To Ostland!

[Saul Tarvitz]

Sorry, was that a bit too 'street' for you.

I think I've only ever completed one army, and that was Tau when they first launched. Only reason they got complete was for a campaign that penalised unpainted minis, so I painted 2k in a fortnight. Ice Blue armour with Blood Red detail panels, yuk! Combined with being 13 and only getting minis on special occasions I couldn't keep changing my mind as I do now.

[Astraeos]

Street talk, eh? I'm not used to communication being delivered in such a manner! I admit it's rare I complete units, let alone armies! One more reason to try and stick to the Empire for this year!

[Demoulius]

Jelly is just another way of saying jealous

I think its from trollface comics tbh....

[Astraeos]

Trollface comics?
Thanks for the explanation though!

[Astraeos]

Right, not a true model update but I got the new book today (and the new Griffon too) and 'remixed' my army list according to the new book. My old list with some magic item stand-ins (to replace missing items) came to 2230 points! I know I'm aiming for an eventual 3000 but I wanna stop off at 2000 first!

So with some changes I created this new 2000 points list-


Geirhardt von Krieger, General of the Empire- 172
Ogre Blade, Dawnstone, Full Plate Armour, Shield

Edmund Friedmann Battle Wizard Lord- 270
Lvl 4, Book of Ashur, Lore of Light

Hildegarde Engel, Warrior Priestess- 117
2 Warhammers, Armour of Silvered Steel, Ironcurse Icon

Klaus Eberhart, Captain of the Empire- 91
Full Plate Armour, Battle Standard

The Redshields, 35 Swordsmen- 305
Full Command, led by Geirhardt

Heinrich's Boozers, 15 Free Company Detachment- 90
The Town Drunks, 15 Free Company Detachment- 90

Ostland Fusiliers, 20 Handgunners - 180

Shadow Forest Trackers, 10 Huntsmen- 80

Proudblades, 20 Greatswords- 260
Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame, led by Hildegarde Engel

The Old Cavaliers, 5 Outriders- 105

Battle-cry, Great Cannon- 120

Exemplar, Helblaster Volley Gun- 120


Total- 2000

It's probably not that potent, but I do have most of the miniatures already!

EDIT- Looking at this, it's quite a shooting heavy list, especially as I had to drop the Halberdiers! Perhaps it'd be a better idea to create the 3000 points list and work towards that? Maybe I shouldn't bother with detachments for now and try to get in my Halberdiers?

[Scythe]

I haven't got the new book just yet, so I cannot comment too much about the army list, but the shooting element takes up quite some pts indeed. You could use a good finisher, like some knights of any sort (taking the place of your handgunners, for example).

That said, get painting / assembling!

[Astraeos]

I may have to start from scratch in designing the 2000 points list. Maybe units of 30 rather than 35?

I would Scythe, but it's quicker to get Necromunda and Malifaux out of the way first. You don't need so many models for those and everyone in my area tend to favour 3000 points games.

[Astraeos]

No pictures just yet but I wrote a 3000 point list that I'll make my target! I know it's a lot but as I said, people in my area prefer larger games. And I could probably break it down into smaller lists as needed.
So here we go, based somewhat on my pre-new book list and stuff I just fancy getting (Griffon, Demigryphs, Luminark, Witch Hunter)!


Amelia von Krieger, General of the Empire- 342
Lance, Armour of Meteoric Iron, Potion of Strength, riding an Imperial Griffon

Edmund Friedmann, Battle Wizard Lord- 270
Lvl 4, Book of Ashur, Lore of Light

Hildegarde Engel, Warrior Priestess- 117
2 Warhammers, Armour of Silvered Steel, Ironcurse Icon

Klaus Eberhart, Captain of the Empire- 93
Full Plate Armour, Shield, Battle Standard

Brandt, Battle Wizard- 125
Lvl 2, Dispel Scroll, Lore of Fire

Anselm Reinhardt, Witch Hunter- 55
Great Weapon

Leopold Kunze, Engineer- 65

The Redshields, 30 Swordsmen- 240
Full Command, led by Anselm Reinhardt

Heinrich's Boozers, 15 Free Company Detachment- 90
Ostland Fusiliers first unit, 10 Handgunners Detachment- 90

The Bull's Horns, 30 Halberdiers- 210
Full Command

The Town Drunks, 15 Free Company Detachment- 90
Ostland Fusiliers second unit, 10 Handgunners Detachment- 90

The Zweihanders, 20 Greatswords- 260
Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame, led by Hildegarde Engel

Opinicus Lancers, 6 Demigryph Knights- 378
Full Command

The Old Cavaliers, 5 Outriders- 125
Sharpshooter with Grenade Launching Blunderbuss

Battle-cry, Great Cannon- 120

Exemplar, Helblaster Volley Gun- 120

Lightbringer, Luminark of Hysh- 120

Total- 3000


Also, what do you all think of the unit and character's names?

