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Thread: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

  1. #3381

    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    I'm not sure if making a doomsday ark a barrage would make it much better. With your range and AV13, it's not that squishy. Especially with a lot of recent missile spam meta. What it really needs is an Ordnance profile.

    I think stacking lightning field requires an FAQ. It is a little grey and simply stating it doesn't stack would also imply you can't stack other abilities like crucible since they're worded similarly. Abilities that are specifically measured from the cryptek and not the unit like nightmare shroud would still stack being seperate sources. But I do question abilities where the unit as a whole is the source. A good example for arguing LF not stacking would be the Eldar codex and its new FAQ. Runes of warding add an extra D6 to enemy psychic tests. Taking two of these shouldn't stack because it's a passive ability. It doesn't say add an extra D6 for each runes of warding in play. The enemy simply adds a single D6 because the runes of warding is active. LF sort of falls in the same situation. The unit as a whole has lightning field and when charged they deal D6 hits. It would need to say D6 hits for each lightning field in the unit. You can also argue the polar opposite since LF also states if a unit assaults a crypek OR his unit... You could apply that the cryptek is the source and not the unit which allows you to have two individual sources of LF. Assaulting the unit that has a cryptek also means you're assaulting the cryptek. I think for now, I'm staying away from stacking some of these abilities to save some headaches.

    Though I don't think it played a big role in my last game, I am frustrated that Nemesors adaptive tactics doesn't work in reserves/Dawn of war even though it's worded exactly the same as logan grimnar's similar ability and his does. To my knowledge, every codex can't use start of turn abilties or powers when entering from reserves except for space wolves. But then again this wonderful logic is the same as some of the last psychic power faqs spread throughout the codecies. Yay for dart boards!

  2. #3382
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    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsiaie View Post
    I'm not sure if making a doomsday ark a barrage would make it much better. With your range and AV13, it's not that squishy. Especially with a lot of recent missile spam meta. What it really needs is an Ordnance profile.
    Barrage would make it harder to get cover saves against it at the cost of full scatter. Having the option would be nice.
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  3. #3383

    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asymmetric View Post
    No where does it state in either the the Necron Codex or the Necron FAQ that they do not stack. The codex does explicitly state that ether crystal does not stack but rather adds +1.
    Not the argument. Similar to a 'WAAAGH! Banna' (which says "a unit containing a WAAAGH! Banna gains +1 WS") it doesn't *have* to say it doesn't stack; the effect itself seems to imply that if a unit assault a squad with a Lightning Field inside of it; it takes D6 S8 hits.

    When you check you simply check whether the unit has one in it. This would be the argument.


    EDIT:
    As per the rest of the post; I didn't notice you had been talking about unique wargear. Whoopsi doodle

    EDIT again:
    @Alsiaie
    Precisely the argument; Runes of Warding has you make a check such as "Did the enemy take runes of warding/is the psyker still alive? Yes: Then add a d6." Similarly, when reading the rule I ask "does the squad have a lightning field? Yes: Take D6 S8 hits."

    I'm not saying for certain it does or does not; but certainly not something you want to rely on until you have a decent rules backup/faq/debate on it.
    Last edited by blurrymadness; 06-03-2012 at 00:02.

  4. #3384

    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    Was head judge at our 64-man GT this weekend; we had a surprising show of Necron players--around seven or so--with Necrons being two of the last four undefeated.

    Necrons ended up winning, though it was a list I am not personally fond of--the best way I could describe it would be Imotekh/half-Farm combined with Orikan/WW and then some Lychguard and Wraiths thrown in. Virtually no shooting, zero vehicles. The other list that was undefeated after 5 rounds was more of a vanilla mech list; no special characters, lots of AV13. He unfortunately got alphastriked virtually off the board by IG, due to Scouting Vendetta Searchlights and a PBS breaking his one big foot squad.

