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Thread: beastmen young

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    Chapter Master ArtificerArmour's Avatar
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    beastmen young

    So, beastmen. I'm a little new to fantasy, so forgive me, but I'm extremely interested in certain aspects of beastmen recreation. [insert beastiality jokes here).

    So, firstly, are their female beastmen? Or do they breed like the fimir and forceably impregnate human hosts?

    Secondly, how are the young treated? What about mutated young, say albino or one with a tentacle instead of a tail. Revered, or cast out?

    Its difficult to make a judgement, for the armybook and all other material I've read said beastmen are not human, and not beast, whilst simultaneous being both as well.

    Animals, when young are "not right", will cast out the said infant. Humans would nurse. Beastmen are of chaos however, so these mutations would perhaps be encouraged.

    Basically, I'm starting an albino beastman army. Albinos are a genetic mutation which occurs randomly in animals. I'm wondering whether a warherd would cast an albino out?

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    Chapter Master Jack of Blades's Avatar
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    Re: beastmen young

    Quote Originally Posted by ArtificerArmour View Post
    breed like the fimir and forceably impregnate human hosts?
    They do what?

    My armies just received a new mortal enemy

    Now...Never seen Beastman females. Perhaps they can do it the same way Fimir do but it's a rare occurrence if it even works at all (for more reasons than just incompatibility; they'd have to keep the woman alive and/or return to where she is etc). But I assume that some very unfortunate women (and men... who may either be used the same way disliked people get used in nasty prisons, because the beastman is too stupid to tell it isn't a female or (related to stupidity) because some beastman think it'll work on the poor guy) will have had the unpleasant experience of that if some particularily vile warband feeling up to more than simple destruction came to their town.

    But I'd say Beastmen primarily procreate through aquiring fresh new mutants into Beastmen. This can be creatures born as mutants or warped into mutants.
    Last edited by Jack of Blades; 24-08-2011 at 15:22.
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    I just wish skaven had something "heavy hitter"-ish.

    1000 year-old lords of the walking dead? Chosen avatars of the dark gods leading horrible creatures from another dimension? Ancient members of the civilization who created the very world upon which we wage our wars? Bah! We're skittish mutant rats. We've got a bell. And we're going to ring it till your ears hurt bleed. Bitches.

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    Chapter Master ArtificerArmour's Avatar
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    Re: beastmen young

    Quick bit of googlefu revealed beastmen do have females (bovigors). Apparently, they're quite nice and polite and shun violence.

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    Chapter Master Jack of Blades's Avatar
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    Re: beastmen young

    Where did you find that? finding nothing like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroTwentythree View Post
    I just wish skaven had something "heavy hitter"-ish.

    1000 year-old lords of the walking dead? Chosen avatars of the dark gods leading horrible creatures from another dimension? Ancient members of the civilization who created the very world upon which we wage our wars? Bah! We're skittish mutant rats. We've got a bell. And we're going to ring it till your ears hurt bleed. Bitches.

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    Chapter Master ArtificerArmour's Avatar
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    Re: beastmen young

    There's a thread on here called "Beastmen women..." which talks about it. Quite interesting.

    Nothing about their young, however

    http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...light=beastmen

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    Re: beastmen young

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I'd say Beastmen primarily procreate through aquiring fresh new mutants into Beastmen. This can be creatures born as mutants or warped into mutants.
    This doesn't sound right to me. Beastmen are a race, albeit one born of Chaos. Doesn't seem right that they're just made up ad-hoc by people who've been warped by Chaos.
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    Chapter Master dragonet111's Avatar
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    Re: beastmen young

    Quote Originally Posted by ArtificerArmour View Post
    There's a thread on here called "Beastmen women..." which talks about it. Quite interesting.

    Nothing about their young, however

    http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...light=beastmen
    Wow one of my first thread I was curious to know if they were fleshed out.
    He's a semi-aquatic, egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flatfoot, who'll never flinch from a fray

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    Chapter Master Jack of Blades's Avatar
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    Re: beastmen young

    Quote Originally Posted by ArtificerArmour View Post
    There's a thread on here called "Beastmen women..." which talks about it. Quite interesting.

