Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

[CKO]

You also have to take into consideration that the poll was taken by non-necron players, who only have the numbers to go by and not any actual game play experience.

[Aschen]

gah. Poll Poll Poll. I am curious. How does a squad of TH/SS termies fare against (as close to) equal points in Flayed ones?

[Ba'al Starslayer]

20 Flayed Ones are 20pt more than 6 TH/SS Terminators (but for number's sake...)
Flayed Ones (Charging): 80A, 40H, 20W, 3.3333 Dead (assume 3)
Terminators: 6A, 3H, 3W, 3 Dead. Drawn Combat, 1 Flayed One gets up.
From there the Flayed Ones generally go on to win...

[naloth]

gah. Poll Poll Poll. I am curious. How does a squad of TH/SS termies fare against (as close to) equal points in Flayed ones?

200 points 5 SS/TH vs 195 points 15 Flayed Ones

SS/TH assault:
Round 1:
15 Flayed 1/2 hit, 1/2 wound, 1/6 fail save = 1 wound per 24 attacks. 45 attacks/24 = ~2 Termies Dead. 3 Termies 1/2 hit, 5/6 wound, no save = 5 wound per 12 attack. 9 attacks = 4ish Flayed down, 1 self repair made. Flayed Ones need to make a break check, but having done 80 damage with 39 points lost they've clearly done better in round one.

Round 2:
12 Flayers = 36/24 wounds. Another terminator. 2 Terminators = 20/6, 3 flayed down, 1 RPP. Flayed are still way ahead on points but need another morale -1 to stick.

Round 3:
Another dead termie. Another dead flayer.

Round 4:
No termies left.

Flayed assault:
15 Flayed get 60/24 wounds. ~3 dead Terminators. Progression as like above for remaining rounds.

Note: Don't try Flayed against BA Termies that have FnP, mixed Lightning Claws, and FC.

[Aschen]

So all in all, FLayed ones are a good thing to throw at termies?

[Vsurma]

You also have to take into consideration that the poll was taken by non-necron players, who only have the numbers to go by and not any actual game play experience.

A lot of necron players won't have experience either, there is a good chance a new poll 3 months down will have a different result. It is still informative though.

[Bonzai]

Had my first game with the new codex on Saturday against my Brother's Black Legion. I threw something together to take advantage of of models I had, and to keep proxys to a minimum. It was a 2k list.

HQ
Orikan

Elite
C'tan w/ WW, Dust

Troops
10 Warriors
10 Warriors
10 Warriors

Fast Attack
7 Scarabs
5 Hvy Destroyers
5 Hvy Destroyers

Heavy
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark
3 Tomb Spyders

*We realized that I had misread the destroyer entry, and could only have 3 hvy destroyers per unit. So we subbed the extras for normal Destroyers on Turn 2. Turns out it made no difference

The plan was to use Orikan and the C'tan to buy my Doomsday arks an extra turn at being stationary. Pop stuff with the hvy destroyers, and then drop the doomsday template on the stuff inside. Had Orikan join the squad of tomb spyders. It was spear head/Kill Points. I ended up winning by 1.

The scarabs got a first turn charge against my Brother's land raider due to tomb spyder shennanigans and wrecked it. He wasn't too happy about that, lol. They got killed right away after that as Abaddon, his terminators, and some shooting made them a priority to get rid of. These things are beasts... figuratively, and litteraly.

I liked that I can now hide Hvy destroyers in cover now without taking dangerous terrain tests every turn. This jumps up their survivability a lot. With the C'tan hijinks, multiple story terrain becomes fun. A unit has to fight dangerous terrain rolls to try and get up to them to assault, and they can simply jump 12 inches down to the bottom floor, and force them to do it all over again. Mixing regular destroyers into the mix isn't really worth it. The shorter range is a limitation, and I am not sure that it's worth spending 40 points just for ablative wounds. I am thinking about how useful a deepstriking squad of regular destroyers would be though...

The Doomsday Arks were underwhelming, but a lot of that was solely due to me rolling like complete crap with them. I did nearly take out a full squad of plague marines with one shot though, so it wasn't a complete waste. They are survivable, and thanks to the deployment, I was able to keep them stationary the entire game.

Tomb Spyders are still mediocre in combat, but more than worth it for 1st turn assaults with the scarabs alone.

The C'tan I hid most of the game, but towardsbailed out the end he bailed out two warrior squads that got charged. One by normal chaos marines, and the other by 1k sons. I think Dust is a give me option for these guys. Grenades and stealth are really, really nice.

Orikan didn't amount to much, and I will probably not take him in the future.

Warriors? Pretty much the same. 4+ save hurts, but is survivable. RP actually makes them a little stronger in assault, as you get your model count back up for the next assault regardless. I learned to get the most of them in the last dex, and not much has really changed. I like them better than the immortals, point for point.

I had some terrible armor penatration rolls this game, but still managed to win 6 kp to 5. After having more time with the codex, this will probably be the revised list.