    The last game was a little underwhelming from an entertainment standpoint--as head judge, I had to stay and watch the entire final match, and it was one where Imotekh basically won it single-handedly with the lightning against an IG player (though not crazy-Chimera spam; there were only seven lightning targets on the board). He wasn't pleased, and actually made the guy switch dice on account of all of Imotekh's luck with the lightning. His prior round game was somewhat similar, though with Orikan and the opponent's poor rolls taking place of Imotekh and his good rolls--two Stormravens Immobilized themselves to Temporal Snares/WW, followed by two embarked Techmarines performing the following over two turns:

    Turn 1:
    1). Techmarine A casts Reconstruction
    2). Techmarine B fails Reconstruction on an 11
    3). Techmarine A fails both rolls to repair his Stormraven
    4). Techmarine B fails single roll to repair his Stormraven
    Turn 2:
    5). Techmarine A fails to Reconstruction on an 11
    6). Techmarine B casts Reconstruction
    7). Techmarine A fails single roll to repair his Stormraven
    8). Techmarine B fails both rolls to repair his Stormraven

    ...and by that time, the Scarabs and Wraiths were upon him, meaning neither Stormraven ever got to move. Given that the primary mission was Table Quarters (by VPs) and the Necron list had zero shooting capable of killing a Stormraven, Orikan taking them out of the game really ended it before it began.

    Not to take anything away from the Necron player--he still did the things he needed to do, and it's likely he had some more tactically interesting games on Day 1, but if I were to describe the reasons I would not personally play such a list it would be "because it's too heavily based on gimmicks." So watching those two gimmicks single-handedly beat two very good players certainly didn't make either of them very happy, and I would have doubts as to the long-term consistency of the build, but it absolutely worked on that day.

    I snagged all of the lists at the end of the day, and should have access to the scoring information soon, so I might go into some of the lists/outcomes in more detail later this week.

  5. #3385

    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    Now that I've play tested WW quite a bit and starting using stormlord religiously in a a 40k league, I'm convinced that necrons generate bad karma at your opponent's expense. There have been multiple matches where my necrons have done very poorly the first two turns not by fault of nightfight but either horrible penetration rolls or amazing cover/armor saves. So far almost every time I this has happened to me, necrons just turned it around once gauss got in range and starts obliterating everything it touched to win the game. RP has only changed the tides from losing a match once which was my last game against blob IG with air support. It's good to know that I don't have to rely on RP to make the army work!

    There's been three games where stormlord was above and beyond mvp, only two were related to nightfighting. I was able to shut down space wolves pretty hard core with stormlord and nemesor since they were mostly relying on long fangs for anti-tank. Same deal against an ork can-wall list shutting down three loota squads most of the game. Against that blob IG list, stormlord and his chrono/lance court (crypteks only) stood up to a CC IG blob that contained multiple power weapons, commissar and priest for six combat rounds. The guy was rolling 10+ power weapon/fist attacks a turn against stormlord and couldn't touch him.

    Mathhammer has nothing on my luck with necrons it seems lol.

    I try not to hold my breath on the 6th leak. I believe the document is real, but just an early beta playtest. Much of its content won't make it in the final copy. I didn't get a chance to check the morale section, but I'm hoping it plays out a little better than it has in 5th and 4th edition. Mostly because I want to put down a themed list using a unit of two nightmare shrouds and the traveler to create an annoying 18" bubble of stay the hell away from me.
    Last edited by Alsiaie; 06-03-2012 at 03:22.

  6. #3386

    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    On the weekend I came 5th in generalmanship out of 36 players. I used an Orikan WW list. It was voted "most frustrating list to face" which i enjoyed.

    my games were:
    Dark Eldar - draw
    Blood Angels - Win (massive after killing mephiston with an Olord)
    Vanilla Marines - Win (showed him the power of combined scarabs, wraiths, Hulkikan and an Olord)
    Dark Eldar - Win
    Grey Knights - Win
    Grey Knights - Loss. (Altho 1 lucky hit from a krak on a command barge turned a draw into a loss)

    What would you mark this out of 10 for comp? my score is at the bottom.