    Nothing about their young, however

    http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...light=beastmen
    Checking this when I get home from biking

    Quote Originally Posted by warplock View Post
    This doesn't sound right to me. Beastmen are a race, albeit one born of Chaos. Doesn't seem right that they're just made up ad-hoc by people who've been warped by Chaos.
    No? then I direct you to page 7 of the Beastmen army book

    I was going to elaborate on that because I suspected people would only take into accoumt that humans are turned into Beastmen - it can happen to animals too. And it doesn't just have to be random people out in the woods all by themselves, entire regiments might mutate into Beastmen or a whole flock of cattle etc. Then again they are supposed to be or at least suspected to be more numerous than humanity (IIRC) which seems hard on an ad-hoc level.
    Last edited by Jack of Blades; 24-08-2011 at 15:39.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroTwentythree View Post
    I just wish skaven had something "heavy hitter"-ish.

    1000 year-old lords of the walking dead? Chosen avatars of the dark gods leading horrible creatures from another dimension? Ancient members of the civilization who created the very world upon which we wage our wars? Bah! We're skittish mutant rats. We've got a bell. And we're going to ring it till your ears hurt bleed. Bitches.

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    Chapter Master ArtificerArmour's Avatar
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    Re: beastmen young

    I'd imagine, the beastmen being such a prolific race, would have a more robust mating system than the odd mutant kid left by a wood.

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    Chapter Master spetswalshe's Avatar
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    Re: beastmen young

    First off, there's very little information about this kind of thing (unofficially, women doesn't exist in Warhammer beyond lesbian vampires making out with each other and Bertha Bestraufrung with her thong), so not knowing how Beasties procreate is hardly the sign of a newbie and most of what follows will be speculation.

    There are female Beastmen, as far as we know (or can assume) - they are mentioned once, I think in a Gotrek and Felix story. There, they're referred to as gentle and sedate, rather than violent and sadistic, and one of them takes in a wounded character. Also note that Ghorros is explicitly mentioned as being an award-winningly fertile baby-daddy.

    I would assume that Beasties reflect common social animal mores; they tend to stick in herds or tribes, and women are protected by and subordinate to the males. If I was writing, I'd keep the females in the deepest, darkest, safest parts of the woods, staying in either all-female tribes that come together with the male ones in rutting season (male tribes could have a 'conjugal visit' as a part of their annual wandering cycle), or that they're simply not included in the raiding and war parties and left at home, so to speak. Big cats, apes and many other mammals will often form up into 'brotherhood' groups of younger or more boisterous males without a pride or who have left or been rejected from a non-alpha position, gathering together for protection and strength in numbers and with whom they'll roam around getting into trouble (though luckily raiding human settlements is a bit beyond most chimpanzees), and so the all-male nomadic raiding parties could be seen as this. So that might explain why we don't see them very often.

    On the subject of actual reproduction; Beastmen can be born to humans (either as 'gaves', congenitally-mutated or -deformed infants who are set out at the village borders, or as 'turnskins', people to whom beast-features come later on in life), and presumably they can be born to animals as well - that's down to the random nature of Chaos mutations. Some of these will be taken in by the Beastmen, some will simply be eaten; it depends on the feeling of the tribe, the nature of the mutations, and whether they look tasty. We can assume, though, that the vast majority are in fact born to Beastman parents. Again, if I was writing, I'd have Beastmen raping as well as pillaging, and taking human as slaves and breeding-stock like the Fimir, because it's more beastly of them, but I'd also point out that a lot of human mothers might struggle to survive a Beastman birth, let alone a 'mating session'. I'd guess that Beastmen have shorter gestation and childhood periods too, because that's how things usually go in fantasy works.

