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Thread: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

  1. #1

    Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    You have no idea how good it feels now that my favorite army, which I started playing around 2002, is no longer called "Witch Hunters." With the upcoming release of the White Dwarf Sisters of Battle codex, the Adepta Sororitas takes its rightful place in the army's titular role.

    At this point in time, the Bestiary of our codex is set to be released next week, though some have seen a leaked copy of the list. We know a lot about the units and their special rules, but we know nothing about their points costs, or their squad options, or what all of their wargear does.

    I will get us started by analyzing what we know--not every detail, just a quick rundown of how I think the units will work.

    HQ

    Canoness: Not much on her own, but her Act of Faith, giving +1 Initiative and Preferred Enemy could be very useful in assault leading either a command squad or a unit of Celestians.

    Sororitas Command Squad: They have an Act of Faith that gives them Relentless and Move Through Cover. That means they can move, shoot their bolters, and still assault. Yay? It's pretty good I guess, but the thing that makes the unit worth while is (again, we assume) Feel No Pain from the Sister Hospitaller. This is one resilient unit that can help us compensate for the loss of the 3++ from Spirit of the Martyrs.

    Confessor/Preacher: Both of these guys let their squads reroll attacks on the charge. That's what they're for. The Confessor is somewhat of a combat beast with WS5 BS5, but depending on how much he costs he may not be worth it. I've heard that the Confessor is an HQ and the Preacher is Elites, though I'm really not sure. At any rate, what's important is their warband, er Battle Conclave.

    Saint Celestine: Yes! She's got WS7 now, nothing bad happens to you when she dies, and she can return to life with d3 wounds and immediately move, shoot, and assault. There's nothing not to like about her, except maybe her cost, which we don't know yet...

    Arch-Confessor Kyrinov: BARF! Everything about him is horrible. Especially his pug ugly model. Don't use him! Note however that he comes with a laud hailer and a simulacrum imperialis, and we don't know what those do yet, so maybe he's better than he looks at first glance.

    ELITES:

    Uriah Jacobus: Flat out amazing. He's not impressive in combat, and he carries a rather silly shotgun, and his model is ridiculous. However, he makes his squad re-roll attacks on the charge AND gives them +1 Attack. AND Feel No Pain. Yeah. Crusaders with 3++ and FNP is just rude, as are +1 Attack death cultists. Oh, and he lets your army reroll how many faith points it gets each turn. It's pretty hard to find a reason not to field this dude despite the silly shotgun.

    Battle Conclave: This is the nerfed inquisitor warband for Sisters of Battle. It can contain arco-flagellants, which are horrible. You would never want to use them in a unit that can also contain death cult assassins. I mean, it's insane. Death cultists have the same Strength, the same Toughness, the same number of Wounds, only one less attack, and power weapons. Arcos have FNP compared to the death cultist 5++, but honestly that doesn't matter when then arcos can't kill anything. Crusaders are your bullet eater models in the battle conclave, death cultists are your damage dealers, and arco-flagellants are nice models to put in a display case somewhere. All in all, most armies will want at least one of these with a handful of crusaders and death cultists being lead by Jacobus.

    Repentia: BARF! They have received significant buffs--Fleet, Feel No Pain, and Act of Faith that lets them make a single attack in combat attack even after they die, and 2 base attacks. But they're too slow to keep up with a mech army, and Rage means you can't control where they go, rather than staying behind a tank they're liable to run out in the open and get gunned down. If they can buy dedicated transports they will be AMAZING because transports negate Rage. But I seriously doubt they'll be able to do that.

    Penitent Engines: Rumored to be Elites. IMO, if they cost 55 points or less (as they should, being AV 11 open topped), and if they really are Elites, they'll be great. 9 of these bad boys will have your assault needs taken care of. Rage sucks, but they're so freakishly strong that whatever they charge will probably get stomped. Of course, if they cost much more than 55 points, or if they're heavy support, then no thanks. Battle Conclaves for me.