    Olord- 2+/3++, warscythe, MSS, OCB
    Orikan
    3 trem cryps
    2 destocryps (solar)
    Ctan, WW, Stealth
    6 warriors, ark
    5 warriors
    5 warriors
    6 scarabs
    4 wraiths, 2 whips, 1 pistol
    2 anni barges
    1 Gun ark

    comp 3 or 4 /10. i thought that was a bit harsh myself.

    i will do a batrep later. it was an interesting list that was more all round effective.

  7. #3387

    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    I never understood some tournaments' composition scores. A tournament by definition is usually a competitive setting more than anything else. You can have a nice and well behaved group of players in a competitive environment and still have fun. Docking you points just for bringing something that is competitive, bandwagon or annoying in a tournament has always pushed my buttons. Though I can't speak outside my area, but our "soft scores" don't include any points related to your army list at all other than overall appearance. Soft scores are strictly behavioral. Most tournaments around the world require a monetary entry fee and are are not required by the community for you to participate. There's a reason why tournaments exist. It's a competition. Why beat people up for competing? Though there are many ways to play WW, it isn't on the top of my list of necron armies to be very competitive. It even falls shy to foot-crons in my books. I would really laugh if GK took first place and were awarded full comp score and you didn't considering the GK's competitive nature.
    Last edited by Alsiaie; 06-03-2012 at 03:47.

  8. #3388

    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    guys ...here's a big problem.... lych guards are awesome 2 attacks! T5 and S5 ! etc etc etc.... but 45 points its absurd.... i mean 10 are 450 points!

    very frustrating....

  9. #3389

    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    Quote Originally Posted by [Furio] View Post
    guys ...here's a big problem.... lych guards are awesome 2 attacks! T5 and S5 ! etc etc etc.... but 45 points its absurd.... i mean 10 are 450 points!

    very frustrating....
    You just need a better way of looking at them. A normal lychguard is 40 points with a warscythe. A necron lord is 45 with the same gear and identical stats. Dispersion shields make them more survivable at 45. A necron lord with a WS is slightly more survivable with a 2+ armor at 60 points. Other wargear aside, lychguard are actually pretty cheap compared to royal court necron lords. The reason why there is such a point gap is due to ever-living. However ever-living can be a little overrated at times since a solo model with EL is most likely not getting back up from RP when it's surrounded in melee which both lychguard and necron lords excel in. A better reason to leave ever-living out of the equation. When you get into MSS and labyrinth, then you're looking at apples to oranges since lychguard don't have access to that gear.
    Last edited by Alsiaie; 06-03-2012 at 04:44.

  10. #3390
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    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    Quote Originally Posted by [Furio] View Post
    guys ...here's a big problem.... lych guards are awesome 2 attacks! T5 and S5 ! etc etc etc.... but 45 points its absurd.... i mean 10 are 450 points!

    very frustrating....
    Heh, thats why I am using mine pretty much in Apoc only. 10 with Zandrehk, chronometron/splinter cloak cryptek, and repair scarabs. Zandrehk being the lord of an awakener warcell.
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  11. #3391

    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    Someone is saying that crypteks who join a squad count as kill points if he dies. I believe they function exactly like wolf guard do and use the new FaQ. As For me, They function like a sergeant in the unit and kill point would be awarded if the whole squad die and then only one for wiping them all out. Who is right?
    Last edited by madival; 06-03-2012 at 05:38.
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  12. #3392

    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsiaie View Post
    You just need a better way of looking at them. A normal lychguard is 40 points with a warscythe. A necron lord is 45 with the same gear and identical stats. Dispersion shields make them more survivable at 45. A necron lord with a WS is slightly more survivable with a 2+ armor at 60 points. Other wargear aside, lychguard are actually pretty cheap compared to royal court necron lords. The reason why there is such a point gap is due to ever-living. However ever-living can be a little overrated at times since a solo model with EL is most likely not getting back up from RP when it's surrounded in melee which both lychguard and necron lords excel in. A better reason to leave ever-living out of the equation. When you get into MSS and labyrinth, then you're looking at apples to oranges since lychguard don't have access to that gear.
    yeah...lords or lychguard.....i think the best way to run lychguard is pack 7 or more models....shields and swords and a lord or overlord with resorb, keep the attached character the cheapest possible

