Why are you still playing Fantasy, Sailor?

[dreamspirit]

I like Mordheim, and I believe there are rules to be found out there on warhammer skirmish with troops from Army books and I think GW at some point released the book Warbands or smthng, that governs the rules for small battles-large skirmish types of games. These are great IMO for some sort of an intro to a much larger game, or for a siege. And when we play Warhammer campaigns, there are always things from Mordheim that we need, so the combination of the two from time to time can be refreshing. That being said, Mordheim or Warhammer skirmish are not there to be tactically challenging as much as to have fun and run half rpg half wargame campaign. On the other hand, Warhammer, what ever edition (though I am beginning to like 8th more and more) are about epic games, large armies and of course large games and epic armies.

In the end it's all just the matter of taste.
But I'd love to see some ship to ship skirmish yaaar! Think that would be both tactical and epic

[yabbadabba]

@dreamspirit -warhammer ahoy mate. Good set of rules by a good bloke.

[Gliderrider]

I'd like to make alittle mordheim band around my new army, but there arent any other players locally, sountil there are I wont spend the money, I'll just convert some of my minis to a small warband as I feel like it.

[WarbossKurgan]

I voted "Other".

Bigger player base for WHFB proper - Disagree. There are more people into Mordheim where I play.
No (proper) support for my favourite WHFB race - Disagree. I play Orcs and Goblins. The Mordheim O&G warband is great!
Skirmish is even less tactical than 8th - Disagree.
I want big lords and monsters - Neutral. I don't dislike them but I don't use many.
Don't like making terrain - Disagree. I LOVE making terrain!
Other (specify) - 8th Edition is fun!

[Makaber]

What about, uh, I really like to play Warhammer?

[Nuada]

Warmaster is a great game, but I missed the boat a bit with it....

I've played some pretty big WFB games (20k per side on a 30 foot table being the biggest) and they're usually much more fun (and at this scale, the storm of magic and huge monsters 'fit' the game much better than at 2-3k which is essentially a skirmish but with blocks of troops.....)

Yeah i've had some big games like that as well. We had a lock-in at whworld, 12ish players, 8 tables, around 30k per side. I've had a game against one of your opponents in that big batrep as well, i recognize the pics, he used empire.

Problem we found with whfb is when you scale the game up the army lists can win the game before you start turn 1. If one person decides to have 4 bloodthirsters, or 12 dwarf organ guns, 6 high elf dragons, etc. The opposition can't deal with it, which can result in a one sided game. I know you can decide amongst yourselves to take reasonable lists, but it's hard to know where to draw the line.

[Robotlord]

I enjoy 8th ed. because I find it a lot more tactical than previous editions. The randomness (realword?) makes it so that you have to plan two steps ahead, much like killer draughts. ( Basically normal draughts but you roll a dice each turn to decide how many moves you get each turn

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Given that I have seen so many users on here complaining about these very things, why do you still stick with WHFB?

First of all, I have only seen a few who complain about all those things, which makes me believe that you are vastly overinterpreting some side remarks.

Secondly, I don't see what relevance a few sentences from a random disgruntled guy somewhere in the world might have, especially when they are not even true to start with. Major spells do not decide games. Monsters do not appear. See? Everyone can claim something.

Why this ruckus?

[yabbadabba]

Why this ruckus?

Asp might be using it as market research for his business plan to make money off coreheim.

[kyussinchains]

Yeah i've had some big games like that as well. We had a lock-in at whworld, 12ish players, 8 tables, around 30k per side. I've had a game against one of your opponents in that big batrep as well, i recognize the pics, he used empire.

Problem we found with whfb is when you scale the game up the army lists can win the game before you start turn 1. If one person decides to have 4 bloodthirsters, or 12 dwarf organ guns, 6 high elf dragons, etc. The opposition can't deal with it, which can result in a one sided game. I know you can decide amongst yourselves to take reasonable lists, but it's hard to know where to draw the line.

While I think you may be thinking of Paul who is the only one of our group who plays with other people (barring enyoss, but his opponents are in the USA.....) he wasn't using empire in that game, they are some old empire models belonging to Mike (if you do know mike, send me a PM we may know each other.....)

we felt that big games need moderation, in our 20k game, we said that magic was going to be huge so we suggested that people not go overboard with wizards, we did have all of the greater daemons in the game (it ended up with 3 greater daemons and a daemon prince fighting a huge unit of swordmasters with teclis.... the GUO ended up killing teclis which was nice) but the good guys had a battery of artillery so it kind of balanced out

[ashc]

Is it fair to ask 'skirmish game vs. ranked battles game'? - its not really a question of whether its warhammer fantasy or not.