    TROOPS:

    Battle Sisters: I can't say much about these girls until we know their wargear options and squad size. Their Act of Faith is multi-purpose, letting them regroup regardless of restrictions (nice) and reroll 1's to hit in shooting or assault (crap).

    Celestians: Not confirmed to be Troops, but their placement in the Bestiary suggests that they are... It makes sense too because our Elites section is stuffed (especially if Penitent Engines are in there) and we only have one other kind of Troops. If I had to predict, I'd say that Battle Sisters are cheaper and come in minimum squad size of 10, while Celestians are more expensive and come in minimum squad size of 5. This would let you spam 6 immolators full of Celestians as Troops, a tempting option--or it would be, if Immolators didn't lose their move-12"-and-fire rule. We'll have to reserve judgment on these girls until we see what slot they occupy and what exactly their wargear options are. And how much they cost, too.

    Fast Attack:

    Dominions: MANDATORY. You WILL take 3x units of Dominions. Why? Because they have Scouts now. Yeah. Oh, and their Act of Faith twin-links their shooting. And I hear they're cheap, too. This is exactly what the SoB have always needed. Don't even bother yourself with the other Fast Attack.

    Seraphim: Assault 2 melta-pistols are cool. They can also fire both of their bolt pistols at once, which is nice. And their Act of Faith lets them reroll rolls to wound, which is cool when you cook a bunch of people with hand flamers. But they just can't compete with Dominions.

    HEAVY SUPPORT:


    Exorcists: The rules for the Exorcist Launcher haven't been released, but rumor has it it's the same. The default choice. You probably want 3 of them.

    Retributors: Heavy flamers. Heavy flamers! Heavy flamers!!! These girls can now (we assume) tote 4x heavy flamers, and their Act of Faith makes them Rending. That's powerful enough to challenge the Exorcist for a slot. On balance though, I don't think they cut it. SoB do not now and never had trouble destroying troops. Our challenge has always been range. And heavy flamer retributors don't help with that, and Exorcists do, so the Exorcist wins.

    Now, Retributors can also grab heavy bolters and make those rending too. Rending heavy bolters will be able to glance land raiders, and they *do* help with our range problems. And rumor has it they're really cheap. My problem with heavy bolter retribs, however, is that they're never going to get a line of sight. Sisters of Battle are still a mechanized army, and your Retributors sitting in the back are going to be staring at a wall of friendly rhinos, compared to the Exorcist which can see over them. Not to mention that 12 heavy bolter shots = average 9 hits = average 1.5 rends. That's kinda sucky compared to the average 3.5 S8 AP 1 shots that the Exorcist throws down range. So unless there's some kind of Exorcist nerf, I think these chicks are staying in the case. At most, I'd take one unit of heavy flamer retributors and 2 exorcists instead of 3 exorcists.
    Last edited by Ixe; 24-07-2011 at 07:21.
    "That thou wouldst bring them only death,/ That thou shouldst spare none,/ That thou shouldst pardon none/ We beseech thee, destroy them."

    -Battle Hymn of the Adepta Sororitas

  2. #2
    Chapter Master SabrX's Avatar
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    Re: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    Everything said by Ixe sums my feelings so far. Sisters took a huge hit in moral and assault. In return, they got a slight boost in shooting.

    So far, I've seen very little anti-psyker in the army. This is discerning. I hope whoever wrote this new codex had enough sense to implement war gear that's more effective than a psychic hood. It's hilarious that Sisters of Battle, tasked with hunting rogue psykers, have little protection compared to other factions.

    Furthermore, I've yet to see any fixes to Sisters of Battle 'Achilles heel'. One of the reasons why Sisters of Battle don't score high in tournament is due to Annihilation missions from lack of better armored vehicles and lack of ranged anti-tank shooting. New Sisters of Battle vehicles have no protection against range anti-mech shooting other than a laughable 6++. There's also lack of Str8 or <= AP2 shooting against FNP spam, which is becoming popular in the tournament scene. For all their boost in TL-shooting, the new Sisters will have difficulty against Paladins and BA or DA Assault Terminators.

