Ogre Kingdoms 8th Ed Tactics Recipe Book

[sturguard]

I ran the following list the other day (I keep evolving the list based on games)
Slaughtermaster- level 4, heaven, potion of toughness, powerstone
Butcher- level 2, dispel scroll
Bruiser BSB- Stubborn Crown, Sword of Striking
10 Trappers
2 Cats
12 Ironguts, full command, banner of discipline
8 Leadbelchers
4 Mournfang, Gleaming Pendant
3 Maneaters with additional hand weapon, scout, ItP
2 Ironblasters

I played against a WoC list, 3 huge blocks, backed up by Tzeentch lord on disc, warshrine, dogs etc. My plan as I have only been playing WFB for a few games was SW like in nature- shoot the crap out of the army, drop lots of comets on it, then counterassault what was left. I ended up winning a close game, but found the mournfangs did nothing. I couldnt risk running them up early as any of the 3 huge blocks would crush them easily and even the lord could hold his own against them- so I sat them at the back edge with the rest of my army. In the end, I charged a reduced block of warriors, only rolled 3 impact hits, wounded 1, then lost 2 mournfang and killed 1 more warrior- obviously I lost miserably then ran off the board. In my first few games against high elves and tomb kings the mournfang did well, although they were also backed by Maw magic. I was thinking in this list, the mournfang dont belong. 4 Mournfang aren't all that against dedicated close combat armies and leadbelchers really dont want to get into combat, even if they are ogres. So, I am thinking of dropping the mournfang, and adding 5 more Maneaters to my 3 and giving them brace of pistols with the champion having a greatweapon (5 str 7 attacks, yes please!). Now, I was thinking several things I would like some experienced ogre players to comment on-

1. I was thinking of putting my BSB and Butcher in the Maneater unit to beef it up, while my general slaughtermaster goes with the Ironguts. My plan was to give the maneaters swiftstride and sniper, backed by the banner which gives +1 movement- so move 7 with swiftstride, then add the BSB with the banner which allows you to reroll charges (which would almost guarantee getting those d3 impact)- however, in researching the rules, I think the maneaters cant use swiftstride with the bsb in there so either I need to drop swiftstride (Which I think is better than the banner which allows you to reroll charges, since you can use swiftstride to flee) or remove the bsb and butcher (Sigh). I think sniper is okay with Heavens as you can put Harmonic convergence on your whole army (units within 12 inches) fairly easily, so now if the maneaters are within 12 they hit on 5's but the Harmonic convergence makes it much easier (12 shots, 4 hit, reroll 2, good chance of getting 1 more, then 2 wounds, good chance to reroll 1) So you are almost guaranteed to get 2 wounds on toughness 4. But, with the added movement you can also charge and do just as much damage in close combat as mournfangs and have higher impact hits ( 2 ranks of 4, so str 6). So do I keep the swiftstride, or simply drop it for say stubborn, and stick in the BSB and Butcher to bolster the unit? Or, do I keep the swiftstride and sniper, drop the +1 move banner and add in the Dragonhide banner. Maneaters have the +1 intiative so they have a chance to use the banner in both turns, rather than just their opponents turn. I did have a question, does the banner (not the breath weapon) rerolls happen each time you charge? Of course Harmonic convergence does the same thing as the banner so it doesnt seem as necessary. I was also going to add in a gorger, if the enemy wants to sit back away from the sniper effects, first he is going to get hit by ALOT of firepower each turn and has a better chance of getting hit by the gorger. Am I was off base here and can someone help me in the maneater unit creation? Remember, I want to hang back with the rest of my army, and counterattack when necessary (When all my redirectors are gone, but with 2 sets of trappers and 2 cats I have plenty and the trappers work fine in this role as the army hangs back a turn or two anyways giving them a head start).

[CmdrLaw]

I have been looking at Skrag recently and while he does cost a boat load of points, when comparing him to a tooled up lvl 4 SM (385pts) he is only 40 points more expensive and has a whole world of additional benefits, T6 WS5 S5 LD9, Killing Blow, Terror plus the cauldron buffs. Even if not using Gorgers seems very strong.

He is now looking much better value in my book, although he looses some of the tricks you can pull off with a normal SM (Sickle and Greedy fisting).

Anyone had much luck with him?

[CmdrLaw]

Duplicate post.

[minionboy]

The two maneater abilities I expected to be amazing - scout and sniper - I've found to both be a bit "meh". Occasionally it'll pay off but both are situational. That's not to say big units with pistols are a bad idea. I find that Poison + Pistols is an incredible combo. After that I find the next ability up to you. Swiftstride will always be useful. Scout is good but it makes the unit extremely vulnerable. Sniper ... can work. What I tend to find is that it is very hard to actually assassinate anyone with sniper maneaters because the enemy will try to keep his characters out of LOS. That said, it can still have an effect on the game because this can often influence the enemy into putting his characters in suboptimal positions.

In the end I think I'm going for Poison and Swiftstride or Stubborn on my maneaters.

