Codex: Sisters of Battle (Player Edition)

[Haravikk]

I decided to post a new topic since the last one hasn't been touched in a little while, and got a bit bogged down.

Besides which, the new version of the list is based heavily on the recent Codex: Sisters of Battle White Dwarf list which, while very flawed and full of bad entries, has some good ideas for a 6th edition version of the Sisters going forward.

Main changes include:

• Adepta Sororitas
  
  • Restoration of a lot of lost options.
  • Much more accessible Faith system, with multiple powers for some units.
  • Repressor, and improved vehicle options.
• Ecclesiarchy
  
  • Better balanced/more useful characters.
  • New units:
    
    • Missionaries - lightweight Infiltrator squad, useful as high-risk anti-tank unit, disruption or slowing advances on objectives.
    • Zealot Mobs - cheap but unreliable meat-shields due to Rage, no armour, and mixed weapon loadout.
• Ordo Hereticus
  
  • Ordo-Hereticus Strike Teams and Assassins provide inquisitorial toys.
  • Karamazov (same as Grey Knights) and Witch Hunter Tyrus as some good inquisitor characters.

Plenty more, so take a look!

Download links:

• Version 0.7.1 [DropBox | Deposit Files]
• Version 0.7.0 [DropBox | Deposit Files]
• Version 0.6.5 [DropBox | Deposit Files]
• Version 0.6.4 [DropBox | Deposit Files]
• Version 0.6.3 [DropBox | Deposit Files]
• Version 0.6.2 [DropBox | Deposit Files]
• Version 0.6.1 [DropBox | Deposit Files]
• Version 0.6.0 [DropBox | Deposit Files]
• Version 0.5.1 [DropBox | Deposit Files]
• Version 0.5.0 [DropBox | Deposit Files]
• Version 0.4.0 [DropBox | Deposit Files]
• Version 0.3.1 [DropBox | Deposit Files]
• Version 0.3.0 [DropBox | Deposit Files]
• Version 0.2.0 [DropBox | Deposit Files]
• Version 0.1.0 [DropBox | Deposit Files]

[Still Standing]

I think I will give this a go tomorrow! I will let you know how it goes.

[Haravikk]

Oh, just wanted to note that I think the version I uploaded has the Repressor underpriced, it should be 60 points as I initially forgot to update the cost after including Extra Armour.

[Still Standing]

I know I promised to play a game with that book, but it is a difficult time at the moment, but I will do I promise!

[Helicon_One]

Why base it on the worthless WD list?

Bring back the old Faith system, points values, statlines, Immolator fire points, etc. The new list is terrible, any attempts to polish that **** are ultimately futile.

[Haravikk]

Why base it on the worthless WD list?

Like it or not, I think it's a good list in terms of bringing everything in line with 5th edition, and I think the new Faith system is good, as it's nice and simple.

The problems are simply that some costs are insane, we've lost a heap of options that were actually good, and the new faith system doesn't scale at all (laud hailer is useless, simulacrum imperialis is over-priced etc.).

These issues I've tried to address, though of course I've added a bunch of stuff too for fun, but with many squads having multiple Faith powers (including the Canoness, making her a bigger boost to units), cheaper Simulacrum Imperialis, and useful Laud Hailers that are able to stack, I think the Faith system becomes very workable and useful.


Basically I think the core ideas of the White Dwarf list are solid, Cruddace just seems to have completely lost the plot while pricing everything, or entirely overlooked the glaring issues with an otherwise sound Faith system, and then charged us points for it.


I played a bigger game using the White Dwarf list, plus my Faith changes, and it's actually quite playable. The main thing that needs expanded beyond that though are a complete rethink of equipment and vehicle prices within the context of the army, as the Immolator and Penitent Engines are too expensive, which I've tried to do in my list, though I do tend to get carried away

[Epicenter]

Unfortunately, I haven't playtested your Codex, but I was looking through it and noticed something you probably want to change: Sarissas. As of 0.5.0 version, a Sarissa turns a bolter into an assault weapon. I think what you meant to say was that a unit can rapid-fire its bolters and still assault. The way it's done now, the Sarissa turns a bolter into an Assault weapon is a bit ambiguous as it can be read as being able to move+fire out to 24" (which is a strangely useful ability but silly for a CC attachment).

