Tactica: =][= Inquisition =][=

[bildo]

its easier just to take servitors and joks with cortez, and sit them at the back removing tanks than trying to figure out if a large unit of psykers is worth it, just take 2 like i do in your midfield units and use them to support with their pies. units of dca and crusaders go looking for fights, supporting units in the midfiled include 2psykers, 1 crusader for the 3++, and 3 warriors armed with plasma, melta and flamer in a razorback. o and assasins do what they do best from where ever they are, the callidus usually takes those hard to reach units, evesor stays behind a tank till he can get at some one and the vini stays back with cortez

solid tactics, the list supports each other which is something not many people have mentioned doing.

[bebe]

The chimera is more durable than either rhino or razorback. The razorback's strength is its weapons load out but it lacks fire points. The chim has five. Also the squads are cheap enough - if you do not overload them - to be spammed so sanctifying a squad is not a big issue if you build with redundancy.

I'm not a fan of mixing plasma and melta in the same squad. The ranges just don't mesh. I see no reason to take flamer acolytes when I have a chim with a heavy flamer already.

Really, we need to look at the number of vehicles needed at 1500 - 1750 - 2000. Obviously henchmen need to be mounted. I use only six at 1500 and eight at 1750 and this is a problem from time to time. The list is not typical though as I like the dual SR DCA squads and I use Psyfledreads. This keeps my chims alive longer as they are not priority targets. It is easy enough to get six chims in a 1500 list or six bolterbacks and still fit in some dreads.

[sethorly]

The chimera is more durable than either rhino or razorback.

Is this really correct? Chimera is 12/10/10, Rhino and Razors are 11/11/10 with Fortitude. If a transport is driving around or needing to turn sideways to provide cover for other units, it is sensible to assume your opponent will be going for and able to get the side armour.

[sethorly]

The big disappointment for me with the Inquisition is the maximum size of the henchman squad, which is far too small. I'd love to have a horde of storm bolter acolytes with carapace swarming towards the enemy lines.

Hmm let's see, that'll be 72 acolytes for 792 pts. Flamer and couple of meltaguns in each squad makes it 972: Coteaz 100: three psyflemen 405: total 1477. LOL! Raarrccgghh! Shame they'd all run away when sneezed at.

[Finn]

I'm actually having trouble mentally justifying 11 point henchmen, be they 4+ save and toting storm bolters or not... I feel like the squad is better protected in a Chimera, which adds more firepower for not many more points than adding carapace to the whole squad, and can move at the same speed while shooting...

[blackjack]

What are your thoughts on this load out.

Ordo Mallius, Term Armor, Psi Cannon

3 Multi melta Servitors
1 Plasma Gun Acolite
4 Storm Bolter Acolites
Chimera

207pts total.

Can Fire 4 storm bolters and a 4 shot psi cannon when moving, 3 muliti meltas, 1 plasma gun and a 4 shot psi cannon when stationary. All 24" weapons reasonable but not perfect synergy... Within similar points can anyone come up with anything more efficent for an inq with warband?

[Finn]

Honestly, that doesn't seem bad...I'm just not really a fan of units that try to do multiple things when the whole unit can't do them. For example, I like Noise Marines because every model in the unit has the same multi-role capability but can't stand it when people take schizophrenic upgrades like a Fist on a Devastator Sergeant.

That said, you're only spending 12 points to give those 4 guys storm bolters so maybe it's worth it. I think I would rather have 2 Weaponsmiths and 2 MM servitors, rather than the plasma gun acolyte and 3 MM servitors. It is 46 more points and screws with the "everybody shoots 24 inches" thing...but you're guaranteed to get an upgrade from the Jokaeros. Alternatively, just one Weaponsmith (in place of the plasma guy, so 21 points more) would probably be fine.

[Nostro]

I agree about the Jokaero, if you want to keep the price-point not too high I think the swap of the plasma guy with a monkey will grant you another multimelta or lascannon when stationary, not change your mobile firepower, and you get a decent chance to get a useful upgrade.

