Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

[Voss]

Isn't the eldritch lance a lance weapon ? That's the how it killed the av14 bastion in white dwarf.

Nope. Check the scenario setup- they decided the bastions on that backwater world were only AV12.

[Chaos Undecided]

Like I said wasnt sure if the scarabs would work or not but seems unusual if they only apply to the one unit type especially if its an ability unique to the StormLord

[Theocracity]

The Wraith (+the thing that lowers init of enemy unit to 1) is your friend if you want to go CC. In the movement phase bring your Wraith in base contact of the unit you want to assault. Then assault with Necron unit of your choice. Resolve CC. Too bad we don’t have assault vehicles…

You can't move into BtB contact with an enemy unit during the movement phase. You have to stay 1" away unless you're assaulting.

If you mean it's good to multi-assault with Wraiths leading the way... then yes, that strategy makes sense.

[madival]

Also open top vehicles let you assault.

[Transgressor]

Also open top vehicles let you assault.

Too bad the ghost ark can only carry warriors and attached ICs/Royal court.
And isn't fast.
And can't tank shock.
And can only regen basic warriors.

Not entirely sure if it'd work yet but from the battle report it seems bloodswarm nanoscarabs allow the necron player to use an enemy character as a beacon for deepstriking dropping a unit of deathmarks in rapid fire range of a solo character like Mephiston might get the job done with them able to wound him on 2+. Not sure if the Stormlords the only guy with these nanoscarabs though.

It's just for flayed ones. Worse than that, the bloodswarms are allocated at random and your opponent will know which one it is so he can plan for it. Also, unless they make it so you can assault after deepstriking in 6th, you have the Lictor issue of showing up where you want only to be shot to bits.

[DJ3]

Also, has anyone considered the trolliest counter-assault unit possible?

Basic Lords with Mindshackle Scarabs are 50 points. You could get five of them for nearly the same cost as 5 Shield Lychguard.

Would absolutely work wonders against any elite CC opponents, say TH/SS or Thunderwolves or similar. Odds of failing Ld9 on 3d6 is ~62%. Thunderwolves are actually only Ld8, which makes it more like 75%.

And then you have to consider what happens when multiple Mindshackles get into base contact with the same model. Unless the rules explain it very well, it's probably going to have to wait for an FAQ. But in general, would you get five attempts at Mindshackle on Mephiston? A failure doesn't actually use the model's attacks, just D3 attacks. So what if he fails more than once? etc etc.

Maybe the rule is worded better than I'm expecting and all this is clear in the book.

What was the range on these lances? We should get the weapons table in the post as well. Though I guess it won't matter come saturday.

Is there a range advantage?

Do we have a confirmed cost on chrono character?

Cheers for the math, I might be able to take a unit of scarabs after all. What are the saves on these guys?

Eldritch Lances are 36", so the only potential range difference is that Destroyers can move 12" and Crypteks can't.

Crypteks are T4 3+, so a little squisher than Destroyers.

The N&R thread just reported that a Chronometron Cryptek is "slightly more than a Rhino," so I'm hoping for 40. That actually makes all my math on the prior page perfect, because then 4 Eldritch + Chrono is identical in cost to 3 HDestroyers.

[Vsurma]

Ok I am liking that unit, now the next task is to figure out the optimum layout for the unit.

How many lances? are there any other items that one might consider throwin the unit?

[Malorian]

Do people actually think this new book will be able to compete with the IG, BA, and GK lists we see today?

Seems to me we just have more guys for them to kill in combat, and more ultra expensive combat units for them to shoot, and all the while all we can do it glance their tanks until they get close, and then it's too late.


At first I was thinking positively about scarab swarms, overlord swiping attacks, and out finacy new gun tank, but then I started thinking about what the opponent was going to do to deal with it and... well I got sad.

The overlord and the gun tank will be shot down and a unit will pop out to deal with the swarm. Once that happens it's a simple matter of launghing at units that can't deal with tanks, and daring them to come closer.