    Again, with treatment of infant mutations, it will depend on the tribe and the mutation. There are plenty of animals that will raise an obviously different offspring unless there's no chance it will survive, though they might favour the others (albinos usually aren't abandoned, for example, and cuckoos live by this kind of thing). Most Beasties, I think, would either revere them as especially blessed, or simply treat them as anyone else (or possibly take every opportunity to hand out a beating, out of bitterness that God noticed them and so they swan about thinking they're all that). Some tribes might have a leader who wants them to remain 'pure' but they're a pretty varied lot at the best of times. Albinos certainly could be seen as blessed - immediately being taken in by the local shaman or something - or as an outcast and a liability when you're trying to track down prey unseen. I think at least one entirely albino tribe has actually been mentioned before, so it's certainly not totally unheard of.

    I would, however, point out that if other Beastmen consider you blessed by the gods or particularly lucky or whatever, it doesn't mean you'll get an easy ride. You could be sought out by Beastmen who think your body parts, properly cooked, serve to ward off disease or the evil eye, or you could be sought out by shamans because of how useful your corpse is in potion-making. If it happens in real life, it happens in the Old World.
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    Chapter Master Jack of Blades's Avatar
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    Re: beastmen young

    I must say all the killing and Beastman-reproducing etc. doesn't bother me a slight bit as much as Beastmen and Fimir capturing and keeping female humans as breeding stock. That's so utterly vile it makes me want to start collecting Bretonnia, Empire, Wood Elves or something just so smash Beastmen armies . Then again humans doing the same things or worse isn't very rare...
    Last edited by Jack of Blades; 24-08-2011 at 16:37.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroTwentythree View Post
    I just wish skaven had something "heavy hitter"-ish.

    1000 year-old lords of the walking dead? Chosen avatars of the dark gods leading horrible creatures from another dimension? Ancient members of the civilization who created the very world upon which we wage our wars? Bah! We're skittish mutant rats. We've got a bell. And we're going to ring it till your ears hurt bleed. Bitches.

  12. #12

    Re: beastmen young

    Beastmen don't have a single source of 'young'. Aside from 'naturally' born beastmen there's beastmen randomly born to human parents (often left at the forest edge if not killed outright) and unfortunates who mutate into beastmen at some point during their lives.

    There's been various names for these over time so it's a little inconsistent. The name 'gave' for instance has been given to both beast babies. left at the forest edge, who were considered holy by the beastmen and a few editions later 'gave' was the name given to shamans. If I remember right turnskins (first human, later mutated into beastmen) have also been called gaves in one edition, that time around gaves were the lowest of the low instead of holy.

    These days beastmen tend to have a goat and bovine theme. If you go further back in the warhammer fluff they could be any amalgation of human and animal. Elk, bird even shark headed beastmen have been around. GW likes to fortify their themes though. (to the point where chaos is now uniform, go figure)

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    Re: beastmen young

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I must say all the killing and Beastman-reproducing etc. doesn't bother me a slight bit as much as Beastmen and Fimir capturing and keeping female humans as breeding stock. That's so utterly vile it makes me want to start collecting Bretonnia, Empire, Wood Elves or something just so smash Beastmen armies . Then again humans doing the same things or worse isn't very rare...
    If makes you feel better, they probably don't do it consciously for the purpose of procreation, they'd rape them because, well, why not? It's not like they'd limit it to human females either, they'd probably be just as likely to rape males, livestock, each other, etc. The Beasts have always been a "society" where any crime is allowed, and nothing is taboo. Most of the descriptions of the Beastmen imply that all the horrible things they do, aren't done out out of some twisted instinct, but a deliberate act of spite. They don't enjoy brutally murdering and torturing their enemies because of some instinctive urge, they enjoy it because they know that their enemies hate it. To be honest, I've always been confused as to why people seem to find the implication of rape as proof the Beastmen are horrible, when they're outright stated to eat children.The Beastmen aren't nice people. Any realistic portrayal of them would probably be classed as gratuitous torture porn at best.