[bebe]

I'm a fan of the monkeys and try and include quite a few in my lists. I also like plasma but I want my plasma squads to be just that. I am going to shelve my DCA and SRs this weekend to test out a new list at my LGS.


1500 - Adeptus Mechanicus Explorator Force - The Fist of Omnissiah

HQ - Torquemada Coteaz. 100 (Magos Explorator) - goes w/ PC sevitors
EL - Venerable Dreadnought - 2x Twin-linked Autocannons - Psybolt Ammunition. 195 (Advanced Styges-Pattern War Robot w/Mechanicus Auto-repair System)
EL - Venerable Dreadnought - 2x Twin-linked Autocannons - Psybolt Ammunition. 195 (Advanced Styges-Pattern War Robot w/Mechanicus Auto-repair System)
EL - Venerable Dreadnought - 2x Twin-linked Autocannons - Psybolt Ammunition. 195 (Advanced Styges-Pattern War Robot w/Mechanicus Auto-repair System)
TR - 7x Henchmen Squad - 3x Meltagun Acolytes - 2x Stormbolter Acolyte - 2x Jokaero Weaponsmith - Chimera - Heavy Flamer - Multi-Laser. 181 (Skitarii Protectors in Maniple Explorator)
TR - 7x Henchmen Squad - 3x Meltagun Acolytes - 2x Stormbolter Acolyte - 2x Jokaero Weaponsmith - Chimera - Heavy Flamer - Multi-Laser. 181 (Skitarii Protectors in Maniple Explorator)
TR - 7x Henchmen Squad - 3x Meltagun Acolytes - 2x Stormbolter Acolyte - 2x Jokaero Weaponsmith - Chimera - Heavy Flamer - Multi-Laser. 181 (Skitarii Protectors in Maniple Explorator)
TR - 8x Henchmen Squad - 3x Plasma Cannon Servitors - 4x Stormbolter Acolyte - 1x Jokaero Weaponsmith - Chimera - Heavy Flamer - Multi-Laser - Searchlight. 179 (Skitarii Protectors in Maniple Explorator)
TR - 3x Henchmen Squad - 3x Plasmagun Acolytes - Razorback - Twin-linked Heavy Bolters - Psybolt Ammunition - Searchlight. 93 (Skitarii in Razorback with Enhanced Ammunition)

KPs 14
Vehicles 8
Infantry 33
Melta 9
TL Autocannons 6
Digi-weapons 7
Plasma 6
Multi-laser 4
Heavy Flamer 4
TL Heavy Bolter 1

Colours - rust red - grey and off white
Insignia - grey and off white skull cog symbol

I think Ven dreads fit the ad mech theme myself. I can see a tech priest elevated to Ven Dread status as he matures within the ranks.

- Now some think the Ven Dreads are too expensive but a GK with Psybolt, Fortitude and Aegis that is 3x as hard to pen and deadly accurate - one miss every four turns - is hard to pass up. I only worry about AP1 and if my opponent can get close enough to my Dreads to use melta I've done something wrong. I want to at least feel competitive.

- As you can see Coteaz will go with my plasma cannon servitors. Personally I prefer this squad over psykers and as I mentioned previously I don't think psyker acolytes fit an ad mech theme. In fact I have enough AT to use [lasma in two squads. My main anti-infantry is plasma, and flamers and my lone HB. But TL autocannons can sub in if needed.

- Four of my squads have monkeys as this is a shoot first list. I have no dedicated cc units. This is the list's Achilles heel. I'm not perfectly comfortable with that and when I do up in points I will rectify the situation but inserting DCA in there. At 1500 I'm less concerned. I can sacrifice a squad.

Unfortunately I'm not near finished painting and modeling these guys but ... meh ... better to test before finishing them off no?

[sethorly]

I'm with Finn on favouring dedicated-role units rather than mixed units, but perhaps I'm wrong. I do like the look of some of these mixed-bag henchmen units.

It does seem counter-intuitive though to fill a chimera with troops only half of whom can fire any turn either due to movement and Heavy rule or due to lack of firepoints. But maybe it works? Perhaps that is a strength of henchmen - that each unit can do a whole load of stuff? For instance, are DCA so killy that we ought to be including 1 or 2 of them in shooting units as a big F.U. to an assaulting enemy?

