retreat is... well, I find it a little arbitrary, to be honest. Halving No Retreat helps the problem, but it's still rather inefficient - it also means that scenarios where frankly you should be taking damage, you avoid a lot of it.
Why not instead: If you outnumber your opponent by a ratio of 2:1 or greater, you take no damage at all from No Retreat.
That surely represents that even if the enemy is killing you left right and centre, they're still not able to start trapping you. Makes horde units far more efficient at tarpits. I don't think it actually needs to be linked to Synapse at all, either.

Speaking of horde units, hormagaunts should be able to buy Without Number - they're just as numerous as termagants in the fluff. Same for Rippers.
Moreover, Without Number needs to be slightly edited. Instead of doing it whenever they're dead, copy the Send in the Next Wave rule from Commander Chenkov in the IG codex. The principal difference is that you can choose to delete the unit at any time and recycle - it stops opponents leaving a squad on very low strength in order to not have them recycle. Possibly put a limit on it (i.e. they have to be below half strength to recycle) to prevent abuse.