[Manyac]

I prefer this edition because the hordes rule NOW I can build an army. I love playing armies, big blocks of infantry supported with small units of elite. And.. Some big and "scary" monsters. You had the same monsters, the same magic before, but Now you now must run an army...

[Sir_Turalyon]

It's kind of "why do you still drink coffee instead of switching to vodka" question. I do both, they provide different experiences.

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Quite, although to be honest, on the coffee forum they always complain that coffee is sometimes too hot, often served in mega cups that take the whole fun out of drinking it and mainly sweetened to the brim. I tell ya, that's killing all tactics.

[grimkeeper]

Absolutly love skirmish games Mordhiem in particular and basically havent played a game of Warhammer since it came out. That dosent mean im not intrested in it i just cant get motivated to paint all those figs for a unit when i can spend the time converting and painting a warband with a story.
I find skirmish games much more challeging and tactical than Warhammer as AROUND HERE it is simply either we both move these blocks until they meet somewhere around the middle of the board and the roll dice, or ill sit here and roll dice while you run across the board.

[Hjiryon]

7th edition basically killed WHFB where I live now. I moved there, and no one was playing the game. I did manage to drag a few games out of some of the local club members, but it was clear they didn't care much for it.

Instead, people were playing 40k or Warmahordes.
So I picked up warmahordes and it did not take long to convert me. The idea that every single model is signifigant makes it much more to my taste. I'm a skirmish player at heart, after all. I played Urban War, Confrontation 3.5 (and 4.0 with the old metal models), Blood Bowl and 40k before I realised that finding a player base for any of those games was going to be problematic... Which then again meant I picked up warhammer fantasy.

I don't really think the game was ever good; the models were clearly inferior to Confrontation's (a huge chunk of my WHFB models aren't GW models), the rules were extremely unbalanced, favouring a few armies over the rest and - not least - the rules were muddled, unclear and never got any reasonable attention from erratas.
Or rather, they did when 8th launched, but that was still not enough to resolve very basic questions, or obvious loopholes in the rules.

I went to all of one 8th edition tournament, then lost interest completely. Don't get me wrong, I was playing against really nice people, and it was good fun. But the game itself?
I'll take Ludo over WHFB - at least it's somewhat balanced.
I think I'd have a lot of fun with 40k, honestly, and I'm saving up to dive into it - But GWs release system of updating one army at a time means it may take a while... I'm waiting for proper sisters of battle rules and models to come out.
Because as much as I think the current line is decent (not fantastic, but it looks okay-ish), I am very much done playing any of the older armies in any GW product.

[Haravikk]

Other for me; the player base doesn't especially bother me, I just like being able to field a full-blown army.

While I'm not too fussy about increase in monsters (plenty of ways to deal with them), I dislike the currently extreme magic phase (very random, high damage if it works). That said, in the average case magic is fun enough to still be enjoyable, it just sucks when it goes too far in one direction.

Otherwise, the game is no different at its core than 7th edition; 8th just has new (and in many ways more) tactics, and better represents the strength of a large infantry blocks, as monsters, while cool, are actually not automatically powerful in 8th thanks to Steadfast and step-up meaning that even weak units can hit back.


Don't get me wrong, I love Mordheim and Necromunda as well, but they're both very different games. I wouldn't call them any more adult or kid friendly; they're just on a smaller scale and more focused on the small group of individually significant characters, rather than the full army of infantry with the odd (okay, more common these days) hero or monster.

I think the player base of fantasy, 40k, and War of the Ring are always going to be larger, as these are the games that GW want to sell, as it means players buying lots of models. Mordheim and Necromunda can be played with only a handful of models.

It's interesting that GW have never realised that the way to monetize Necromunda and/or Mordheim is to have a nice big range of scenery kits; as no matter what themed group you're playing, you still need largely the same types of scenery, so GW could have made the games a lot more viable for sale by providing a ton of building and objective kits.

Anyway, both systems are good, but I prefer the large-scale tactics of an army, with the occasional skirmish sized game.