I'm beginning to think a good henchman list should have as many vehicles as possible. The latest variant of my list has 2 psybacks, a chimera, 3 rhinos, a DK and 2 psyflemen (I realise an Inquisition army shouldn't really have a DK in it but it's the only GK list I can realistically fit one in and I do enjoy using them). Bebe's list also has a lot of vehicles - I think this must be the way to go given that footslogging with Ld 8 isn't a hot idea.

[blackjack]

I end up having to give up one storm bolter to make my points fit (225 is the speed of light for this unit).

Ordo Malius Inq, Termie Armor, Psi Cannon

3 Multi Melta Servitors

1 Joker

3 storm bolter acolites
1 naked acolite

225pts

If I only wanted static fire power maybe its better to just drop the Ordo Inq to naked babysitter and buy 2 jaks, But with 24" guns there will almost certianly be a turn where i will want to move into postion and psi cannon is > laz cannon for almost anything.

[Sekhmet]

I'm a fan of the monkeys and try and include quite a few in my lists. I also like plasma but I want my plasma squads to be just that. I am going to shelve my DCA and SRs this weekend to test out a new list at my LGS.


1500 - Adeptus Mechanicus Explorator Force - The Fist of Omnissiah

HQ - Torquemada Coteaz. 100 (Magos Explorator) - goes w/ PC sevitors
EL - Venerable Dreadnought - 2x Twin-linked Autocannons - Psybolt Ammunition. 195 (Advanced Styges-Pattern War Robot w/Mechanicus Auto-repair System)
EL - Venerable Dreadnought - 2x Twin-linked Autocannons - Psybolt Ammunition. 195 (Advanced Styges-Pattern War Robot w/Mechanicus Auto-repair System)
EL - Venerable Dreadnought - 2x Twin-linked Autocannons - Psybolt Ammunition. 195 (Advanced Styges-Pattern War Robot w/Mechanicus Auto-repair System)
TR - 7x Henchmen Squad - 3x Meltagun Acolytes - 2x Stormbolter Acolyte - 2x Jokaero Weaponsmith - Chimera - Heavy Flamer - Multi-Laser. 181 (Skitarii Protectors in Maniple Explorator)
TR - 7x Henchmen Squad - 3x Meltagun Acolytes - 2x Stormbolter Acolyte - 2x Jokaero Weaponsmith - Chimera - Heavy Flamer - Multi-Laser. 181 (Skitarii Protectors in Maniple Explorator)
TR - 7x Henchmen Squad - 3x Meltagun Acolytes - 2x Stormbolter Acolyte - 2x Jokaero Weaponsmith - Chimera - Heavy Flamer - Multi-Laser. 181 (Skitarii Protectors in Maniple Explorator)
TR - 8x Henchmen Squad - 3x Plasma Cannon Servitors - 4x Stormbolter Acolyte - 1x Jokaero Weaponsmith - Chimera - Heavy Flamer - Multi-Laser - Searchlight. 179 (Skitarii Protectors in Maniple Explorator)
TR - 3x Henchmen Squad - 3x Plasmagun Acolytes - Razorback - Twin-linked Heavy Bolters - Psybolt Ammunition - Searchlight. 93 (Skitarii in Razorback with Enhanced Ammunition)

KPs 14
Vehicles 8
Infantry 33
Melta 9
TL Autocannons 6
Digi-weapons 7
Plasma 6
Multi-laser 4
Heavy Flamer 4
TL Heavy Bolter 1

Colours - rust red - grey and off white
Insignia - grey and off white skull cog symbol

I think Ven dreads fit the ad mech theme myself. I can see a tech priest elevated to Ven Dread status as he matures within the ranks.

- Now some think the Ven Dreads are too expensive but a GK with Psybolt, Fortitude and Aegis that is 3x as hard to pen and deadly accurate - one miss every four turns - is hard to pass up. I only worry about AP1 and if my opponent can get close enough to my Dreads to use melta I've done something wrong. I want to at least feel competitive.