Please tell me I'm wrong...

[DJ3]

Ok I am liking that unit, now the next task is to figure out the optimum layout for the unit.

How many lances? are there any other items that one might consider throwin the unit?

I'm running 4+Chrono because I don't think I'll need any Crypteks as squad leaders.

Technically, with the C'tan Terrain Power, it wouldn't be awful to spend points on a Cryptek of Transmogrification to get the 24" Difficult Terrain Blast to help you against horde armies and/or slow down oncoming assault units. Transmog can also purchase the Harp of Dissonance for infinite-range Entropic, which would combo well with the Eldritches because you could spend Turn 1-2 bringing AV14 down to AV13 from across the board. That Cryptek would be best served hanging out with a unit of Warriors in my opinion, if you chose to include him, but for now I think I'm sticking with the 4 Lances. If you had two Courts, this would obviously not be an issue.

You can add Lords to the unit. A Res Orb would give them survivability that most likely exceeds the Destroyers in most cases (and remember, this unit will likely be inside a Ghost Ark rather than floating around on foot). I'm only considering the Res Orb if the wording somehow prevents me from putting them in a Ghost Ark.

And really, they likely outpace the Destroyers on survivability anyhow--I forgot to take into account that they can use the Chrono to re-roll a failed save.

[madival]

If white dwarfs numbers are correct, you could field 7 quantum shielded vehicles and it only comes to 1250 with troops in 4 of them . I think even ig will suffer. S7 just doesn't cut it vs 13

[Malorian]

If white dwarfs numbers are correct, you could field 7 quantum shielded vehicles and it only comes to 1250 with troops in 4 of them . I think even ig will suffer. S7 just doesn't cut it vs 13

Until the first glancing hit. Then it's toast!

And really what are we doing back to take out those tanks? Is our lord rushing forward towards the melta guns? Scarab swarms hoping to do something before they are touble toughnessed to death?

Just seems to come back to the fact that we can't keep up in an all tank meta. Sure we have tricks now but against wise opponents they really won't amount to much.

[DJ3]

I'm trying to decide whether or not Scarabs will mesh with the army I want to play. And working out if there are any good situations to DS a Monolith, currently leaning toward "yes" but very situational.

I'm thinking maybe a smaller unit of Scarabs, played defensively. They can still hang out in terrain for 3+ cover, or 2+ if they want to GTG and wait.

If white dwarfs numbers are correct, you could field 7 quantum shielded vehicles and it only comes to 1250 with troops in 4 of them . I think even ig will suffer. S7 just doesn't cut it vs 13

The option is definitely there to build an AV13 wall, I just think those armies will suffer from lack of long-range anti-AV13/14.

Until the first glancing hit. Then it's toast!

Quantum Shielding only falls on a Penetrating hit.

Edit: Also, I just realized Anrakyr on Barge can actually kill four vehicles in a turn, not three. One from Sweep, one from hacking a vehicle to kill a second, one from the Tachyon Arrow, and one from the Gauss/Tesla Cannon mounted on the Barge.

Obviously that's never going to happen. But it could!

[Aluinn]

Eldritch Lances are 36", so the only potential range difference is that Destroyers can move 12" and Crypteks can't.

Crypteks are T4 3+, so a little squisher than Destroyers.

The N&R thread just reported that a Chronometron Cryptek is "slightly more than a Rhino," so I'm hoping for 40. That actually makes all my math on the prior page perfect, because then 4 Eldritch + Chrono is identical in cost to 3 HDestroyers.

I don't disagree that this unit will probably be quite good for its points, but I thought I should point out that, according to GW, Crypteks have the exact same statline as Warriors, i.e. they only have a 4+ save.

Still, if you were worried about them getting shot, you could add Lords for ablative wounds/Res Orb, and even give one of them a 3++, but then it starts getting rather expensive and those models don't contribute to the anti-tank shooting, so I'm not sure if it's a good idea.

I will have to think long and hard about the composition of this unit. It also might be better all-in-all to get another Eldritch Lance rather than bothering with the Chronometron, though the Chronometron is very good.