HQ
Overlord w/ Warscythe, Mindshackle scarabs, Phase shifter, Command Barge
3x Crypteks w/ Harbinger of Transmogrification, tremorstaves

Elite
C'tan w/ Spirit Dust, writhing worldscape
Triarch Stalker

Troops
10 Warriors
10 Warriors
10 Warriors

Fast Attack
3 Hvy Destroyers
3 Hvy Destroyers
3 Hvy Destroyers

Heavy
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark

Total: 2,000

Replaced Orikan for a lord in a command barge. Did this for Crypteks, but he also makes for a nice counter assault-harrasser unit. The Harbingers lob their tremor staves, slow units down, and buy time for the anti-tank to do it's job. I am considering taking out the phase shifter for a Harp of dissonence on a cryptek, but I'll have to see if I really need it. Or I could take out thr tiarch stalker and the phase shifter, and get a 3rd Doomsday ark.

It will be an interesting list to try out.

I am also seriously considering running a Neo-wraithwing list. Storm Lord, cryptek with solar pulse for night fighting, destroyer lord with wraiths, maybe some scarabs, C'tan, monoliths, and since we are now allowing Forge World in our shop, maybe some tomb stalkers.

[itcamefromthedeep]

I suggest you proxy this army and just try facing it.

So, I proxied the list and tried facing it. 50 Immortals, 8 lance Crypteks, 2 Overlords and 5 Tomb Blades. 20 Immortals with gauss, the rest got tesla and the Crypteks scattered throughout.

An acquaintance at the store today cheerfully volunteered to take the helm of the Necrons. He played Necrons years ago, and we were both curious to see how this foot list would fare.

It fared badly. Annihilation, Dawn of War. He took 2 Kill Points before being tabled on turn 5. Early fire went into Gaunts, but cover and going to ground with one brood at an opportune moment meant that both broods survived the phase. He totally messed up the Genestealers, but not before losing a squad of Immortals and an Overlord to them and the remains of the second Gaunt brood. Those Gaunts died to concentrated firepower the turn after, accounting for his second and final Kill Point. The lack of mobility in the army crippled his power density. He spread his units out to mitigate the large number of blasts I was sending downfield at him with Biovores, Zoanthropes, Warriors and the Tyrant. Even so the Tyranid shooting took out half a dozen or more each shooting phase after Reanimation. Since his early shooting went to the Gaunts (the ones in range at the time), he failed to stop my firepower before his Immortals started losing their punch due to casualties. Once he was down to 30 or so he just couldn't put enough firepower into the Tyrant and Guard to stop them. Paroxysm meant that the second Overlord's squad was throwing little more than harsh language by the time they were in rapid fire range, and taking a set of the Tyrant's devourers to the face to add insult to injury.

That Necron list has no templates itself, making it fun and easy for the Tyranids to cluster up as tight as they liked without consequence, and that makes a big difference with regard to cover and ranges.

Tomb Blades took it to the face from Hive Guard, but bad rolls on my part and good Reanimation rolls on his meant that they stuck around until the late game. Without that 3+ save they are in a world of trouble. After seeing them on the table I'd strongly recommend the twin Gauss Blasters over the twin Tesla Carbines.

I may try the list again, this time with some Veils of Darkness for mobility and a more cagy player on the other side. Some more fire discipline and better estimation of ranges would have really helped him (absolutely critical factors to that list). I really don't know how best to add templates to that list though. It may just be down to Particle weapons on the Tomb Blades, but they'll want that 3+ next time to avoid taking impaler cannons, autocannons and the like to the face. Oh *boy* would naked Tomb Blades ever take autocannons to the face. Those models are just too fragile to really push the table. They're vulnerable to both assault and firepower, without the extraordinary punch of something like a Space Marine bike squad with plasma and a multimelta Attack Bike.

Oh, and the Necron player I played against before, the one who's list you criticized, asked me to convey his extraordinarily low estimation of your judgement in army list assessment (in less polite terms).

[barontuman]

All this talk of Gauss vs Tesla, here's my thoughts. I take both. I like the maneuverability of Tesla, and I like the damage potential of Gauss.

Therefore I take both. One gets a fighty Phaeron lord for relentless AP4 Gauss goodness, and the Tesla runs around shooting stuff. Has worked quite well so far.

Strangely enough, I'm working toward a very balanced army. Good anti-tank HQ's and Hvy Destroyers, lots of anti-infantry (plenty of Immortals and Warriors), and reasonable HtH capability from the HQ's.

So, give it a rest as to the arguments about Gauss vs Tesla Immortals already. They are both decent and have good aspects.

[Sekhmet]

So, give it a rest as to the arguments about Gauss vs Tesla Immortals already. They are both decent and have good aspects.

This is a tactics thread... are you saying we shouldn't discuss the differences between gauss and tesla in a tactics thread?

[Wyked]

A lot of necron players won't have experience either, there is a good chance a new poll 3 months down will have a different result. It is still informative though.

Wait a damn second. You admit that the majority of people don't have experience. And yet you claim it's still informative? That's sounding more like the epitome of idiocy.