- As you can see Coteaz will go with my plasma cannon servitors. Personally I prefer this squad over psykers and as I mentioned previously I don't think psyker acolytes fit an ad mech theme. In fact I have enough AT to use [lasma in two squads. My main anti-infantry is plasma, and flamers and my lone HB. But TL autocannons can sub in if needed.

- Four of my squads have monkeys as this is a shoot first list. I have no dedicated cc units. This is the list's Achilles heel. I'm not perfectly comfortable with that and when I do up in points I will rectify the situation but inserting DCA in there. At 1500 I'm less concerned. I can sacrifice a squad.

Unfortunately I'm not near finished painting and modeling these guys but ... meh ... better to test before finishing them off no?

I don't like your dreadnought choices, either take 2x TL Auto Cannons on heavy support dreads, or take an Assault Cannon and doomfist on venerable dreads, both with psybolts. The BS5 does not take very much advantage of twin-linked autocannons, and the ability to shrug off wounds means that you can be closer to the action, playing into the advantages of a BS5 psycannon and reinforced aegis.

[GodlessM]

bebe I like your list, but I would make the Ven Dreads normal Dreads to save points, plus I would get Plasma Guns on the Warriors riding with the Servitors, and I would make the small Plasma unit a small Melta unit (for suicide runs). With the points saved from downgrading the Dreads I'd buy a Vindicare.

[bebe]

Just curious if anyone has used a Ven Dread with TL Autocannons. They are almost cheesy. They rarely miss, are extremely difficult to pen at range and at least one runs up with the vehicles for the reinforced aegis. Nothing to scoff at Str8 Autocannons rerolling with BS5. They make them much more efficient. They also will rend an infantry squad when needed. I need ranged AT and the two coming up the flanks provide that in spades covering the table. Yep they are expensive. But one Ven Dread hits almost as much as two standard Dreads.

I would give plasmas to the warriors riding along with the servitors but I don't have the models done yet. I had the stormbolters. I will switch them over eventually. As for the small plasma unit ... it stays for now but I will consider the change after testing.I have plenty of melta at 1500 now. I need a few units that can put the hurt on elite infantry. I believe in redundancy. The Razor does have HB though so ...

Look at what the list brings. There are seven separate units that are capable of doing some AT (dreads, melta, jokaero). I have all the units capable of anti-infantry - eight - because of heavy flamers, plasma and stormbolters. Autocannons can also do some anti-infantry work.

I know the list is not perfect. That's why I'm testing it. But I think it will do okay once I adjust to it's nuances. We will see. I'll tell you on Monday what I found to work and what might need changing.

--

[GodlessM]

I've used Psyfle Ven Dreads and they are good but not a necessity unless you need a Heavy slot for something else.

[bebe]

Ven Psyfles have proved very valuable in my lists when used. That said I could drop one for another squad of
Inq - Rad, PW servo-skulls. 49
5x DCA, 2x Crusaders, Rhino. 145
That's my 195 points and the counter charging squad that I'm missing.
I lose 4 BS5 TL Str 8 shots though.

Not sure which is better.

[blackjack]

It's not that ven psyfilmen are not great it's that reg psyfilmen are much cheaper for the same punch. you can almost get 3 reg dreads for the price of 2 vens, thats 150% fire power and 50% more hulls which makes up for rerolls on pens and glances any day.

[GodlessM]

If you make the Dreads all normal Dreads you gain 180pts and thus are only short 15pts for that set-up without losing any shots.

[bebe]

In four rounds of shooting two Ven Dreads outshoot three regular dreads and are 3x as durable with reinforced aegis.

[Finn]

Regular Dreads have Reinforced Aegis as well, however... What if you ran 1 Venerable (you said you walk one up with your other stuff sometimes?) and 2 regulars, saving you 120 points to put elsewhere?

A regular dread will hit with 3.556 (32/9) shots per turn.
A venerable dread will hit with 3.889 (140/36) shots per turn. I don't think it's worth the points for just that, and as you said if your Psyfledreads are getting penetrated then something is wrong (which is my concern about my list in the other thread).