    Oh wait, that probably didn't make you feel better, did it
    Quote Originally Posted by spetswalshe View Post
    R-Love got it right (while unconsciously betraying his obvious desire for a harem of Beastman sex-slaves in the process)

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    Chapter Master Xisor's Avatar
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    Re: beastmen young

    Quote Originally Posted by ArtificerArmour View Post
    I'd imagine, the beastmen being such a prolific race, would have a more robust mating system than the odd mutant kid left by a wood.
    There are a lot of woods in/around the Empire.
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    Chapter Master Hellebore's Avatar
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    Re: beastmen young

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    They do what?

    My armies just received a new mortal enemy
    Fimir females (Meargh) are sterile. In order to produce more fimir the warriors (Dirach iirc) steal human women to forcibly impregnate... hence their disappearance from warhammer for the last 20 years or so. I will be interested to see if their reintroduction in Storm of Magic results in a watering down of their background. Perhaps now they simply catch humans and 'convert' them to fimir....

    EDIT: As for beastmen young, perhaps they stay with their mothers for most of their development, the males only leaving when they are large enough to fight off other males in the bachelor herds and the females obviously just staying with the herd of other females lazing about waiting to be impregnated. Female beastmen seem like slightly more mobile/less corpulent skaven broodmothers.

    Hellebore
    Last edited by Hellebore; 25-08-2011 at 00:24.
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    Re: beastmen young

    ArtificerArmour, I hate to say it, but your Google-fu results are wrong. Bovigor aren't female beastmen, they're beastmen with bovine features, just like the majority of beastmen are caprigor, beastmen with goat/sheep features.

    And before you correct me, yes, I use gor as both singular and plural. For some reason, gors just sounds incorrect to me, I'm weird like that.
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    Re: beastmen young

    From the short-story 'Blood and Darkness' in the novel 'Trollslayer':

    "She doubted that she would have survived if she had not encountered the beastwomen in the forest. If they had not taken her in and guarded her and fed her. She remembered them as oddly shy and gentle compared to the gors and ungors. They had acted on the instruction of their daemonic patron, that was now clear, but she was no less grateful to them for that."

    Please notice that human babies with mutations are usually abandoned by their parents in order to die from exposure (many are slain at birth). Many of them are rescued by beastmen, who regard them as a gift of the fell gods. But ask yourselves: are the beastmen really suited to take care of a child? Evidently not.

    So IMHO the beastmen hand the mutant human babies over the beastwomen, who will feed and take care of them. Most Beastwomen are mamals. Therefore they have breasts with nipples and produce milk to feed their offspring. Milk is the best food for a baby.
    Last edited by Aehren; 25-08-2011 at 08:20.
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    Chapter Master Urgat's Avatar
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    Re: beastmen young

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellebore View Post
    Fimir females (Meargh) are sterile. In order to produce more fimir the warriors (Dirach iirc) steal human women to forcibly impregnate... hence their disappearance from warhammer for the last 20 years or so.
    Hence nothing. That's what people assume, but beastmen have been doing just that for years and have not disappeared nor stopped raping people around.
    Last edited by Urgat; 25-08-2011 at 08:32.

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    Chapter Master mrtn's Avatar
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    Re: beastmen young

    Quote Originally Posted by ArtificerArmour View Post
    So, beastmen. I'm a little new to fantasy, so forgive me, but I'm extremely interested in certain aspects of beastmen recreation. [insert beastiality jokes here).

    So, firstly, are their female beastmen?
    Yes, though they are very rare in the background, along with the females of most species in the Warhammer world.
    Or do they breed like the fimir and forceably impregnate human hosts?
    That hasn't been specifically mentioned, and if anyone says it has I'd like a quote and source.

    Secondly, how are the young treated? What about mutated young, say albino or one with a tentacle instead of a tail. Revered, or cast out?
    They are revered, at least in the original fluff.