    If the new Sisters can't neutralize threats in shooting phase, then its curtains in the enemy's assault phase.

    I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Points reduction and wargear bought by Superior that grants stubborn to her squad will be a saving grace for the new Sisters of Battle.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by SabrX View Post
    Furthermore, I've yet to see any fixes to Sisters of Battle 'Achilles heel'. One of the reasons why Sisters of Battle don't score high in tournament is due to Annihilation missions from lack of better armored vehicles and lack of ranged anti-tank shooting. New Sisters of Battle vehicles have no protection against range anti-mech shooting other than a laughable 6++. There's also lack of Str8 or <= AP2 shooting against FNP spam, which is becoming popular in the tournament scene. For all their boost in TL-shooting, the new Sisters will have difficulty against Paladins and BA or DA Assault Terminators.

    If the new Sisters can't neutralize threats in shooting phase, then its curtains in the enemy's assault phase.
    This is why I'm thinking one squad of seraphim with double tapping innferno pistols might be a very good idea.
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  4. #4

    Re: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    I think our ability to neutralize enemy anti-tank has been buffed by Scouting dominions. Dominions will be able to move up, hopefully behind cover, and strike enemy heavy support on the first turn. I wish we had more scouts or infiltrators, but we don't. Dominions will have to carry the army.

    I'm not that worried about FNP deathstars myself, especially not Paladins. Paladins don't fear Divine Guidance because with wound allocation, it will take forever to kill them with S4 AP1 shots. You need to hit them with S8 AP1, i.e. Exorcist missiles and melta guns. Target a Paladin squad with 3 exorcists and 3 dominion meltagun squads, and they're gonna die. Same with most FNP/2+ save stuff.
    "That thou wouldst bring them only death,/ That thou shouldst spare none,/ That thou shouldst pardon none/ We beseech thee, destroy them."

    -Battle Hymn of the Adepta Sororitas

  5. #5
    Chapter Master SabrX's Avatar
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    Re: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    Would you be worried about 6 squads of 10 Blood Angels Assault Marines, each with a 1 Power fist and 2 Meltaguns, 2 Librarians with Jump Packs, and 4 Sanguinary Priests also with Jump Packs deployed and moved in a way where everyone has FNP and Furious Charge? I know I would.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Thunder View Post
    Because debate is a tool by which we discover and refine truth. By disagreeing with one another and stating the reasons why, it becomes easier to see where the correct answer lies. Without the back-and-forth, much of the benefit from this thread would be lost.

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  6. #6

    Re: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    If they're rushing at me with no firepower, I'm NEVER afraid as a SoB player. But I do think we'll need to add significant power weapon attacks to our armies, meltas and exorcists won't be enough against some armies. The reason for this is not the loss of Divine Guidance however, it's the loss of Seraphim with 3++. Even with Divine Guidance, my bolters were never really enough to take out that much FNP assault power. But what I'd do was position my Seraphim so that they could tarpit any survivors and prevent an enemy assault. Now that Seraphim will just get killed, we'll need to throw in some assault power to protect our Battle Sisters from being assaulted by the remnants of whatever they shoot at. Hopefully PE's become Elites and get cheap enough to use. Otherwise, it's Battle Conclaves. They can wipe the floor with assault marines of every flavor, especially if they've got Jacobus. But even just a regular Priest with a bunch of reroll-to-hit death cult assassins can splatter anything of T4 or less, and make a dent in T5.
    Last edited by Ixe; 24-07-2011 at 18:19.
    "That thou wouldst bring them only death,/ That thou shouldst spare none,/ That thou shouldst pardon none/ We beseech thee, destroy them."

    -Battle Hymn of the Adepta Sororitas

  7. #7
    Chapter Master Sildani's Avatar
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    Re: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    For your sakes, I pray Exorcist missiles remain AP1. Maybe my sake too, I've been fighting the urge to start a Sisters army. It seems that the Exorcist needs to remain unchanged in order for the Sisters to remain anywhere close to viable.
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  8. #8

    Re: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    That's true, the Exorcist losing AP1 would probably mean it's time to pack it in. The rumors say it's staying the same though.
    "That thou wouldst bring them only death,/ That thou shouldst spare none,/ That thou shouldst pardon none/ We beseech thee, destroy them."