[Haravikk]

The way it's done now, the Sarissa turns a bolter into an Assault weapon

Ah, Assault Weapon was a rule I added at the start of the codex which clarifies what it means (can assault as if they had fired an Assault weapon), in my current working copy I decided that that was a silly way of doing it though and have it described more along the lines you've mentioned, sorry for the confusion

[ArtificerArmour]

Give Celestians inferno bolt ammo, meaning they reroll to wound. I think Celestians, being the best of the best, should have a slightly better ammo than a normal sister.

[Haravikk]

Uploaded version 0.5.1! It's got a heap of minor updates from play-testing as well as some extra options for the Ordo Hereticus side. I've a few more ideas for Ecclesiarchy themed stuff, but I haven't decide what I want to do with them yet.

Anyway, feedback appreciated!

[darkstar]

Praxedes is a no brainer, being as cheap as a cannoness with power weapon and the cloak, and providing a few extra goodies.
The Cannoness entry has the cloak twice.
Jacobus' stats change in the buying bit compared to the explainy bit.
the repentia powers that make them I5 is far too good compared to their 1 attack back if they die before their attack power.

Other than these issues, my comments are that this is an admirable effort.

[Haravikk]

Thanks for the feedback! I've added some corrections for the next version, not sure how I managed to mess up Jacobus' stats, though since it's an issue raised, does it really make sense for Jacobus to be the same as a Confessor, when he's actually just a renowned missionary? Which stat-line do you think makes most sense, the weaker one with a slight price reduction, or the stronger one as it is now? I'm planning to revisit Kyrinov anyway to try to distinguish him a bit further, since he should be quite a hefty character really.

Just wanted to note; with the Repentia I made the Spirit of the Martyr Act of Faith into a special rule, so the effect is always on so they're not forced to choose which act they want. That said, striking at Initiative 5 renders Spirit of the Martyr obsolete, but it's still of benefit if the act of faith fails, or the enemy has mixed Initiative.

[Haravikk]

Solution I'm considering for Jacobus is to make him a special unit champion for Missionaries, as this makes most sense really. This way he'd be cheaper with the reduced profile.

It leaves the Ecclesiarchy HQ page a bit reduced though, not sure if there's another good special character for replacing him with, Armandus Helfire maybe? Though he's not immediately more interesting than Kyrinov really.

[gleryff]

Hello, I really like this codex. Good work so far. I have a bunch of typos to point out, if that's ok, since some of them have been carried over from 0.5 to 0.5.1, and some points which require clarification, and maybe a suggestion or two.

Errors (I think):
Helena The Virtuous has her Special Rules in the Forces Of The Adepta Sororitas section copied over from Praxedes - she probably shouldn't have Preferred Enemy or Independant Character.
Feel No Pain and Stubborn aren't listed in the Keepers Of The Faith entry in Servants Of The Ecclesiarchy section.
Sisters Repentia still have Dirge Of The Penitent in the Forces Of The Adepta Sororitas section.
Repressor's profile states "A Rhino has a transport capacity of twelve models..."
Repressor's full profile hasn't updated to side armour 12.
Cloak of St. Aspira is listed twice for Canoness.