  13. #3393
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    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    lychguard are extremly resiliant if you give them HS/DS and a res orb. just 5 will take on most things and 10 are basicly an apoc formation and will kill tanks if they have a warsythe lord. they may be expencive but very worth the points T5 = most CC units wound on 5's S5 means they wound most CC units on 3's 3+ 4++ will get rid of most small arms fire and DS's rebound effect means people wont soften them up with batle cannons or infernus/plasma pistol and then charge which is standard for killing things like death company. then they have something slightly better than a feel no pain. I use lychguard in almost every list
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  14. #3394

    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    I always wanted to get a unit of 10 Lychguards and attach 2 Scythe/MSS Lord (1 with rezOrb) and Trazyn/Zahndrekh to it.

    That's 1000pt of awesome right there, but we all know it's completely unfeasible.

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  15. #3395

    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    Guys, im gonna need your help..

    Im writing in this thread because i need some tactical and army advice for my next battle.

    I started playing in a club in my city, and so far, i have won the last 6 battles with my necrons down there. I have used various lists, mostly balanced with infantry, some cc some vehicle and some antitank. (i dont use doom arks, hate em.)

    Now, i have been challanged by the local allstar player . Hes apparently very good, and he plays either BA or SW. I dont know what im gonna go up against.

    I have allways wanted an all footcron list, cause its just awesome, and i have tried making one i feel is somewhat competetive. And thats where i need u guys. I need advice against SW, cause im quite unfamiliar playing them (and BA to a certain degree, but mostly SW).

    My list is a 1750 point list wich is as follows:

    HQ

    Trazyn the infinite 175p

    -Court 3xHoD 1w/solar pulse 1x HoE w/chronometron 1x HoS w/lightning fieldn 200p

    Nemesor Zahndrek 185p

    -Court 3xHoD 1w/solar pulse 1x lord w/ressorb, warscythe, MSS 1x HoS w/lightningfield 230p

    Obyron 165p

    Elite:
    5x Lychguard w/shields 225P

    Troops:
    10x immortals w/tesla 185
    5x warriors 65p
    5x warriors 65p
    5x warriors 65p

    Fast attack:
    5x wraiths 1 w/whipcoil 1 w/particel caster 190 p

    1750p on the dot.

    Warriors gets 2 HoD's each and the lychguards get trazyn, obyron, lord and HoE.
    Immortals gets zahndrek and the 2 HoS. The lightning should either prevent them from charging that squad or take some much required casualties in doing so. Also gives me 5 scoring units. i am however unsure of trazyn, Dont know if he is the points worth in this, or i should replace him with a normal overlord.

    I have played a similar list against Tyranids, and it peformed allright. could post the battle if you want it.

    Cheers .

  16. #3396

    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    Quote Originally Posted by madival View Post
    Someone is saying that crypteks who join a squad count as kill points if he dies. I believe they function exactly like wolf guard do and use the new FaQ. As For me, They function like a sergeant in the unit and kill point would be awarded if the whole squad die and then only one for wiping them all out. Who is right?
    I still don't understand why this even needs an FAQ to begin with. Kill points are awarded for each UNIT destroyed. When a cryptek is assigned to a unit, he becomes part of it. Is an assigned cryptek his own unit? No. Can it be singled out by shooting or CC as if it were it's own unit? No. Is he an independent character? No. Are kill points awarded for for force organization choices (assuming you kill every split off member from the same court)? No.

    @Infidel. I think what makes Trazyn unfusable even with lets say 5-7 lychguard is surrogate host. It's a horrible ability masked by a really good concept.

  17. #3397
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    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsiaie View Post
    @Infidel. I think what makes Trazyn unfusable even with lets say 5-7 lychguard is surrogate host. It's a horrible ability masked by a really good concept.
    Sadly, I have to agree.

    Making it completely random just eliminates any strategy.