    -Battle Hymn of the Adepta Sororitas

  9. #9
    Chapter Master SabrX's Avatar
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    Re: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    If Exorcist remains the same and able to be fielded in squadrons of 3, that would absolve any of my misgiving of nerfs in moral and assault.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Thunder View Post
    Because debate is a tool by which we discover and refine truth. By disagreeing with one another and stating the reasons why, it becomes easier to see where the correct answer lies. Without the back-and-forth, much of the benefit from this thread would be lost.

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  10. #10
    Commander MuNsTeNbRaU's Avatar
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    Re: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by SabrX View Post
    If Exorcist remains the same and able to be fielded in squadrons of 3, that would absolve any of my misgiving of nerfs in moral and assault.
    Yeah this would be epic. I'm just hoping that our wargear section will help with the nerfing of our anti psychic, faith and squad staying power (i.e. something like our book of stubborn)

    Is this going to be the new tactics thread for sisters?
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    Re: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by MuNsTeNbRaU View Post
    Is this going to be the new tactics thread for sisters?
    I hope not given that the 1st half of the white dwarf codex isn't even out. People are jumping the gun, a sisters tactica thread shouldn't be opened until both halfs of the codex are out, as all this thread is going to be filled with is wish lists and speculation.
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  12. #12

    Re: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by bluemage View Post
    I hope not given that the 1st half of the white dwarf codex isn't even out. People are jumping the gun, a sisters tactica thread shouldn't be opened until both halfs of the codex are out, as all this thread is going to be filled with is wish lists and speculation.
    Well, the other tactica is filled with is tactics that are very soon to be obsolete. I think we need this thread because the "Sisters of Battle Summary" thread is full of emo about how people don't like the book. Yes, this thread is for speculation at the moment, but speculation about how we're going to make it work, not crying about how we wish we had a full codex instead of a stop-gap White Dwarf codex.
    "That thou wouldst bring them only death,/ That thou shouldst spare none,/ That thou shouldst pardon none/ We beseech thee, destroy them."

    -Battle Hymn of the Adepta Sororitas

  13. #13
    Chapter Master SabrX's Avatar
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    Re: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by bluemage View Post
    I hope not given that the 1st half of the white dwarf codex isn't even out. People are jumping the gun, a sisters tactica thread shouldn't be opened until both halfs of the codex are out, as all this thread is going to be filled with is wish lists and speculation.
    You are behind. Someone posted scans of the first codex Sisters of Battle White Dwarf half. We've been discussing tactics based on the known information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Thunder View Post
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    Commander bluemage's Avatar
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    Re: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    I know that scans of the first half are up, but given that the second half with all the points costs and upgrades still isn't available I think possible tactics will be highly speculative.

    Its great that you guys are trying to make the white dwarf codex work. I just think its a little early for a tactica.

    edit: anyways I'll stop talking about this as I don't want to derail the thread.
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  15. #15
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    Re: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ixe View Post
    If they're rushing at me with no firepower, I'm NEVER afraid as a SoB player. But I do think we'll need to add significant power weapon attacks to our armies, meltas and exorcists won't be enough against some armies. The reason for this is not the loss of Divine Guidance however, it's the loss of Seraphim with 3++.
    Re the Seraphim: I never really rated them as anti-troop units - load up on meltabombs and send them tank hunting. Of course, now dominions get scout and tl meltas they are a much better choice for that role, which leaves me to wonder what I'm going to use my seraphim FOR (they're just too darned pretty to leave on the shelf!)

    For power weapon attacks, I think that has to be where the conclaves come in. Especially if they can be given transports (which we won't know until we get part two in a month's time). With priest led conclaves, repentia, and penitent engines (presumably) all competing for elite slots, it looks as if that's where we have to turn for our assault units - both our FA choices are better used for drive by (or fly by) shootings.