Questions:
Can a squad still use Acts Of Faith if they are joined by a character without this rule (who obviously won't benefit from them).
Does Praxedes' Sceptre multiply wounds caused by its special rule, as well as the basic wounds it causes?
Does Undying Compassion only relate to on foot movement, or can transports carrying them use this?
The Passion, in some cases, will reduce initiative (if St Celestine uses it) and Hand Of The Emperor will reduce strength (if a model with an eviscerator uses it). Is this intended?
Can The Passion be used for other initiative purposes (Hit and Run test) or is it solely for striking order?
Does Spirit Of The Martyr enable models which aren't in base contact + 2" to hit if they have been removed as result of a combat - meaning that if enough wounds are taken the whole unit will hit regardless of their position?
Is the purpose of more than one Hospitaller in the Hospitaller unit to simply enable them to keep on working if one dies, or does having more than one actually improve their effect?
Does the Book Of St Lucius still enable a unit to use the bearer's unmodified leadership in assault (making it better than Icon Of Chiros)?
There's a few ICs that have fearless, none of which state that they grant it to their squad. Is this intended?
Tyrus's weapons "provide the bonuses of a combined Power Fist and Force Weapon" - is that a choice of PF or a FW, or a FW that strikes with double strength?
Do stat bonuses from more than one acolyte of a given type stack?
The Canoness' wargear implies that there is a choice between Book Of St Lucius and special ammunition, and you may not take both. Is this so, and if so why?
Do Psyker Inquisitor's powers affect his squad (as if they were Acts Of Faith)?


Suggestions:
In general what irks me most about this and the previous codex is the "meh"-ness of standard Battle Sisters. They're less cost-effective in shooting than Dominions and Retributors (even with bolters) so their main point is gaining objectives and keeping them, which both of the make-something-else-a-troop HQ choices give a better (hardier, faster or both) option for. I'd like an act of faith which only they get, either something to improve Shield Of Faith in dire circumstances, or improves bolter fire.
Giving Repentia scout is an interesting choice, it turns them from unusable gimmick into unlikely but scary gimmick. I'd prefer an option that makes them more straightforward - such as a reduced cost Scout that doesn't give an outflank.
In terms of firepower, Heavy Flamer Retributors are probably stronger in the same role than Flamer Dominions most of the time, for a reduced cost. I think that it would be good to rebalance/reprice both so that long-range shooting is the obvious option for retributors and so that Dominions excel at short range. That said, Dominions are probably the most reliable platform for melta due to scout.
Celestians are stuck somewhere between OK assault unit and costly shooting unit. There is generally a better alternative for either role, apart from the interesting options allowed for by the Command Squad (relentless MMelta in a vehicle with 4++ is such an attractive idea). Power weapons would be a nice option, but probably a little much for the standard Celestian squad. Suspensors would be good too, but perhaps would make the Command Squad obsolete. I suppose what would be ideal is for Celestians to be able to compete with the hardy shooting/assault units of other armies (SM termies), but through faith rather than wargear (to make them more unpredictable).
Speaking of Command Squads, the Dialogus is rather expensive (if you consider that she and the Hospitaller contribute to the price of the Command Squad). I would think she should be capable of doing something else (another boltgun?) or the squad could come down in price / have reduced cost options.
Celestine is already terrifyingly awesome, and you made her better by letting her give them a superior troop option. Actually, I'm not complaining about this.

That's all for now, thanks for a great set of rules.

[Haravikk]

Wow! Thanks for the excellent feedback! I'll get to work on the errors you've picked up some time soon, and yeah most are typos or copy/paste errors but thanks a ton for finding them! So I'll skip to the questions and more unusual cases:

Can a squad still use Acts Of Faith if they are joined by a character without this rule (who obviously won't benefit from them).

Ah yeah, I would say they can but as you mentioned any character without the rule won't be affected by the act in any way; well, except for Light of the Emperor if it rallies the unit.

Does Praxedes' Sceptre multiply wounds caused by its special rule, as well as the basic wounds it causes?

Ah no, I'll have to clarify that, it's really just to inflict double Wounds which should be pretty powerful already.

Does Undying Compassion only relate to on foot movement, or can transports carrying them use this?

That's a very important question actually, I think I'll probably write in to clarify that vehicles are separate for the purposes of Acts of Faith. That is, passengers within them don't improve their chances at repair, and they can't benefit from the powers of their passengers. Easiest way may be to simply ignore a unit's faith while in a vehicle.