[Voss]

Do people actually think this new book will be able to compete with the IG, BA, and GK lists we see today?

Seems to me we just have more guys for them to kill in combat, and more ultra expensive combat units for them to shoot, and all the while all we can do it glance their tanks until they get close, and then it's too late.


At first I was thinking positively about scarab swarms, overlord swiping attacks, and out finacy new gun tank, but then I started thinking about what the opponent was going to do to deal with it and... well I got sad.

The overlord and the gun tank will be shot down and a unit will pop out to deal with the swarm. Once that happens it's a simple matter of launghing at units that can't deal with tanks, and daring them to come closer.


Please tell me I'm wrong...

Not sure, to be honest. I think its going to require taking things I don't really want to take, which for me takes some of the fun out of it. The doomsday ark (I'm assuming thats the fancy new gun tank you refer to) seems impractical (slot, cost and stationary), and scarabs are a maybe, and have hellishly hard counters, particularly in those armies; S6 template weapons = gone.

Wraiths definitely seem good (cheaper, multiple wounds and 'lash whip' upgrade. No rez protocols, but the 3++ is probably more important on such a small unit anyway). Lots of good strength attacks with rending makes for decent anti-vehicle, and good speed.

But DJ3's crypteks, heavy destroyers and the Triarch stalker seem to be important for the reliable AT (if you feel gauss isn't enough, and it may well not be).

Troops, at least, are cheap enough that they're not taking too much away from the list, and immortals can definitely contribute.

My worry isn't actually that a necron army won't be able to deal with vehicles... I think it can if you build it that way. The problem I'm worried about is building a viable all comers list. I can see an AT list (now whether it can deal with the passengers after it pops the tanks...). I can definitely see anti-horde lists. And by default, a necron list should be viable (viable, not necessarily dominate, which is only proper) against mid-armour elite armies with small to medium model counts (eldar, tau and dark eldar, essentially) just due to the amount of shooting available in the range of S5-7.

What I can't see, however, is being able to put together an army that can deal with the mid-range armies, vehicle (of the not open-topped and AV10 variety) heavy armies and horde armies. Everything seems either mediocre (warriors & flayed ones) or a really expensive specialist. There are a couple exceptions (scarabs and wraiths, though the latter are somewhat expensive).

I think thats the difference between this book and the books you mention, even if the players are not playing in the deep end of the competitive pool. With those books, you can put together an interesting list (or a list you find interesting), have a fun game and do well. At least for me, I'm not sure I can do that with the necron book, particularly at my preferred points level (1500). Too many things seem required to deal with this or that, while the things I like sit off to the side because they don't fit into the list.

[madival]

I'm trying to decide whether or not Scarabs will mesh with the army I want to play. And working out if there are any good situations to DS a Monolith, currently leaning toward "yes" but very situational.

I'm thinking maybe a smaller unit of Scarabs, played defensively. They can still hang out in terrain for 3+ cover, or 2+ if they want to GTG and wait.



The option is definitely there to build an AV13 wall, I just think those armies will suffer from lack of long-range anti-AV13/14.



Quantum Shielding only falls on a Penetrating hit.

Edit: Also, I just realized Anrakyr on Barge can actually kill four vehicles in a turn, not three. One from Sweep, one from hacking a vehicle to kill a second, one from the Tachyon Arrow, and one from the Gauss/Tesla Cannon mounted on the Barge.

Obviously that's never going to happen. But it could!

1500 pts and you got the storm lord with that. Really screw the long range AT

[DJ3]

I don't disagree that this unit will probably be quite good for its points, but I thought I should point out that, according to GW, Crypteks have the exact same statline as Warriors, i.e. they only have a 4+ save.

Still, if you were worried about them getting shot, you could add Lords for ablative wounds/Res Orb, and even give one of them a 3++, but then it starts getting rather expensive and those models don't contribute to the anti-tank shooting, so I'm not sure if it's a good idea.

