Fair enough, so keeping at least one FD unit is critical then?
And as to points, not sure if we can give points on the forum, but its a pretty decent drop, and its across the board on its weapons. Enough that it pays for and then some the slight increase in cost of the hornet itself.
Would it be worth it to go the PL/BL combo then to give some chance at punching AV14?
The Hornet hasn't gone up in cost. Before it had to take at least two weapons and didn't come with a default. It now comes with a default, which is the cheapest weapon configuration, that is costed in. All weapon upgrades have had the base cost of the Shuriken Cannon knocked off of them, except the pulse laser which got a discount.
The increase in BS is nice.
Okay, that's a good discount on what was already pretty reasonably costed by eldar standards - I suspect this is forward looking to bring it in line with the next codex.
I would say one mounted unit of Dragons is a bare minimum yes.
As to the Hornets - I'd either go double pulse or double lance (or one of each), but not mix weapons on the same vehicle.
Kelanen
Indeed. I loved the look of the models when I first saw them: When I saw the experimental I felt that they was surprisingly well pointed out. In fact, those models have convinced me to jump back into GW-Land.Originally Posted by Kelanen
I'll keep the unit of FD's, not sure what I will do with the points saved, but I am sure I will think of something. As it stands, the list has three hornets with dual pulse lasers, spirit stones, and holo-fields. Expensive I know: But they should be able to deal a lot of damage, and actually survive a decent while.
Ah yes.. you are right. I didn't put two and two together. So yes, pretty nice improvement.
They deal there damage from 48" and can move very fast - keeping the alive should be easier than most units!
That's an impressive package of improvements - undercosted even. Definitely something to use.
Kelanen
I don't know about undercosted: Add in Vectored Engines, and you are talking about 555 points for the three. Not a small chunk of even a 2K army list. But I think that much for what I think they can do is a reasonably fair price.
If the rules for them is something of a hint as to 6th as I have heard, I would say that 6E bodes well for Eldar players.
6th bodes very well for Eldar - Jetlocks get force weapons and are only hit on 6's
Vectored Engines are a complete waste of time.
Kelanen
Where did you get that on Jetlocks?
I really think IA11 will give a very good peek at 6E as well, perhaps better than this latest FW book. But, I've viewed Vectored Engines more as a +1 round of shooting type thing: When you get immobilized, and it will eventually happen, VE's will at least get you one last round of shooting before the unit gets wiped. Agreed though if I am looking for points to save, VE's are the first place.
To hit chances are based on target size and speed, so static vehicles are autohits (or maybe 2+ don't remember), static infantry 3+ moving infatry 4+ or similar - anyway moving jetbikes are 6+
Also Witchblades will count as full force weapons.
Both those changes are consistant in the various rumour mills I've seen (to be fair they are probably all drawing on the same limited sources).
Kelanen
Cool beans.. thanks for the info.
On Vectored Engines, I kinda agree and disagree with you on them.
Yes, If you was looking for points to save, they should not be taken. But:
Lets say for pure S&G's, two of my Skimmers get mobility-killed during your turn of shooting. While this doesn't apply to every case, I think its reasonable to assume that for the most part, a solid chunk of your army has already spent its wad shooting for the turn. On Average, I would agree that one of the two would probably bite the dust that same turn from shooting after the M-Kill. However: As I understand it, Holo Shields (Be it wargear or WS) would still be in effect. So, one, maybe even both, has a very good chance to survive into my shooting phase. Of course, this will no doubt lead to either those vehicles death in your next shooting phase, but that one extra turn might be the difference between a win, loss, or draw.
Vectored Engines without the Spirit Stones and Holo Shields should not be taken, without both, they are a waste I agree.
Of course, this is the opinion of someone who hasn't read a rule book in depth since I quit the game in 05, so is worth about the electrons its written with.
You do realise that Vectored Engines only come into play when:
You are moving Flat Out (not just moving)
AND
You have been hit AND immobilised.
So VE perforce have no effect whatsoever any turn where you are:
Shooting
Passengers are embarking
Passengers are disembarking
You are Moving, but not using the Flat-Out rule
Typically they are only functional on 1 turn of the game, occasionally two, let alone whether you actually need them then.
Last edited by Kelanen; 13-10-2011 at 21:37.
Kelanen
No I did not...
Hrm. That does change my perspective on them then.
It's a very, very specific set of circumstances in which they do anything at all.
As a freebie ability it would be cool, but hardly trigger. At 5 points it's not worth it - there are better 5pt upgrades around...
Kelanen
Whilst we're on it, Spirit Stones are golden on transports, but mediocre elsewhere.
Holo-fields are too expensive mostly. The only real use is on a transporting Falcons. It's not a terrible upgrade, but it is very expensive...
Kelanen
Eh, I think Stones are the one mandatory upgrade on almost any Eldar vehicle. Movement is life to them, and if they can't move they're sitting ducks. The spirit stone allow you another chance to move to cover, or gain the SMF save when you otherwise wouldn't be able to. That's worth it to me.
Last edited by Sildani; 14-10-2011 at 00:00.
My Craftworld Yme-Loc project log It lives! Completed Night Spinner. Updated 11/27/12 Now with 100% more Dark Eldar!
Sildani, I've often had stones on a Falcon when I've wished that I could shoot rather than move! As such I'd put the upgrade into 'your mileage may vary' territory.
Spirit stones on every transport yes.
Others... it's definitely optional. My fire Prisms never run them, and have very rarely wanted them for instance. If you are running Vypers up close and round teh back, I can see you may, etc.
Kelanen
The reason I think Spirit Stones are important on every Eldar tank (not Vypers):
If a tank, such as a night spinner, falcon, or Fire Prism loses it's main gun or both guns, you can still use it to ram into other vehicles or tank shock troops if you can keep it moving. The way to do that is Spirit Stones.
Some people argue if it's worth the points. I say if it allows you to tank shock troops off of objectives then yes, it's totally worth it.
Once it loses it's main gun, it's rarely fired upon.
Is it useful - sure. Is it more useful thane the 10 other places you could spend that 10 pts? No, at least not for me, and in my army.
Kelanen
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