The Passion, in some cases, will reduce initiative (if St Celestine uses it) and Hand Of The Emperor will reduce strength (if a model with an eviscerator uses it). Is this intended?

Originally I was going to go with simple additive bonuses, but I think that this is a bit more balanced and makes you think twice about what acts you use and when, or rather with what unit composition.

Can The Passion be used for other initiative purposes (Hit and Run test) or is it solely for striking order?

I think it's fair game for Hit and Run and other forms of Initiative test. I guess it's like time slowing down around them (or rather, their perception) so they can respond almost inhumanly fast to things happening around them.

Does Spirit Of The Martyr enable models which aren't in base contact + 2" to hit if they have been removed as result of a combat - meaning that if enough wounds are taken the whole unit will hit regardless of their position?

Hmm, currently the way I worded it I suppose you'd resolve it normally for models where they are (i.e - as if they were still standing), but if they've been killed it does imply that an enemy did go up to them and slice them down, so it might make sense for them to always make the attack, even if they'd normally be unable to. Not sure about that, as I've messed with them a fair bit so their balance is likely way off still.

Is the purpose of more than one Hospitaller in the Hospitaller unit to simply enable them to keep on working if one dies, or does having more than one actually improve their effect?

Yeah it's purely to keep the bonus going, since I haven't though of a way to have extra Hospitallers boost the strength without it being really overpowered. One possibility was to have it be FnP (6+), with a +1 bonus for having three or more Hospitallers in the squad, and a further +1 for Cleansing Light. Either that or starting at 5+, able to get a massive 3+ FnP (on power armoured units that's pretty nasty!), but bumping their points a bit more.

Does the Book Of St Lucius still enable a unit to use the bearer's unmodified leadership in assault (making it better than Icon Of Chiros)?

Ah, hmm, I did have Icon of Chiros originally as Fearless, but I shuffled things about a bit so it's probably a bit weak now. I'm thinking maybe the effect should be reversed almost, such that Books of St. Lucius give small Stubborn bubbles, while the Icon of Chiros does that plus grants Kyrinov's Leadership? Not sure.

Tyrus's weapons "provide the bonuses of a combined Power Fist and Force Weapon" - is that a choice of PF or a FW, or a FW that strikes with double strength?

Ah, I've forgotten to change something there. In its current state it's the best of both (double Strength that can be powered up as a Force Weapon). But I think my current preference is towards allowing him to split his attacks instead, so he chooses how many Force Weapon, and how many Power Fist attacks he does, depends if the best of both seems too powerful, it's another one I'm not completely sure of, but his Inquisitor scale model is just awesome

Do stat bonuses from more than one acolyte of a given type stack?

They stack, like in Codex: Witch Hunters, as I always loved the witch hunter being better the more well chosen his retinue is, plus the retinue aren't all just cheap meat-shields, as they may be bolstering the more dangerous Inquisitor.

The Canoness' wargear implies that there is a choice between Book Of St Lucius and special ammunition, and you may not take both. Is this so, and if so why?

Ah, that sounds like a typo, I'll get that when I correct the rest.

Do Psyker Inquisitor's powers affect his squad (as if they were Acts Of Faith)?

It affects the squad, since the Act of Faith description mentions affecting the unit (or should). For normal Acts of Faith this will be overridden once I edit in that unfaithful characters don't benefit, but for an Inquisitor's psyker abilities, only the description of what the power/act does is important.

I'd like an act of faith which only they get, either something to improve Shield Of Faith in dire circumstances, or improves bolter fire.

I've been bouncing some ideas around, but I haven't settled on anything good yet. I do agree they should have their own power though.
One I considered was along the lines of the old Spirit of the Martyr, but where the Invulnerable Save was equal to the number of surviving models in the squad (so it'd be useless for a squad with 6 or more remaining, but allow smaller to potentially hold out against horrible odds). Crucially this would change as models are removed, so if four Wounds are suffered on a five sister squad then the first would have a 5+ Invulnerable Save, if she fails it then the next has a 4++ save and so-on. Not sure if it'd just end up being incredibly annoying to play against, but then it might not actually be as bad as the old Spirit of the Martyr in that respect, since a 2++ save on a lone or pair of battle sisters can still be overwhelmed.