I've used the classic sniper+poison maneaters a few times, but overall I have never been impressed with pistols. Typically, I find myself wanting to charge in with their 5 S5 attacks at just about any opportunity, so lately I've switched to a unit of 5, in one rank, with additional hand weapons (and 1-2 great weapons) and the Banner of Eternal Flame, Razor Standard or +1M banner (M7 swiftstride, who needs cav?), depending on my mood. Combine that with Swiftstride and stubborn and that block has proven to be just disgusting. I've tried out poison on them, but I haven't been that impressed with the results, since S5 wounds most things on 2's, and just about everything else on 3's.

[Walls]

Anyone have thoughts on heaven with Ogres? I can see a few of the spells being of super good use with the right army. I am thinking the rerolling 1's is awesome for Mournfang, for example. -1 to hit a WS army and -1 LD against an all fear causing army ain't bad. Just curious. Really toying with a level 4 Heavens in my next list.

[Danny76]

Hey guys,

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the optimum size and load out for Mournfang Cav?
Are units of 4 best or bigger/smaller?
Do people take command or parts of it at all or just run them as they are?

Thanks!

[Jericho]

Anyone have thoughts on heaven with Ogres? I can see a few of the spells being of super good use with the right army. I am thinking the rerolling 1's is awesome for Mournfang, for example. -1 to hit a WS army and -1 LD against an all fear causing army ain't bad. Just curious. Really toying with a level 4 Heavens in my next list.

I've always said that in the right list, re-rolling 1's is potentially huge. Especially handy if they have a good armor save and small model count, since a single batch of bad rolls can ruin their day (Mournfangs or most armies have heavy cav). That being said, I'm not sure that all of the units in the OK book would benefit from Heavens as much as they might benefit from augment spells. A L4 wizard for insurance against bad dice isn't an investment I would always want to make.

[Lord Inquisitor]

Hey guys,

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the optimum size and load out for Mournfang Cav?
Are units of 4 best or bigger/smaller?
Do people take command or parts of it at all or just run them as they are?

Thanks!

Personally I like 4 with standard and musician, ironfists and heavy armour. I think that's close to the consensus. They don't need a champion and lacking a champion means the standard bearer is the last one standing. Standard bearer can take a magic banner (dragonhide, flaming or glittering pennant are popular).

[vcassano]

I prefer units of 2 with a musician (Heavy armour and ironfists of course). Nice and cheap, yet packs a huge punch and lacks the enormous footprint and cost that big units have.

[Danny76]

Ok cool. I'll try out both perhaps and see what I prefer.

Follow up questions.

Leadbelchers - Is a unit of 4 best rather than 3 assuming points allow?

Any unit - Most lists I'm seeing are just musician standards but no champ. Is he completely not worth it just for that attack do you think?

[RTGamer]

Mournfangs as 3 units of 2 worked wonders today.

Not really tried Leadies but I hear more is better with them in almost all cases.

[Axeman1n]

Do ogres work without shooting elements? For 2k, I was thinking of running 2x12 Bulls with FC, and 18 IG w/FC. BSB +1Ld, SM w/Fencer+Glitter
What do you think?

[BUB]

Anyone have thoughts on heaven with Ogres? I can see a few of the spells being of super good use with the right army. I am thinking the rerolling 1's is awesome for Mournfang, for example. -1 to hit a WS army and -1 LD against an all fear causing army ain't bad. Just curious. Really toying with a level 4 Heavens in my next list.

I've been using Heavens for about 10 games now and it is so much better than Maw.. IMO.

First off the signature spell is incredible and is useful from turn 1 compared to Spinemarrow which you probably won't be using for a few turns and when you do chances are somethings gone wrong. The only bad spell in the entire lore is Windblast whilst the Maw has Spinemarrow, see above, Bullgorger, useful against a few armies, Braingobbler, useless against a few armies, and The Maw, facepalm. You WILL eventually get a game where you end up with all 3 of these crap spells.

Heavens allows you to shoot at tough threats from turn 1 with Bolt and Chain Lightning and crush bunched up Warmachines and force gunlines to approach with Comet. You can also save 50pts on the Dragon Hide Banner by casting Harmonic Convergence on your Mournfang or make your Leadbelchers more reliable. It's also a great Lore to grab last minute points during a tight game on your 6th turn by zapping units down to a few models.

P.S You'll be suprised how many people forget the Lore attribute as well.... bye bye harpies!

[Gork or Possibly Mork]

I've been using Heavens for about 10 games now and it is so much better than Maw.. IMO.

First off the signature spell is incredible and is useful from turn 1 compared to Spinemarrow which you probably won't be using for a few turns and when you do chances are somethings gone wrong. The only bad spell in the entire lore is Windblast whilst the Maw has Spinemarrow, see above, Bullgorger, useful against a few armies, Braingobbler, useless against a few armies, and The Maw, facepalm. You WILL eventually get a game where you end up with all 3 of these crap spells.

