New Ogre Rumours

[unheilig]

I WAS prepared to drop a huge chunk of change on the ogres, and now i am very reluctant.

The rumors are causing more worry than excitement now.

[Kyte]

Just a few people (remember this is warseer) beginning to go bonkers over a rumour is not nessarily a sign of a general tendency towards rumours causing more worry than excitement. My advice is drop away. I for one am excited no matter what, and wont pass judgement before having read the book and played at least 10 games with different builds.

Also, I am sure people here are mainly just voicing their initiate feelings towards new info, and it comes out harsher than after a second thought.

BRING IT ON!

[Poncho160]

After umming and arring over whether or not to start a fantasy army and if I did what army to go for (soooooo many choices), I am very tempted to give Ogres a go.

[Harry]

Its much like Wolfy McWolfenstein the Wolf riding a Wolf whilst wielding Wolf Weapons. Well, except for the names. But, there is a limit to what some people can accept, even in a fantasy setting. Cats being used as mounts is a bit silly. Cats being used as mounts by _Ogres_ is very silly indeed, especially when the previous book goes into how dense and heavy they are. Throw in the fact that there is another, established precedent of things Ogres could ride (which, as its essentially a prehistoric wooly rhinocerous, and is big, strong and heavy in its own right, and thus less likely to cross the line), and it becomes even more difficult to accept.

Cats not being keen to be ridden aside for a moment .... which is a fair point.

Your wooly rhino weighed in at 1000-2000 lbs.
Your South American Sabre-tooth also weighed in at over 1000 lbs.
They brought down wooly mammoths quite literally for breakfast.
They were huge.

This is a 6ft bloke and an 800lb Liger ... Imagine something half as big again.

[Lord Inquisitor]

Ha! You just beat me there Harry. I was going to use that exact same photo.

[Kyte]

I agree. Gigantic Ice-Age-feline inspired fantasy monsters ridden by Ogres? Awsome sauce in my book, especially if done as nicely as recent GW plastic releases.

And as already mentioned, you could still use Rhinox Riders as count-as if you don't like the models. It's not the end of the world folks. Could even see some less seriuos gamers with a sense of humor converting up a He-Maneater

BRING IT ON!

[Kronos]

This is a 6ft bloke and an 800lb Liger ... Imagine something half as big again.

A 9 Ft Bloke ?

[GodlessM]

Indeed, or indeed anyone else who has a glimmer. I'm rather curious as to whats up with this release.

I'm not holding my breath for much; looks how close the thise month's release it was before we found out anything.

[eastern barbarian]

hmm, apparently new cavalry units not really cats, although a BIT similar at the first sight... that's all I managed to find out so far.
Also some new banner for close combat that sounds really good, but again no more details than that.

[Gooner]

Just because we might not get a rhinox kit doesnt mean they wont be in the book?

Judging from recent releases we can expect ~4 plastic releases and maybe 3-4 single models. So if we got yetees, giant monster, scrapplauncher, and one more that seems to be a mystery between two things.

Also note that if correct and there is precedence the giant beast may bave a character in the set that can be put on a base.

[Harry]

@Gooner that sounds about right to me.
With favorite being the mystery Cavalry kit for the 4th kit.
What's the other possibility?

hmm, apparently new cavalry units not really cats, although a BIT similar at the first sight... that's all I managed to find out so far.

Mmmmm
'not really a cat' but a bit like a cat.
A bit like the the mammoth is not really a mammoth but a cross between a Mammoth and a bantha.
A warhammer version of a Smilodon would be a cross between a Smilodon and .....

... Appa.

[verydarkshadow]

Mmmmm
'not really a cat. A bit like the the mammoth is not really a mammoth but a cross between a Mammoth and a bantha. A warhammer version of a Smilodon would be a cross between a Smilodon and a .....

... Appa.

So- its a giant pug?

[meowser]

I sense a pumbagor moment in the making. hopefully the models will be nicer :P

[Dooppie]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...mmoetklein.jpg

seems more wait and see in the next white dwarf too watch the mammox

[Scammel]

You aren't actually arguing that the herbivores only became large because the predators in the region might be even larger, are you? Because that sounds to me like logic got together with cause and effect and the three of them formed a suicide pact.