    Basically, I'm starting an albino beastman army. Albinos are a genetic mutation which occurs randomly in animals. I'm wondering whether a warherd would cast an albino out?
    They wouldn't. Beastmen revel in their mutatedness and see it as gifts from the gods.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArtificerArmour View Post
    Quick bit of googlefu revealed beastmen do have females (bovigors). Apparently, they're quite nice and polite and shun violence.
    Too quick as Lord-Caerolion pointed out. Bovigors have bull heads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urgat View Post
    Hence nothing. That's what people assume, but beastmen have been doing just that for years and have not disappeared nor stopped raping people around.
    They haven't outright raped people have they? It's a lot of talk about perverted bestial rites, but I can't remember reading the word "rape". Having sex with cultists yes, but not rape.

    In my view the beastmen of the empire is a stable mutation and procreate on their own in the woods. There's quite a few mentions of them doing just that in the fluff, especially in recent years. The fact that mutated human babies are revered should be proof enough that that's a special case and not the norm.

    Another point is that just because your gors and ungors don't have huge knockers doesn't mean that they're male, half of them could be female, how would you know?

  20. #20
    Chapter Master spetswalshe's Avatar
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    Re: beastmen young

    The Fimir weren't helped by an apparent lack of communcation between sculptors and writers, either. Ogre-sized models with human stats?

    Though I'm pretty certain they will have known what they were doing when they abducted human females. Once you've got things like language and metalworking, you've probably worked out the sex/pregnancy angle. At some point they're going to have dragged some peasant girls back and not brutalised them, for whatever reason; then they'll notice they aren't swelling up in the way that tells you when it's time to cut a new Fimir out of their bellies. Sure, they'll try different things ('maybe we out to shout at them more?' 'don't be ridiculous, it's clearly because they are not being fed enough grass and staked out in the sun'), but they'll get there.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrtn View Post
    They haven't outright raped people have they? It's a lot of talk about perverted bestial rites, but I can't remember reading the word "rape". Having sex with cultists yes, but not rape.
    That's true; the word 'rape' is not really in GW's dictionary. I don't think I've even heard 'ravish', except possibly in in-universe penny-dreadful style. There was a mention of cultists 'cavorting' with Beastmen, and WFRP will point out a few orgies here and there, but that's pretty much it.

    And the rape/murder divide is hardly anything new. Sex crimes are always more uncomfortable to talk about than violent ones, hence why they're a staple of internet comedy.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrtn View Post
    Another point is that just because your gors and ungors don't have huge knockers doesn't mean that they're male, half of them could be female, how would you know?
    Well, the lack of udders would be a suggestion. Although given GW's inclinations, Beastmen children are probably born almost-fully grown (biology be damned) and fed on human blood instead of milk (economics be damned) at a rate of a person per day (population and stomach sizes be damned).

    I did always want a Beastman warband lead by a freemartin, though. I imagine Beastfolk don't much care for gender as long as you've got some decent horns and can hand out a beating. The intersex angle would be played up though because I feel creepy just sculpting human breasts, let alone Beastman ones. I firmly believe part of the GW no-girls-allowed rule is because having to paint cleavage (and it'll be a long time before sculptors learn it isn't always appropriate) is like admitting to yourself that what you are doing is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by snottlebocket View Post
    There's been various names for these over time so it's a little inconsistent. The name 'gave' for instance has been given to both beast babies. left at the forest edge, who were considered holy by the beastmen and a few editions later 'gave' was the name given to shamans. If I remember right turnskins (first human, later mutated into beastmen) have also been called gaves in one edition, that time around gaves were the lowest of the low instead of holy.
    Yeah, they've jumped back and forth quite a bit. Ungor used to outnumber Gors by a great deal, now they're in the minority (where they should be, if you ask me; why bother calling Beastmen big, powerful and horned when most of them aren't?). 'Bray' is a Beast term for 'punk' or 'worthless', yet the most important figures in Beast society are called Bray Shamans. I wish GW would stop using absolute terms; some tribes will count them as blessed, others as the butt of painful jokes, others as just another human for the pot.
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