Tomb Kings or Vampire Counts

[vinush]

That's the problem though, if you compare him to a wizard he's a good deal, until you factor in miscasts, etc. All it would take is an unlucky roll on two dice and your army falls apart.

The VC army is too reliant on him to take risks with him, especially now everything can be wounded on 6's...

THE \/ince

[AlphariusOmegon20]

And how many points does your vampire lord come in at?

Mine comes in at 395, which is way cheaper than the Greater Daemon that Snottlebocket mentioned. ( mine tend to come in at around either 550 {Bloodthirster} or 635 {Lord of Change})

Is mine designed for combat? Nope, That's what my Vamp hero is for, the Lord is for buffing units! The hero is the killing machine.

I also don't use any Necromancers, and I seem to do ok against most armies.

[Algovil]

That's the problem though, if you compare him to a wizard he's a good deal, until you factor in miscasts, etc. All it would take is an unlucky roll on two dice and your army falls apart.

The VC army is too reliant on him to take risks with him, especially now everything can be wounded on 6's...

THE \/ince

I agree that we are reliant on him to a big extent, the cause of my losses with VC is often that the enemy overwhelm my Lord bunker and his unit and him with in crumble to dust. Miscasts can also be dangerous. The good part is that the Vampire lore is low cast, you can often use two dice for most spells, at most three, with a necromancer backup you can afford to roll a double one, once in a blue moon. This should make the risk for your lord getting lost into chaos minimal. Actually the Carstein Ring is not that bad, it does protect vs infernal Gateway and the Miscast result, by FAQ, therefore I actually think that it should protect vs instant kill from other effects, 13th spell, purple sun, dwellers, etc, because the ring returns the wielder from DEATH, by the means mentioned, by FAQ it does not simply protect him from wounds. If you use a caster Lord, I seldom find need for magic items, other than for protection, give him the Ring, maybe the flayed hauberk, or for fun, black periapt + something. The enemy does seldom target your lord with attacks, instead they go for the unit, to crumble him, with the ring, 5/6 times you are safe from this.

I find you can not go all out with six dice like you can with other wizards, if we miscast, we suffer, no lore of life for example, no items to lessen the effects. I lost a few dice from that as well. Therefore I now find the lore of the Vampires together with MotBA and a lvl3 Vampire lord a nice buy, combine with Vampires with other lores if you need another lore.

Maybe that is the way to go, the Carstein ring, lore of Vampires, a more reliable approach, in contrast, with the six dicing people seem to use. Together with the cart, maybe a balefire coach and forbidden lore Vampire you have good magic defence and offence.

[Ville]

By the time a vampire lord is useful he costs as much as a greater demon and the game is still full of characters and creatures that can squish him like a bug.

My usual Vampire Lord costs 380 points. He is a beast in combat and can support the army with spells if the enemy isn't super magic-focused. I can call him useful and still believe Greater Daemons are more expensive. As I said, a Vampire General should just avoid the nastiest stuff and give them Zombies or something else to chew on.

Just to say something on topic as well, I also think that both Undead armies fit really well in a Bretonnian campaign. Just decide if you like the gothic horror of Vampire Counts, or the Indiana Jones/Mummy/Final Fantasy vibes of Tomb Kings, better.

[Darnok]

Please return to the topic this thread was started for, and take tactical discussions about vampire lords/heroes elsewhere.


Darnok [=I=]


[/mod]

I think this one is difficult to decide. I'll take the view from the bretonnian side, maybe that will give you and your brother some arguments to work with.

Bretonnia has connections to both VC and TK. The damned city of Mousilion gives a great story to play around with undead of the vampiric variety. Teere is also the infamos Red Duke, which could be a great start for a knighly themed VC army (lots of Black Knights and Blood Knights, conversions using bretonnian parts, etc.) - if you get your hands on the content and modify it for 8th, you always could play the Circle of Blood campaign too. On te other hand, Bretonnia has fought quite some battles against Khemri, so a map based campaign in the wild deserts is just as propable as in Bretonia itself.

From the perspective of models and rules, TK stand out with a pretty new armybook and an updated line of models. But this one is a very personal choice, as you should like the models and the playstyle. Especially concerning te latter I advise for some more online research, as VC and TK play quite differently in my opinion.

I really think both armies work very well as adversaries against Bretonnia. A campaign in either Khemri or Bretonnia itself can work well. I feel in the end it comes back to what you prefer from the models, background and playing style...

That said, the internet can't make your choices. You and your brother need to decide it, and hopefully you find some useful ideas here. Have a look over them, and then sit down and make up your own damn mind.

[Rosstifer]

You have to fill 25% core. There's no real amazing core.

I have to disagree here, Ghouls are bloody brilliant. Masses of Poison attacks, T4, easily raisable with the right powers... two units of 40+ Ghouls is something that should be feared on the table top. They are some of the best core in the game.

Otherwise I agree with you.