You'll note I never said it was the only reason, but that's how evolution works. If a particular predator becomes more dangerous (perhaps by growing larger), its' prey will evolve to make it's life harder (perhaps by growing larger still), resulting in an evolutionary arms-race. I've known that since I was about 10, so please pick up a science book before making comments like that again.

[Poncho160]

You'll note I never said it was the only reason, but that's how evolution works. If a particular predator becomes more dangerous (perhaps by growing larger), its' prey will evolve to make it's life harder (perhaps by growing larger still). I've known that since I was about 10, so please pick up a science book before making comments like that again.

Please read a few natural history books and books about evolution before stating stuff like this, because what you have just stated is completly wrong and is not how evolution works at all.

Speices do not evolve to become bigger and harder just because they are getting hunted. Generally a natural equillibrium is met between prey and hunter or the prey speices is just plain wiped out. This happened to a very large amount of speices. When the Europeans started exploring the planet and brought with them European speices of animal, especially rats, dogs, wierdly rabbits whole swathes of creatures that had no natural predators were made extinct.

Not that we can apply natural history to the warhammer world though!

[Scammel]

Speices do not evolve to become bigger and harder just because they are getting hunted.

No, but it is certainly a facet of why animals evolve. I'm aware of and agree with everything you said, but predators DO evolve to better catch their prey and herbivores DO evolve in order to prevent this. The equilibrium you mentioned is achieved because this happens at the same rate, not because they somehow decide it's better to maintain balance and not evolve.

[Harry]

You are both right:

Theory #1: Dinosaur size was fueled by vegetation.

During the Mesozoic Era--which stretched from the beginning of the Triassic period, 250 million years ago, to the extinction of the dinosaurs at the end of the Cretaceous period, 65 million years ago--atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide were much higher than they are today. If you've been following the global warming debate, you'll know that increased carbon dioxide is directly correlated with temperature--meaning the global climate was much warmer millions of years ago than it is today.

This combination of high levels of carbon dioxide (which plants recycle as food) and high temperatures meant that the prehistoric world was matted with all kinds of vegetation--plants, trees, mosses, etc. Like kids at an all-day dessert buffet, sauropods may have evolved to giant sizes simply because there was a surplus of nourishment. This would also explain why certain tyrannosaurs and large theropods got so big; a 50-pound carnivore wouldn't have stood much of a chance against a 50-ton plant eater.

(However theory 1 is not 100% accurate .... While this may make the Jurassic seem like a time of plenty, which would neatly explain gigantism, it has actually been shown that the diet of the sauropods was nutrient-poor. So why would they grow so big if their diet was so poor? Actually, modern megaherbivores provide an explanation: the larger an animal is, the larger digestive system it has. The larger the digestive system, the longer it can digest its food, making use of poorer browse or graze. The sauropods had immense guts acting like fermentation chambers which extracted all the needed nutrients from plentiful but nutrient-poor plants the other dinosaurs could not exploit. By tapping into an otherwise unused food resource allowed them to thrive, even though it meant growing into a humongous size.)

Theory #2: Hugeness in dinosaurs was a form of self-defense.

If Theory #1 strikes you as a bit simplistic, your instincts are correct: the mere availability of huge amounts of vegetation doesn't entail the evolution of giant creatures who can swallow it down to the last shoot. Evolution works along multiple paths, and the drawbacks of dinosaur gigantism (such as slow speed and the need for limited population size) can easily outweigh its benefits in terms of food-gathering.

That said, some paleontologists think gigantism conferred an evolutionary advantage on the dinosaurs that possessed it: for example, a jumbo-sized hadrosaur like Shantungosaurus would have been virtually immune to predation. (This theory also lends some credence to the idea that Tyrannosaurus Rex scavenged for its food--say, by happening on the body of an Ankylosaurus that died of disease or old age--rather than actively hunting it down.)

(In simplistic evolutionary terms the small, and weak got eaten and the big and strong survived to have big, strong offspring)

[Ludaman]

Way to ruin Jurassic Park with science Harry...

[Scammel]

Cheers for the additional clarification Harry, I don't think we were really in disagreement anyway. One last point:

This combination of high levels of carbon dioxide (which plants recycle as food) and high temperatures meant that the prehistoric world was matted with all kinds of vegetation--plants, trees, mosses, etc. Like kids at an all-day dessert buffet, sauropods may have evolved to giant sizes simply because there was a surplus of nourishment.

This hardly applies to the MoM, making the second theory more relevant IMO.