Let's put up a poll for how far the Earth is from the Sun. Whatever the majority vote is true then, right? Because giving a poll to uninformed people is still informative.

~dy

[Starwolf]

This is a tactics thread... are you saying we shouldn't discuss the differences between gauss and tesla in a tactics thread?

This is the correct place to discuss it, I agree, but I think he, like many of us, are a bit tired of the confrontational edge these posts have taken on. Just keep it civil folks. Come 6th edition we'll all be taking gauss anyways...
I mean, if rapid fire becomes 1-shot on the move at 24, then gauss is probably will be the all-around answer. But if we can move and shoot, then why not just take warriors instead? They're cheaper and gauss is gauss (against vehicles) whether Strengh 5 or 4... But I think I'm getting 6-12 months ahead of myself. I'm a slow hobbyist though, which is why I'm thinking ahead, so I'd hate to put in the time for tessla guns and then want to switch it out later.

[Sekhmet]

This is the correct place to discuss it, I agree, but I think he, like many of us, are a bit tired of the confrontational edge these posts have taken on. Just keep it civil folks. Come 6th edition we'll all be taking gauss anyways...
I mean, if rapid fire becomes 1-shot on the move at 24, then gauss is probably will be the all-around answer. But if we can move and shoot, then why not just take warriors instead? They're cheaper and gauss is gauss (against vehicles) whether Strengh 5 or 4... But I think I'm getting 6-12 months ahead of myself. I'm a slow hobbyist though, which is why I'm thinking ahead, so I'd hate to put in the time for tessla guns and then want to switch it out later.

S5 is far better than s4 against raiders, venoms, trukks, chimera side armor, etc. And imagine with tank hunters from nemesor... Pen rhinos all day.

[Aschen]

So What are wraiths good for? I heard a thing that they werent ideal for anti-terminator warfare...but with their 3++, I'd assume they would want to go after a unit with all power weapons..

[zendral]

So What are wraiths good for? I heard a thing that they werent ideal for anti-terminator warfare...but with their 3++, I'd assume they would want to go after a unit with all power weapons..

Tying up units in the back like long fangs or broadsides via deepstrike. Or a counter assault unit.

[Stonerhino]

Oh, and the Necron player I played against before, the one who's list you criticized, asked me to convey his extraordinarily low estimation of your judgement in army list assessment (in less polite terms).

Let your friend know that when he can consistantly win with that list he will be my hero.

I did raise an eyebrow until I saw:

And a more cagy player on the other side. Some more fire discipline and better estimation of ranges would have really helped him (absolutely critical factors to that list).

Target priority and thinking a few turns ahead are really critical factors. That can lose you many games until you get the hang of it. The fact that you pointed it out, explains a lot.

[lethlis]

This is a tactics thread... are you saying we shouldn't discuss the differences between gauss and tesla in a tactics thread?

Out of all the pages dedicated to this one topic, how much of it has been tactics and uses vrs which one is better and you are an idiot for using the other? I think his point is that it has been done for long enough, it will most likely get revived every few weeks because someone wants to argue about it and so lets focus on the other things in the book and come up with new ideas instead of arguing about something that is very list and opinion based.

So i tried my obyron teleporting shenanigans with deathmarks and it went okay, however I am still having trouble selecting a unit to do it with I was thinking heavy destroyers to get those side shots but am open to suggestions

[Vsurma]

Out of all the pages dedicated to this one topic, how much of it has been tactics and uses vrs which one is better and you are an idiot for using the other? I think his point is that it has been done for long enough, it will most likely get revived every few weeks because someone wants to argue about it and so lets focus on the other things in the book and come up with new ideas instead of arguing about something that is very list and opinion based.

So i tried my obyron teleporting shenanigans with deathmarks and it went okay, however I am still having trouble selecting a unit to do it with I was thinking heavy destroyers to get those side shots but am open to suggestions

It sounds cool, possibly even effective as the lord can tank some hits but it does make a 300pts unit that fires 3 shots a turn on side armour, less once you take some hits.

[Sekhmet]

So What are wraiths good for? I heard a thing that they werent ideal for anti-terminator warfare...but with their 3++, I'd assume they would want to go after a unit with all power weapons..

Where did you hear that? Wraiths destroy terminators. A squad of 6 wraiths will beat two squads of 5 th/ss terminators, one after the other. They can't take 10 terminators at once... But then again, nothing in the game can take 10 th/ss terminators at the same time. Well, maybe a lord court death star, but that's super expensive and specialized.

[bebe]

I think destroyers on the whole could use some discussion. I have had conversations with a few people who felt that the fast slots were too full of good choices for destroyers to be seen much. But HDestroyers are one of our best options for heavy weapons and can be hidden amongst regular destroyers which as a group can even assault and win combats with prefered enemy. They are also jump infantry now which could be a small advantage as well. A squad of three Destroyers and two heavy destroyers clocks in at a hefty 240 points though. Accompanied by a D Lord it iscertainly a tough nut though.