Grey Knights and Khorne Daemons Rules Pack for Download

[svr]

I should have been more clear, I meant existing missions with GK vs Daemons. I know regular Genestealers don't stand a chance. I guess I should try some of them.

What about 2 squad missions? I have 10 GKs so I could play them properly but 5 psi points per turn sounds way too much.

I think the halberd is easy to understand when you showed that example earlier.

[zerodemon]

If you're going to play two squads, make sure to operate each squads psi-points independently. They don't have a collective psi-point pool. When you opt to add a Warp Rift Token to the psi-point tracker, you have to place one token on each squads tracker, not just on one of them.

Most of the missions work well with GK vs. Bloodletters, though you have to adapt rules sometimes to fit the weapons, equipment or enemies. Adapt them as you see fit.

[svr]

Now that I have played few games with proper rules I see theres a good idea behind rift/psi point tokens but it is very flawed. Most games last less than 10 turns so you can easily put those 10 or so tokens on psi point tracker and it doesn't affect the game in any way because you will never have full 15 psi points because you start at 5 and slowly regenerate them and come turns 2-3 you will be spending them battling your enemy.

This also means that the Daemon player will never get to use his special units and thats a shame because they are cool.

So in my and my hulk buddies opinion your current system is useless. Needs a revamp.

I was thinking how to improve it and I had few ideas. What if psi point tokens were worth 2 psi points so if you put one on 15, psi points will drop to 13 instead of 14. It takes only 5 turns to drop to max 5 psi points and that is pretty much at critical level, you don't want to go lower than that. This system would see more special daemon units in play. I would of course remove 10 rift token instant win condition.

Another variation to current system would be max psi points 10, otherwise same rules as current system. I noticed many times you can regen to near 10 psi points so this would result in harder choices early on for the GK player.

Or why not just have 20 psi points, no regenerating. Adjust the rift tracker levels a bit and have it progress naturally by 1 every turn. Remove instant win. KISS.

[zerodemon]

"I was thinking how to improve it and I had few ideas. What if psi point tokens were worth 2 psi points so if you put one on 15, psi points will drop to 13 instead of 14. It takes only 5 turns to drop to max 5 psi points and that is pretty much at critical level, you don't want to go lower than that. This system would see more special daemon units in play. I would of course remove 10 rift token instant win condition."

This has merit. The rest is bulltwang. I say this because you have only played one mission tailored to the system which is intentionally short and relatively straightforward.

We tested the rules thoroughly over 7 tailor-made missions. You can play them soon. That said, if you don't like the system, play it how you will. I'm sure your way will work better.

Also, don't kiss me. I get eczema.

[svr]

No no, I'm not blowing you a kiss, it means Keep It Simple Stupid. Just like vanilla space hulk is, thats part of its charm.

If you are only building these rules for only a few missions then thats a shame because there are sooo many space hulk campaigns out there. I know I want to visit some of them with these new models.

I know everyone can play how they want but all I'm saying is your current system is useless in existing missions and I want it to work in them. Could you work on standard rules? You can always use special rules for your special missions.

[zerodemon]

Nope. That's for some other guy to do. There's a good reason why.

We play Space Hulk and find it very characterful. We enjoy the fiction of the 40k universe uniformly and like playing games which are tense and filled with the kind of action we see in the background.

I could weaken the Grey Knights for you. I could strip away the character from the rules. I could make is as simple as basic Space Hulk, remove the special CC rules and leave you standing there with 4 Terminators and a Librarian playing against daemons who have exactly the same rules as Genestealers.

That would be rubbish.

Sadly the 12 missions in the mission book were written for use with Terminators and a Librarian. I could go through all 12 of those missions and spend hundreds of hours testing to make sure that they all work with my Grey Knights rules. I'd have to adapt the mission parameters, drop interesting rules choices and chuck out a bunch of stuff.

That would be rubbish.

If you want simple, basic Grey Knights rules to work with the missions in the mission book, go write them. Use some, all or none of my rules to do so. I genuinely don't care. I don't have a monopoly on rules writing and I certainly don't claim to be King Great of Awesometown when it comes to my decisions.

I'm also not responsible for fulfilling your wish to use Grey Knights in the initial 12 missions from Space Hulk 3ed. We are soon to be publishing our mission pack. Then we are moving on to the Slaanesh Warp Rift rules vs. Dark Angels (and 3 more Grey Knight missions.) After that we're doing an Imperial Guard vs. Nurgle Space Hulk roleplay campaign. This stuff is mostly done. 75% on the Slaanesh/Dark Angel campaign.

The Khorne pack will continue to receive edits. We find the 7 mission campaign very fulfilling and play it often (we meet for 5 hours once a week and twice this month we've played the campaign, coming across none of the perceived problems you had in your last post, especially since 3 of the missions clock in at around 20 turns and many rely heavily upon the use of psi-point storage and use.)

Suicide Run is not the perfect example of a mission. It's a brief and simple playtest mission, allowing players to get their heads around the new rules. Unleashing a Juggernaught in that mission would result in all of your guys dying. Even a Herald is a handful in those close quarters. It is intentionally forgiving.

If you still find it useless, change it yourself. I cater to my own groups needs (gamers looking for more beyond those 12 missions.) I don't have the time for yours.

[svr]

You know there are more missions than those 12 that came with 3rd ed.? All the missions that were released for 1st and 2nd ed. give you propably over 50 missions. I have most of them printed so I can play them when I want, even some of the campaigns that require custom tiles. Your 7 or so missions will get boring very quickly no matter how special they may be, if only the rules were compatable with the existing 50 missions...

GW created rules for harlequins in Space Hulk. I have played them in harlequins specific missions and original ones and they work alright. Partly not as interesting because they don't use command points but they provide a change of pace if you are bored with terminators and want to play Hulk.

You clearly have skills creating new rules, making them interesting and actually to work somewhat. Thats why I'm asking you to do them. Please reconsider.

[zerodemon]

Honestly, I really don't want to dedicate so much of my gaming groups time to developing these rules. Look somewhere else.