[Demoulius]

Love the characterfull names Only gripe I have is that your units are tiny man! With your units numbering 30 at their biggest im afraid they wont survive combat for very long... Take in mind that other races have core troops that have S4 and 2 attacks base sometimes. Swordsmen and halberdiers have horrible saves and will die by the dozens! If you dont got numerical advantages then you basicly wont have anything as your troops wont outfight other armies troops...(some amazing/horrible dice throwing aside...)

The greatswords in particular suffer from the problem of hitting last. Their 4+ armour might seem nice until you notice that starting at S4 they start losing points of armour Id consider dropping the free company detachments and use the points to bulk up your other units abit more man. Free company are horrible flank chargers as well. They got more attacks then other state troopers but theyre not there to kill things. Theyre there to give you static combat res and break up your opponents flank so he isent steadfast anymore! I know you got the models but some units/tactics just wont work (damn you greatswords knights!!! Why do you refuse to be awesome! )

A tip that I got secondhand from local gamers might be helpfull to you. Ive never tried it myself (did see Fawful use it against me with his goblins though) but it might work for you. IF you have a unit of swordsmen or such deploy them 5 wide and as many ranks as you possibly can. Since your frontage is tiny you wont be getting that many attacks thrown at you whilst you will remain steadfast (tons of ranks). Swordsmen with their WS of 4 and parry save can also hold out alot longer then other state troopers who wouldnt get a save at all! While your enemy is stuck pestering your swordsmen you can go in for the kill with a flank charge or go after the rest of his army

Come to think about it, in that scenario a flank charge from demi-gryphs would be amazing! "Oh hi I see youve stuck a brick wall. Well heres another one coming!"

[Astraeos]

Thanks for the input. What size units are you thinking and are you talking about the Greatswords too? Should I just take the hand gunners as separate (or one big) units?

[Demoulius]

Well size depends on how you would use them... If you will be using hordes though id say 40 or even bigger.... I bring up hordes because in 3000 points theres alot of points that can be spend on blinged out elite troops!
If you plan to keep their frontage 5 wide though I guess their current sizes could work. The only I thing I would fear though is getting them actually in combat....

For example an opponent shows up with a horde (or just big unit in 7x4 for example, those are already very destructive to empire troops....) of 30-40 chaos warriors/orks/saurus warriors. What would you counter it with? The front ranks all got 2 attacks and S4(or better in some cases...) Most also hit your troops on avarage on 3's (4's if your lucky like for example the saurus are WS3 I believe....) and wound you on 3's(or better) I dont think theres units in here with enough numbers to take on such punishment for very long and survive for longer then a turn

With a horde at least you got the numbers and are dealing back some attacks to ensure that the turns after the first you wont be on the receiving end so much. And if you do lose badly your still in a horde formation so effectivly have the stubborn rule (or was that only if you had more ranks? I forget which one it was...) Last game I played I pushed my halberdier horde against a unit of about 25-30 black orks (not in horde formation mind) I had the beast signature spell off (+1 to toughness and strength) so was hitting at S5 and had T4. I ploughed through his men like none's bussiness and actually won the first round. In his following turn I got flank charged by night goblins but could still manage a draw! This was a single halberdier horde facing off against 2 units at the same time! After 3 turns in combat they had lost over half their numbers but were still going but did finaly break (because I couldnt get help them in time....) The unit of black orks was left at 5 models strong. The charging goblins obviously mostly intact...

Thats the only thing im missing tbh. Youve got lots of supporting characters in your list, a big monster in the form of your ridden Griffon and plenty of shooting. Id just take out the free company of the list and use the points to buff up your other units. Either the halberdiers or the swordsmen, depending on who you want to use as the anvil. Swordsmen hold out for longer (only just barely though) but halberdiers have a slightly bigger punch. Aside from that I would also try to beef your greatswords, who should also be horde size in my opinion. They would ideally bite into less elite troops and potentially breaking through their lines! I say less elite troops because to be honest, chaos warriors and the like scythe through them just as easily as they do through halberdiers. And halberdiers are half their cost

Infact, if I may be so bold why not try to make the halberdiers the swordsmen detachment? Make the swordsmen 40-50 strong (depending on point allowances) and make the halberdiers the detachment. I know you like your units and already got a command group but the detachment system is brilliant! Have the detachment sit 3 inch behind the horde (but in range of their bubble) and plow them right in with a countercharge! Your swordsmen take the brunt of the assault (and with a higher save and WS manage this more easily) you get combat res for the charge and flank and get full attacks whilst your opponents only gets 1 to the side (and no parries ) characters in the parent unit benefit both units (warrior priest's hatred and captains hold the line) only the parent needs to be within range of general and/or BSB to pass on that benefit as well

No single unit is going to win you any battles mate. Ive found that out (numerous times) the hard way Numbers for 40 or 50 are enough to let them stay around for a while. The supporting units should be at least number 20 or so numbers I feel so thats taken care off already. The greatswords should also number about 40 or so I feel. Its a big chunk of your army but trust me, they work wonders on the field With stubborn they can stay around in combat longer then you actually want to infact or have them dying to a man! Its characterfull but not always in our best interest