Giving Repentia scout is an interesting choice, it turns them from unusable gimmick into unlikely but scary gimmick. I'd prefer an option that makes them more straightforward - such as a reduced cost Scout that doesn't give an outflank.

Yeah, something a bit more restricted probably does make sense, like a free move or whatever rather than the full Scout rule, as they're probably actually a bit too powerful in my list right now.

In terms of firepower, Heavy Flamer Retributors are probably stronger in the same role than Flamer Dominions most of the time, for a reduced cost.

Yeah, I agree on the whole point, going to have to go over them carefully but like you say, Retributors will probably be cheapest with Heavy Bolters, and not too bad to upgrade to Multi-Meltas, while Dominion will be the obvious choice for mass Flamers.

Celestians are stuck somewhere between OK assault unit and costly shooting unit. There is generally a better alternative for either role

Hmm, well I was kind of aiming for the flexibility of being decent at both to be a good thing for them. I think they're good enough at combat for now, plus they can take Storm Bolters, maybe if they were simply cheaper? As that lets you shift from decent combat and decent shooting, toward better shooting but at the cost of Sarissas (which could account for dropping Storm Bolter cost?)

the Dialogus is rather expensive

Hmm, not sure how that work out quite so badly, maybe a free Simulacrum Imperialis as part of the Dialogus?

Anyway, glad you enjoyed the rules! I'll work on adding the many fixes at some point!

[Assassin1]

I came across you codex after a very disappointing update to sisters of battle codex. It has alot of promise but alot stuff from the witch hunters codex should of been carry on. Such as celestian and seraphim both had I4 instead of I3 which makes them of some use in hand to hand combat. Saint celestine also has hit and run special rule with make her work well with the seraphim. The ability to give battle sisters rending through act of faith gave them edge them needed - having crap close combat and weak / short heavy weapons. Dominion squad being able to take 4 specials weapon per squad regardless if the squad was 5 or 10 strong.

Updates that should be include in future updates:

Exorcist tank being Heavy 4 instead of D6 shoots
Possibly give seraphim the option to update shield of faith to 5+ and give them 2+ armour saves

[theJ]

I don't play sisters myself, so I don't presume to know very much about the army, but if I ever played with or against them, I'd prefer a 'generic' list of Acts of Faith that any faithful squad can use, rather than dosens of them spread across all the different units. ... ...maaaaybe a few special acts on, say, the canoness and special characters (to make 'em more interesting), but separating them to this degree seems pointless, and more than a little confusing (especially when facing them).

Sure repentia aren't going to benefit from having a power that improves their shooting, but it's hardly going to do any harm either, is it?

[Haravikk]

Okay, new updates in the first post. Now, I completely forgot to track changes like I normally do so I'm going to try and note some of what I've done since v0.5.1.

First of all I've ditched Keeps of the Faith, as they didn't really add anything. I've also made Zealot Mobs into a multi wound swarm type unit, ideal for cannon-fodder and light combat damage.

I've tried to distinguish character types a bit more, with Canonesses as the only character providing the +1 bonus to faith rolls, as well as lending their Acts of Faiths to units, useful for applying them to units that don't have those abilities normally.
Preachers are now as they are in the White Dwarf codex except for the addition of Acts of Faith and Shield of Faith rules (not that the latter does much), so they can be affected by Acts of Faith but no longer have one of their own. Only Confessors now have an Act of Faith, but it's more of a double-edged sword granting Preferred Enemy and Fearless, with the focus on Confessors being more toward leadership bonuses, and access to ecclesiarchy stuff.
Inquisitors separated into two types, the basic Inquisitor as seen in Codex: Grey Knights but moved into Elites like Preachers, but getting a small points bump to compensate, and losing the ability to be a psyker. In addition there is now the Inquisitor Lord who is slightly better, but more crucially has access to psychic powers, and an acolyte retinue which can include the anti-psychic Void Psyker, or the extra psychic prowess of one or more familiars (plus more combat oriented acolytes).