Heavens allows you to shoot at tough threats from turn 1 with Bolt and Chain Lightning and crush bunched up Warmachines and force gunlines to approach with Comet. You can also save 50pts on the Dragon Hide Banner by casting Harmonic Convergence on your Mournfang or make your Leadbelchers more reliable. It's also a great Lore to grab last minute points during a tight game on your 6th turn by zapping units down to a few models.

P.S You'll be suprised how many people forget the Lore attribute as well.... bye bye harpies!

Braingobbler and spinemarrow aren't that useful most of the time i'll give you that. Bullgorger while not the greatest is still good on ogres who sometimes have a tough time getting past high T and armour. Maw can be a pretty decent spell but it is a little risky. Toothcracker and Trollguts are both amazing especially the big versions are super sick. The attribute is also fantastic and easily trumps the situational heavens attribute.

Heavens is definitely a good lore but i think your understating the pros of maw and ignoring the cons of heavens. Not to mention you have to pay the butcher tax just to have access at all to it.

You are not guaranteed to get all the spells you want with heavens either.

[Mercules]

I agree that Heavens has some very nice synergy with certain Ogre lists. I will argue about it being more useful than the Great Maw in most situations.

Now, if you run a Guthorde list with a bunch of Mournfang and not much else in the list then Heavens is indeed more useful. I don't and therefor I find Maw much more useful.

Braingobler has a few armies it just doesn't work on so that is a hit or miss spell. Swaping it out for Spimemarrow isn't horrible though as while using smaller units there are times I fail double charges or need to be certain a unit doesn't run for a turn so I can flank the unit they are engaged with. Making them suddenly stubborn is handy. For the most part though, the big game winners are Bullgorger(MMU means more Bulls/Leadbelchers which get a nice boost from this spell), Toothcracker, and Trollguts, all of which can be used boosted to grant their affect to multiple units which with MMU is rather nice. Bone Cruncher is a fun way to deal with things with nasty armor saves like knights and such, things normal Ogres often have issues with. I even don't mind The Maw. It can be dangerous on a misfire, but I haven't had it do so yet and what it really seems to do is draw out dispel dice from my opponent.

As for early turn casting, I find my Firebelly does most of that, blasting away with Fireballs and such, then the Slaughtermaster takes over once in combat where the Firebelly's more direct damage is less useful and the buffs are more useful.


So basically, the lore you use, really should be based upon the army you use and one Lore does not fit them all.

[BUB]

@ Gork Or Possibly Mork There certainly are some pros to Maw; the lore attribute is fantastic for keeping your SM alive, although I managed to kill mine with it once! The reason you take Maw really is for the +1 Strength +1 Toughness and Regen and they are great spells especially for the buffed versions... but my problem with the lore is for the first couple of turns and sometimes the very last turn I find myself sometimes with power dice to spare as the majority of my units are not in combat and my other spells are just not worth risking a miscast for. Whilst with Heavens I always have something to do in every turn of the game and can chuck missiles around, buff my troops, hex their troops and just cause havoc compared to Maw where I have 3 buffs to cast and nothing else really worth bothering with and a smart opponent will know to save his dice for the buffs.

@Mercules You're spot on about using the right Lore for the right army and I just feel Heavens works best for me.

[Gork or Possibly Mork]

@ Gork Or Possibly Mork There certainly are some pros to Maw; the lore attribute is fantastic for keeping your SM alive, although I managed to kill mine with it once! The reason you take Maw really is for the +1 Strength +1 Toughness and Regen and they are great spells especially for the buffed versions... but my problem with the lore is for the first couple of turns and sometimes the very last turn I find myself sometimes with power dice to spare as the majority of my units are not in combat and my other spells are just not worth risking a miscast for. Whilst with Heavens I always have something to do in every turn of the game and can chuck missiles around, buff my troops, hex their troops and just cause havoc compared to Maw where I have 3 buffs to cast and nothing else really worth bothering with and a smart opponent will know to save his dice for the buffs.

@Mercules You're spot on about using the right Lore for the right army and I just feel Heavens works best for me.

Agreed, i just wanted to say it depends on the circumstances. Your army, playstyle and ofcourse the opponents. Mercules summed it up very nicely.

[Danny76]

I'm at a loss on kitting out my Ogre characters. I have a 3000 point list, with Tyrant, Slaughtermaster, BSB and Butcher (scroll caddy really), what should i put with them?
I was going for the fencers baldes, glittering scales and greedy fist on the slaughter master as it seems to be the best, but what about the bsb and tyrant, and should I give the butcher anything?
I have a unit of 8 Ironguts and two lots of 8 Bulls that they could go in. Was planning bsb and slaughtermaster in the ironguts, but undecided on the other.

Any ideas guys?

[BaSe]

I'm trying a shooty list soon with 2 lots of belchers and zero mournfangs. I intend to use a lvl 4 on heavens and lvl 2 maw. Has anyone else tried similar. I suppose it will be a sit back and then counter army.

[Mercules]

Not really "sit back". It's not a normal Gun Line style play. Basically you shoot things then follow up by charging them, you soften them up and then hammer them hard.