Blasphemy

[Nuada]

I just wondered if anyone has ever tried warmaster without the command phase?
.......Instead each unit can move once.



It crossed my mind today that infantry move 20cm, the same WHFB infantry of 8 inch. So if you deployed 60cm (24 inch) apart it's roughly be the same. Cavalry work out slightly slower

Unsure what you'd do with characters. Maybe they'd have to be attached to a unit. Some spells would need to change. Maybe no pre-measuring.

Okay it's a mad idea, and would be a totally different game. Just wondered if anyone has tried it, and made it work.

[Tupinamba]

I don´t play warmaster, but thought about it a lot and consider it to be a great game, probably better than whfb. The command system is what makes it different and more interesting! Why take that out?

[Spectrar Ghost]

Agreed.

The thing that makes Warmaster unique and interesting is the command based system. The fallibility of what today is called C3 is well documented in real life and history. The ability to have contingincy plans for when your units don't do what they want is a large part of what makes a good WM player.

Gamewise, the ability to take multiple moves is extremely important; if you couldn't no one would ever get into charge range if they could avoid it, since they would be charged in the opponent's next turn.

I reccomend playing a few games of WM; you'll be hooked quickly, but also see why the Command system is the foundation of the rules that holds the rest of the game up and makes it what it is.

[Nuada]

The command system is what makes it different and more interesting! Why take that out?

Based on a game we had a week ago. We ran an objective based game, the winner was the side that controlled the town. My opponent attempted to move his units towards the objective, but failed every command roll. I won by him not being able to roll below 8 on 2d6

Just one of those games, which is annoying because no matter how good his ideas or generalship is he can't even get into combat. I know games are decided by random dice rolls, but warmaster also has dice rolls for combat and spells. I was trying to lessen the die rolls involved.

It got me thinking about suggesting to him that our next game we play without characters, but each unit moves once. Not sure if the game would work? possibly not, was just throwing the idea out there.

It's radical, and would obviously include lots of extra work (for example.. some spells are linked to command checks, etc)

[Nuada]

Agreed.

The thing that makes Warmaster unique and interesting is the command based system. The fallibility of what today is called C3 is well documented in real life and history. The ability to have contingincy plans for when your units don't do what they want is a large part of what makes a good WM player.

Gamewise, the ability to take multiple moves is extremely important; if you couldn't no one would ever get into charge range if they could avoid it, since they would be charged in the opponent's next turn.

I recommend playing a few games of WM; you'll be hooked quickly, but also see why the Command system is the foundation of the rules that holds the rest of the game up and makes it what it is.

Yeah i've played warmaster before.

Don't get me wrong, i love warmaster.
Blood Bowl and Warmaster are the best games GW have written by miles. No contest.
But we have introduced warhammer ancients rules as house rules (eg. support bonus is added before casualties are inflicted, max of 2 combat rnds, push back in combat is reduced by no. of units involved)



We were considering adding a few of our own as well.
One of which is....."units more the 40cm away from the enemy get +1 to command checks"
This is the equivalent to marching in WHFB, the unit is far away from the enemy so can put their swords in sheaths, shields on their back and move more effectively.



Regarding your comment on multiple moves.....
If you think about it infantry move 20cm in warmaster, this is the same as warhammer infantry 8". All i have to do is decrease the amount opponents deploy from each other (60cm instead of 80cm... 60cm = 24")
..... my idea was to use a similar game mechanic to 7th edition WHFB. No pre-measuring. Yes i think you'll get into charge range, cavalry still charge more.

[Tupinamba]

Yea, I can understand the frustration of a game destroyed by too much bad luck on one side. Particularly having the movement part of a game partly decided by randomness seems odd in a first moment (I know, as I reacted the same way when I read the rules), as it can take out control over the tactically most import parts of the game.

However, having reserves, other commanders and backup plans should mitigate it and the command system makes warmaster feel much more like an ancient/medieval/fantasy battle than the godlike control we have in a game like whfb.

Maybe it can be a little too much randomness and harsh on a player, but it seems to me that you just had one of those games in which one side was too unlucky. It happens in almost any system sometimes. I´d say, just try it again.

Other than that, nothing against adapting a system to one´s need. Maybe the +1 for command in analogy to marching is enough to prevent the excessive situations you described, while at the same time keeping the interesting command mechanic of warmaster.

Cheers

[Easy E]

War is hell. It happens.

Especially when your general is trying to shout about a half mile to be heard while a bunch of guys bang their swords against their shields.

[Amnar]

But we have introduced warhammer ancients rules as house rules (eg. support bonus is added before casualties are inflicted, max of 2 combat rnds, push back in combat is reduced by no. of units involved)

Isn't that last item already in the rules?

[Nuada]

Especially when your general is trying to shout about a half mile to be heard while a bunch of guys bang their swords against their shields.

Yeah that's true the battlefield would be noisy. I have a few other theories for failed orders. I've always thought it best to imagine the battlefield from the view point of a warrior.
As players we get a birdseye view of the whole table. But for the warriors it's not like that; they can hear combats but not see them. Your imagination would run wild, you'd see movement in woods when there's actually nothing there.
That's how i believe a command check is failed. Not from your warriors all being partially deaf, but from your troops being paranoid.

Isn't that last item already in the rules?

do you mean "push back is reduced by number of units"?

I don't think it's in the fantasy version of warmaster, i got all 3 of those from WM ancients.

[Amnar]

I think it is reduced by units in fantasy, but it's hard to spot the rule. Can anyone confirm?

[Spectrar Ghost]

That's how we play it. I'd have to go looking for a reference, though.

[Vos]

The command system is integral to the feel of the game IMHO.
It can be very frustrating to have an entire brigade sit still for 4 consecutive turns, as recently happened to me though (costing em the game).

One house rule our group is considering is to say that units that are issued an order unsuccessfully can still half move (but not close to contact). That hero is still prevented from issuing any new orders that turn.

Vos