The separation of the inquisitor types helps adjust some of their special squads, such as strike teams (now an Elites choice and basically just Storm Troopers with some tweaks) and Assassins.
Added Mandated Troopers, an Elites choice for bog-standard imperial soldiers that can be upgraded to represent a variety of allied forces including Adeptus Arbites. These can be used as Troops choice if personally led by a Preacher or Inquisitor.
Battle Sisters now have their own unique Act of Faith "Inner Light" which grants Feel No Pain for a single phase; it can seem powerful at first, however it's worth remembering that Acts of Faith must be declared at the start of a phase, meaning you have to predict whether that unit is likely to be shot at or not. This is partly to offset the loss of hospitallers as a unit, which I felt was too powerful. Helena the Virtuous is now a faith character that can use an act on more than one squad, and includes Inner Light as an act of faith; it requires more faith points, but can be useful, as she's otherwise not much of a combat character.

Hunter killer missiles are slightly more limited, with only the Exorcist and Adherers able to take any, though the Adherer can take two. Supernal Lander can take up to four, but I'm unsure whether a flier really adds anything to the force in practice when it now has a number of Scout options and an Infiltrate option.


Anyway, there'll be a ton of stuff that I've forgotten, so it's probably best to skim the whole thing

[Haravikk]

Not long since my last update, but I've put up v0.6.1 in the first post.

Mostly minor changes, with lots of equipment shuffling and a few new options, particularly for Inquisitor Lords and mandated troopers. A couple of notable additions include an extra Act of Faith for Canoness' allowing for a combined fire attack that reduces the effectiveness of armour or cover (impacting the roll, not the value, so AP is normal), but requiring two squads and two Faith Points to use it. Also an old option from one of my earlier versions, with the Adherer gaining side-sponsons as an in option in place of transport capacity, taking either Heavy Bolters or Hurricane Bolters, though only its turreted weapon may have inferno rounds or blessed ammunition (i.e the sponsons are plain).
Finally, inquisitor lords gain the option of purchasing orbital bombardments; a type of special attack that 'arrives' in Reserve, firing upon a targeted area for a random length of time. This option is intended to give a "pure" Ordo Hereticus force their own Heavy Support option. I'm thinking about a Fast Attack option for them, possibly the ability for a Led Strike Team to be taken as Fast Attack if desired.

[Haravikk]

Another update in the first post, dunno if anyone's even paying attention

Anyway, this one has some important changes, as I'm still trying to make a clear distinction between the character types. Some of the important changes include:

• Adepta Sororitas Acts of Faith are shooting oriented, with The Passion boosting a squad to Ballistic Skill 6. Hand of the Emperor is Celestian only (except for Praxedes and Celestine) granting Furious Charge in all rounds of combat, keeping a strong focus on shooting.
• This leaves Confessors as the only models with a Preferred Enemy Act of Faith, in addition they gain Divine Fury for Strength 5. Both abilities also give Fearless and Rage. Finally, they grant a combat resolution bonus, making the Ecclesiarchy markedly more close-combat oriented.
• Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor Lords get some more toys, and can purchase more powers (but can only use one per turn). The acolyte retinue has been brought more in line with the Grey Knights retinue, with Psyker acolytes being the only way for an Inquisitor Lord to use more than one power per turn. Banishers added with anti-psyker abilities (as opposed to anti-daemon), considered renaming them to Exorcists for clarity, not sure though.
  
  • Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor can become a psyker even though it's now an Elites choice, however this only grants them a Force Weapon (no additional powers), making them potentially very dangerous character killers.

As usual there are a bunch of other changes, see the full change-list for further details.