I will have to think long and hard about the composition of this unit. It also might be better all-in-all to get another Eldritch Lance rather than bothering with the Chronometron, though the Chronometron is very good.

The one thing I can say with certainty (assuming a 40-point pricetag) is that another Eldritch Lance will never be a better choice than the Chronometron. The only conceivable situation that another Eldritch Lance is better is if you hit and wound (or hit and penetrate and destroy) with every single shot.

It's really that simple. If you miss even one of your Eldritch Lances, you can burn the re-roll right then, and it's effectively like you had five Eldritch Lances.

If you use it to re-roll an Armor Penetration die, it's like having an Eldritch Lance that automatically hits--i.e., you get another chance at rolling a penetrate, without the need to roll to hit.

It only costs 5 more points from what we know. And adds so much more than "just another Eldritch Lance."

But DJ3's crypteks©, heavy destroyers and the Triarch stalker seem to be important for the reliable AT (if you feel gauss isn't enough, and it may well not be).

All rights reserved.

[Transgressor]

Do people actually think this new book will be able to compete with the IG, BA, and GK lists we see today?

Seems to me we just have more guys for them to kill in combat, and more ultra expensive combat units for them to shoot, and all the while all we can do it glance their tanks until they get close, and then it's too late.


At first I was thinking positively about scarab swarms, overlord swiping attacks, and out finacy new gun tank, but then I started thinking about what the opponent was going to do to deal with it and... well I got sad.

The overlord and the gun tank will be shot down and a unit will pop out to deal with the swarm. Once that happens it's a simple matter of launghing at units that can't deal with tanks, and daring them to come closer.


Please tell me I'm wrong...

I wish you were.

It seems that most of the army is packing mid range firepower but really doesn't want to be that close because they're still going to get smashed in CC bad. LD 10 won't matter when you lose combat by 5 and get run down before you can use RP.

I think there are some... interesting builds that could have some success, they're just not what we're used to seeing from necrons.

I think running an all flyer list, massed Doom / Night Scyths could be good, give the DE a run for thier money on speed.

Or a list focusing on scarabs with maxed out Spiders building up a unit of scarabs from 10 to 37 by turn 3 could be scary as hell. Backed up by wraiths for counter assaults.

I really wish the Triarch Stalkers were better, love the look of them, but you get an open topped walker with 1 gun? Even with quantum shielding that seems a bit weak for the points. And no DCCW so it might be hard as hell to kill in combat but it won't be doing a whole lot.

[Brockafally]

I am worried at just how effective warriors are going to be. Great for sticking in vehicles, but with the amount of grey knight players I come up against (autocannon, Psycannon) and blood angel players (assault cannons, heavy flamers) it just seems that once the vehicle gets popped and that will happen, they are going to get smashed as soon as possible. RP only helps so much. Maybe going with more immortals for the front liners with a unit of two of warriors for back-mid field as a reserve might be the way to go.

[Azulthar]

Deathmarks people, Deathmarks!

I'm starting to see a bit more potential with the list. My expectations were just off (thanks to the Grey Knights).

[madival]

I'm trying to decide whether or not Scarabs will mesh with the army I want to play. And working out if there are any good situations to DS a Monolith, currently leaning toward "yes" but very situational.

I'm thinking maybe a smaller unit of Scarabs, played defensively. They can still hang out in terrain for 3+ cover, or 2+ if they want to GTG and wait.



The option is definitely there to build an AV13 wall, I just think those armies will suffer from lack of long-range anti-AV13/14.
P


Quantum Shielding only falls on a Penetrating hit.

Edit: Also, I just realized Anrakyr on Barge can actually kill four vehicles in a turn, not three. One from Sweep, one from hacking a vehicle to kill a second, one from the Tachyon Arrow, and one from the Gauss/Tesla Cannon mounted on the Barge.

Obviously that's never going to happen. But it could!

1500 pts and you got the storm lord with that. Really screw the long range AT . Also glancing on a 6 has never been legit for me.