Having said all that im not sure if only removing the free company is enough... They would free up 180 points. Making the halberdiers a detachment would also free up points! Perhaps only removing 1 unit would be enough to buff the greatswords numbers. Since its your list I will let you make the hard decisions. Im just here to offer some advice

Ps.Or you could wait till ive tested the new detachment system out so I can tell you if its even worth it

[Astraeos]

That's a lot to think about dude. I did write a new list removing the Free Company and boosting both the Halberdiers and Swordsmen to 40 strong each. With the remaining 50 points I bought my Witch Hunter the Talisman of Preservation (I thought he was looking a bit bare) and my General a pistol.

I'm not sure how I'd del relying on a few large units rather the plenty of smaller ones. But I haven't played Warhammer in years (since Ravening Hordes) and am a very green juve when it comes to playing Empire. Now I'm wondering if the Empire is the army for me! Maybe I don't have the right mindset for it? Gah, Identity Crisis!

[Superdan21]

Love the names of your units dude, great theme :P I do agree with demolius on many of his points about size but its a touch call, you're pretty much forced to make the difficult choice between a theme or competition. personally i'd think about dropping the level 2 and taking a second WP so good for their points, this is just from my experience, lets just say the winds of magic never blow favourably for me :P

think its going to be about practice for the new stuff, see whats what, i mean looking at the book i don't know that i'd take the luminark unless i was against demons or UD armies as i think the hurricanum is much better, but who knows till i play. Still looking good i i think

[Astraeos]

Thanks Superdan21, but I'll stick with the lvl 2 as I have the model for him and only one warrior priest in my collection.
I chose the Luminark as I regularly see Hell Pit Abominations, Trolls and dual Hydra lists on the Warhammer battlefields at the gaming club. The lvl 2 Fire Wizard and Flaming banner were picked for the same reason (that and I like the lore of fire).

But should I drop the Witch Hunter and Engineer to try and fit in more Greatswords? Should my Handgunners just operate as separate (or one big) units?

[Demoulius]

Its defenitly a tough call to make... Specialy since we dont know how your group plays their infantry. Do you see many hordes strutting around? Just smaller units or even just units 5 wide? Im not a fan of tailoring lists per se but if it means that you can keep your list I would be all for it

Tbh having to choose between fluff and beeing competitive always strikes me as beeing a bit of a shame... The free company already free up enough points to increase your halberdiers to a decent horde status and youd have some leftover points to go to the greatsword unit. That in itself wouldnt be enough though and the engineer and/or witch hunter were the only odd balls (if you can forgive the term) that were in the list. Since you cant use the engineers reroll to influence a great cannon's bounce the hellblaster would be the only one benefiting from it to the fullest. The BS of 4 is also a nice addition but im not sure if that buff warrants the engineers addition.... Specialy not when you can add an entire 10 man rank to your greatswords for his and the witch hunters combined points! Likewise do people tend to throw lots of magic missles around? In our gaming club its generaly very rare and sadly also the reason why magic resistance is mostly wasted here....

The 6 inch buff bubble the hurricanum gives is better allround (as is his hurricane thingy if you ask me) but I see the reason why you took the Luminark. It makes sense when the decision was made with that in mind really

I also always have at least the flaming banner to take care of pesky regeneration units!

[Astraeos]

To be honest when I'm not playing at the club I tend to drift around and just take casual glances at stuff going on. I have noticed that the OnG player uses hordes often, actually come to think of it hordes are very popular and most people tend to utilise them.
Dropping the engineer is a pain, the model's already in the post! Gah! stupid new book needing my list to be re-written from scratch! So any unit and models I have being taken out!

[Scythe]

I feel your pain... the general points increases in the new book force some hard decisions about what to drop and what to keep in an army list. That said, don't be afraid to experiment! Engineers in combination with a hellblaster are still pretty viable I think (though pretty expensive).

[Astraeos]

It's so frustrating isn't it? Several times now I've been thinking "Is this the right army for me after all?" and "Maybe it was a sign that Vampire Counts were released first?" or "I'm sure I'll have more fun with WoC" and even "Perhaps I stopped working on my Skaven a little prematurely?" or "I always say I like Elves but I have little in the way of stuff to show for it!"

Conflicts and Crisis! But I should really keep on, I've spent too much money nd I have told myself that this year I'll have a painted army.

Also, I started my General on Griffon and after looking at the bits I have so far I can see a lot of work ahead for there!

[Golden Lion]

Dude, I know what you're saying and I recognize the lure that other armies can have, but I see too many army lists and too few painted Ostlanders!!

[Demoulius]

Engineer with hellblaster does sound nice But its rather expensive for what it does unfortunatly...

Dont fret to much Astra. Dont be afraid to experiment