Tactica: SISTERS of BATTLE!

[Carlosophy]

Q: How are flanking Dominions a first turn advantage when they suffer from reserve rolls like everybody else?
It is unlikely you would get multiple squads turning up at once in which case a 'wave' assault will just get destroyed piecemeal by a clever opponent placing his heavy stuff front and center and crappy things on the flanks.

[Ixe]

They're a first turn advantage because of their scout move, not when you put them in reserves. The goal would be to start them on the table whenever possible to take advantage of the Scouts move.

[SabrX]

For Sisters of Battle, first turn advantage means a lot. Sisters needs to close the distance to be most effective. They can't afford to sit back and trade fire, unless against Orks or an inferior shooty list. Scouting Dominions closes the distance and if going second, pops smoke and obscure the rest of the Sisters in the back.

Another tactic is attacking the flanks. Depending on how an opponent deployed his/her army, it might be smart to add pressure on their weaker flanks. However, this may require move further distance, which is where Scout move comes in.

[Muddypaw]

Yeah, makes sense.

OMG, a rules debate that didn't devolve into a flame war! WHERE AM I!? DID I FALL INTO ANOTHER UNIVERSE!?

Thanks for the discussion about the stacking /Fearless issues Ixe and WallWeasels. Handled sensibly and without flames and ire as you say, very nice to see

One thing to add about the use of multiple faith on a unit. If we do take the "an act..." to mean only one use can be attempted, then a failed act cannot be tried again till the following turn?

Also would that a cannoness with a Celestian unit. Can they both use their respective faith powers to bolster them both, or would that clash with the "an act..." phrasing?

Personally I think "An act..." merely refers to the individual act being attempted and doesn't preclude attempting the same act again wether failed or passed. It might be FAQ'd later and I wouldn't argue with that should it happen. It just seems like a sliver of versatility is added by allowing multi use of faith given the baffling lack of utilty in an opponents turn.

As to the other stuff I am loving scouting Dominions, and Sororitas command squads could be devastating give the right wargear options. Nervous as hell about what the second part of the codex will bring though!

[WallWeasels]

Celestian Command Squads faith is used in the movement phase and is the only AoF that lasts for "the entire turn". So it would be used at the start before you move and the Canoness act of faith would be used before striking in combat (or I suppose before anyone in combat starts striking). If celestian command squads get 2 special weapon slots that can also be a heavy weapon I would love to see double multi-melta squads. But...yeah second half is pretty important to this.

[rodmillard]

Also would that a cannoness with a Celestian unit. Can they both use their respective faith powers to bolster them both, or would that clash with the "an act..." phrasing?

Personally I think "An act..." merely refers to the individual act being attempted and doesn't preclude attempting the same act again wether failed or passed. It might be FAQ'd later and I wouldn't argue with that should it happen. It just seems like a sliver of versatility is added by allowing multi use of faith given the baffling lack of utilty in an opponents turn.

It specifically says that if an independent character joins a unit they can both use their respective acts of faith, and both get the benefits, although of course this will cost 2 faith points.

[Sekhmet]

With the new faith system, I'm thinking MSU is NOT going to be a great option, and low point values will be better as well. With only d6 faith per turn, regardless of army size, that means on average, 3-4 units will be able to attempt to use faith. If the squad leader is alive and the squad has taken a casualty, that means about 2 units per turn will successfully use faith on average.

Celestine with Seraphim could be deadly, depending on the rules for flamer pistols. Assuming two flamer pistols counts as a single flamer, you'll be taking a rerollable faith check on 3+ or 2+, and you'll have 2 flamers and a heavy flamer on a jump pack platform to roast infantry squads, along with various double tapping bolt pistols, all of which re-roll to wound. The follow up charge isn't anything to laugh at either, with 3 attacks at WS4 and S3 per Seraphim as well as Celestine's 6 WS7 4+ wounding power weapon attacks. Angelic Visage will help a lot too, but too bad it doesn't help Celestine's 4++.

Inferno pistols on Seraphim don't quite synergize as well with their faith power, nor with Celestine.

[Muddypaw]

It specifically says that if an independent character joins a unit they can both use their respective acts of faith, and both get the benefits, although of course this will cost 2 faith points.

Thats good to know. All we need now is something in the army list that allows the Canoness to join a Seraphim squad and use Hit and Run. Such a shame Celestine cannot do so

I hope they clarify the Acts of Faith with some in depth of examples in the Battle Report. There seem quite a few holes in their timing and duration.

[Axel]

I do wonder wether the Celestian retinue is able to add a Multimelter. With the Faith:Relentless this would add a nice if somewhat unreliable tank-hunter ability - especially when fielded in a Rhino. This will probably not pay off, however, since it takes a Prioris to field a retinue. Celestine looks like she will be worth it this time...

[Axel]

... regardless of army size, that means on average, 3-4 units will be able to attempt to use faith.

To be precise, 3.5 units on average.

If you take Jakobus and reroll any 1-3, this will increase to 4.25
If you just reroll 1-2, it will increase to 4.17

So in a mathematically perfect world where Jakobus does not die, you will get 21 acts of faith on average without and 25.5 acts with him. The average, however, does not really represents the value of that reroll, since the first acts per round will usually be more important then the later ones.