    One thing we don't know yet is whether we will keep the option to buy Immolators as heavy support. I know they aren't as useful as exorcists or rending retributors, but now that they have ditched the rule about repentia riding in vehicles I think that might be the best (only?) way to make them a viable unit - take a small squad of repentia and a HS immolator, and keep them embarked until you get into range to disembark, fleet move, and then assault. It may be a valid tactic, but given that it would use two slots which are arguably better used for other things (and probably come out expensive on points) I don't see it getting used very much - only by sad geeks like me who like to field one of everything
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  16. #16
    Commander MuNsTeNbRaU's Avatar
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    Re: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by bluemage View Post
    I hope not given that the 1st half of the white dwarf codex isn't even out. People are jumping the gun, a sisters tactica thread shouldn't be opened until both halfs of the codex are out, as all this thread is going to be filled with is wish lists and speculation.
    I so far this thread has only been commented on by experienced sister of battle players (and me) so i think that any talk about tactics from Ixe , Sabrx and Sekhmet will be valid tactics for the nex dex. They are the best sisters players here
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  17. #17
    Chapter Master SabrX's Avatar
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    Re: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    There's quite a few experienced players that are popping up in Sisters of Battle Summary. This codex is new, so we are all relatively beginners in that regard. As bluemage pointed out, its really just a lot of speculation. But from past experience and seeing the current individual unit rules, it doesn't take a genius to predict how the new Sisters of Battle will perform against today's popular armies and builds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Thunder View Post
    Because debate is a tool by which we discover and refine truth. By disagreeing with one another and stating the reasons why, it becomes easier to see where the correct answer lies. Without the back-and-forth, much of the benefit from this thread would be lost.

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  18. #18

    Re: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by rodmillard View Post
    One thing we don't know yet is whether we will keep the option to buy Immolators as heavy support. I know they aren't as useful as exorcists or rending retributors, but now that they have ditched the rule about repentia riding in vehicles I think that might be the best (only?) way to make them a viable unit - take a small squad of repentia and a HS immolator, and keep them embarked until you get into range to disembark, fleet move, and then assault. It may be a valid tactic, but given that it would use two slots which are arguably better used for other things (and probably come out expensive on points) I don't see it getting used very much - only by sad geeks like me who like to field one of everything
    Repentia in transports would be great, especially because I think they're going to be really cheap. But if it takes up a heavy support slot, it's a no-go. Exorcists can start blowing up enemy armor on turn 1, while Repentia need at least a turn to get there, before which time they might be killed. I would definitely use 2 units of them if they could take dedicated transports, but I wouldn't use them otherwise.

    I never stopped to consider whether battle conclaves would be allowed to have transports, I just assumed they would... Inquisitorial warbands have the full range of transport options, and our version is nowhere near as versatile. They wouldn't be so ridiculous as to arbitrarily take away their transports, would they? That would be an enormous blow to the army's viability.
    "That thou wouldst bring them only death,/ That thou shouldst spare none,/ That thou shouldst pardon none/ We beseech thee, destroy them."

    -Battle Hymn of the Adepta Sororitas

  19. #19

    Re: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    you didn't mention the command squad - sister hospittaller AND a sister dialogus?

    Rhinos appear to have been normalised so I hope we can guess their points. No mention of chimeras, let alone land raiders. - seems unusual that we only have three vehicles in the entire army, especially given Sister's mech play style.

    Oh, but Ixe, I disagree with you re Uriah Jacobus's shotgun. It's awesome. useless, but awesome.

  20. #20

    Re: Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by madd0ct0r View Post
    Oh, but Ixe, I disagree with you re Uriah Jacobus's shotgun. It's awesome. useless, but awesome.
    No, it isn't. He's got some kind of enormous, mutated mega-hand holding it. It's like a baseball mitt.
    "That thou wouldst bring them only death,/ That thou shouldst spare none,/ That thou shouldst pardon none/ We beseech thee, destroy them."

    -Battle Hymn of the Adepta Sororitas

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