[Brightstar]

I'm very, very, very disappointed in the new codex as far as the rule writing goes.
1. Why do the arcoflagellants only have S4? GK's have S5. Siiigh. Even less useful. The whole unit is pretty much hit-and-miss, which is sad. They could have made it unique and cool but just took the pretty much least used henchmen from the GK-codex and shoved them there. With a typo-nerf.
2. Immolator doesn't have fire points.
3. Penitent Engines have 2 H.flamers nowadays. But then again, Rage. They better be VERY cheap. Same goes with Repentia. They better be current battlesister-cheap and troops since otherwise they just be free killpoints.
4. Seraphim with I3. Sadface. Also their pistol-tapping ability makes me sigh again from rules point of view. Hand Flamers are clearly pistols (also called flamer pistols every now and then) but since they arent pistols by name... I hope armory clarifies that, but i doubt it. And they better be steal-cheap too since they made dominions too good with their Scout.
5. IMMOLATOR DOESN'T HAVE A FIRE POINT! I can see the tophatch ffs! Also why are there no mention about 12"&fire ability? That's what made it usable. That and the firepoints. MASSIVE sigh. Well again, better be cheap. And have armory upgrades for the stuff it lost.
6. Lack of faith-scaling based on army size. Faaail. Also they could have made Jacobus's shotgun a bit more unique like, S5 ap3 and ignore cover. Decent for random potshots but not overpowered.

All in all, i don't like it. A lot of wasted potential and badly written rules almost everywhere. They could have made a lot more better job.

Ps: a little bird told me about the nerf concerning Exorcist Launcher. For some reason i cant myself to be that optimistic about it being a false rumor.

[Muddypaw]

I'm very, very, very disappointed in the new codex as far as the rule writing goes.
1. Why do the arcoflagellants only have S4? GK's have S5. Siiigh. Even less useful. The whole unit is pretty much hit-and-miss, which is sad. They could have made it unique and cool but just took the pretty much least used henchmen from the GK-codex and shoved them there. With a typo-nerf.
2. Immolator doesn't have fire points.
3. Penitent Engines have 2 H.flamers nowadays. But then again, Rage. They better be VERY cheap. Same goes with Repentia. They better be current battlesister-cheap and troops since otherwise they just be free killpoints.
4. Seraphim with I3. Sadface. Also their pistol-tapping ability makes me sigh again from rules point of view. Hand Flamers are clearly pistols (also called flamer pistols every now and then) but since they arent pistols by name... I hope armory clarifies that, but i doubt it. And they better be steal-cheap too since they made dominions too good with their Scout.
5. IMMOLATOR DOESN'T HAVE A FIRE POINT! I can see the tophatch ffs! Also why are there no mention about 12"&fire ability? That's what made it usable. That and the firepoints. MASSIVE sigh. Well again, better be cheap. And have armory upgrades for the stuff it lost.
6. Lack of faith-scaling based on army size. Faaail. Also they could have made Jacobus's shotgun a bit more unique like, S5 ap3 and ignore cover. Decent for random potshots but not overpowered.

All in all, i don't like it. A lot of wasted potential and badly written rules almost everywhere. They could have made a lot more better job.

Ps: a little bird told me about the nerf concerning Exorcist Launcher. For some reason i cant myself to be that optimistic about it being a false rumor.

I can agree with just about all of that. I hope the Arco Str is just a typo to be corrected in the army list, but the rest is a little depressing.

Hopefully there will be a wargear item for Veteran Sisters that will provide +1 Faith so scaling faith pretty closely to army size.

The Immolator speed nerf and the Init drop are the major changes for me. Maybe as some have said the flamer ammo upgrade will allow full out moving with firing still. We shall see.

I still plan on using Sisters and will use the new Codex, and maybe any hard won victories will be all the sweeter for it!

I pray that the Exorcist does not change. That really would be the runny brown icing on the faecal confectionary.

[madd0ct0r]

oi! whinging in the other thread. This is the tactica, not the pulpit.

someone mentioned a pdf - is the partial dex up on GW site now?

[Muddypaw]

oi! whinging in the other thread. This is the tactica, not the pulpit.

someone mentioned a pdf - is the partial dex up on GW site now?

No and probably wont be for a while as that would defeat the whole point of GW releasing a White Dwarf army list.

So most likely the earliest will be after both issues with the list have been and gone from the retail shelves. How much longer ? Who knows. Start of October would be the earliest if the point is to drive WD sales.

[Carlosophy]

oi! whinging in the other thread. This is the tactica, not the pulpit.

someone mentioned a pdf - is the partial dex up on GW site now?

There are scans around if you know where to look. However codex piracy is wrong...

[Sekhmet]

oi! whinging in the other thread. This is the tactica, not the pulpit.

That's the problem with a tactical thread a month before release. It's just people reacting to rumors and making their own speculation. I imagine the thread will be closed soon. Regardless of the thread name, this belongs in general, not tactics.

[Ixe]

It doesn't need to be closed, it could be moved. Regardless, a bunch of rules are known, and there are tactical implications to discuss, so I think we're perfectly justified in having this thread.

[WallWeasels]

It doesn't need to be closed, it could be moved. Regardless, a bunch of rules are known, and there are tactical implications to discuss, so I think we're perfectly justified in having this thread.

It was moved, it has been in general discussion for before the scans were leaked. Can you also take out the all CAPITAL LETTERS in the title? Not that its important it just bothers me slightly Although I assume it was used to imply that this was seperate from C:WH's tactica thread...but we all know what it is

[Ixe]

No! It's been many long years since Sisters of Battle actually had their own codex that wasn't jammed full of gimptastic Inquisition garbage. The caps stay! Also I'm pretty sure you can't edit thread titles without admin privileges.

[WallWeasels]

Don't you just edit the first post and it comes up? I think you can anyway

[edit]Yeah you can, do edit, then advanced edit and you can just change it on your first post (since you made the thread). But yeah you have a point I have to say I liked Assassins but only for what they did and their fluff individually speaking.

WTB: Heroes of the Imperium mini-dex with real "allies". hahahahaha like that'll happen