    The last thing I want is to make a 500+ pt scoring trazyn/lychguard unit, and advance it to my opponent's home objective, only for trazyn to die on the penultimate turn, and warp back to replace a destruction cryptek, in a warrior squad guarding my home objective.
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  18. #3398
    Chapter Master brassangel's Avatar
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    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ3 View Post
    Was head judge at our 64-man GT this weekend; we had a surprising show of Necron players--around seven or so--with Necrons being two of the last four undefeated.

    Necrons ended up winning, though it was a list I am not personally fond of--the best way I could describe it would be Imotekh/half-Farm combined with Orikan/WW and then some Lychguard and Wraiths thrown in. Virtually no shooting, zero vehicles. The other list that was undefeated after 5 rounds was more of a vanilla mech list; no special characters, lots of AV13. He unfortunately got alphastriked virtually off the board by IG, due to Scouting Vendetta Searchlights and a PBS breaking his one big foot squad.

    The last game was a little underwhelming from an entertainment standpoint--as head judge, I had to stay and watch the entire final match, and it was one where Imotekh basically won it single-handedly with the lightning against an IG player (though not crazy-Chimera spam; there were only seven lightning targets on the board). He wasn't pleased, and actually made the guy switch dice on account of all of Imotekh's luck with the lightning. His prior round game was somewhat similar, though with Orikan and the opponent's poor rolls taking place of Imotekh and his good rolls--two Stormravens Immobilized themselves to Temporal Snares/WW, followed by two embarked Techmarines performing the following over two turns:

    Turn 1:
    1). Techmarine A casts Reconstruction
    2). Techmarine B fails Reconstruction on an 11
    3). Techmarine A fails both rolls to repair his Stormraven
    4). Techmarine B fails single roll to repair his Stormraven
    Turn 2:
    5). Techmarine A fails to Reconstruction on an 11
    6). Techmarine B casts Reconstruction
    7). Techmarine A fails single roll to repair his Stormraven
    8). Techmarine B fails both rolls to repair his Stormraven

    ...and by that time, the Scarabs and Wraiths were upon him, meaning neither Stormraven ever got to move. Given that the primary mission was Table Quarters (by VPs) and the Necron list had zero shooting capable of killing a Stormraven, Orikan taking them out of the game really ended it before it began.

    Not to take anything away from the Necron player--he still did the things he needed to do, and it's likely he had some more tactically interesting games on Day 1, but if I were to describe the reasons I would not personally play such a list it would be "because it's too heavily based on gimmicks." So watching those two gimmicks single-handedly beat two very good players certainly didn't make either of them very happy, and I would have doubts as to the long-term consistency of the build, but it absolutely worked on that day.

    I snagged all of the lists at the end of the day, and should have access to the scoring information soon, so I might go into some of the lists/outcomes in more detail later this week.
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  19. #3399

    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gungardin View Post
    Guys, im gonna need your help..
    Considering your point limit, most of your troops will most likely get wiped out even with RP. They don't have transports and RP won't do much with 5 man units. Lightning field is good but it wont save you from swarms. Even against 10 MEQ models, LF won't stop a charge against 5 warriors. I'm not saying taking 5 man units is completely bad. But I think you should have at least two 10 man scoring units for each 5 man scoring unit in your army. I understand the concept of 5-man warrior/lance units but taking three of them and little mobile scoring units can really hurt you. Though Nemesor is really good and is generally universal, I don't think he fits well in the list. Some people take him just for the res orb so they don't have to drop 65 points on a resy-lord but I feel your wraiths are the only unit that can really benefit from adaptive tactics. In this case the immortals have become a miniature death star (lack of better term) with two LF (which I don't think stack) and an independant character with no close combat ability. Though counter tacticts is really useful, taking Nemesor to strip furious charge from BA will be hit and miss. Army comp will play into this, but bare minumum 50% the charges you take against BA will be from transports. Counter Tactics won't help you there. Nemesor is really good against SW but more so when paired with stormlord and being able to shut down long fangs. Removing counter-attack is ok, but necrons charging is few, far and between. Maybe if you had more lychguard.

    Keep in mind that being "mobile" doesn't require ghost arks or a monolith. But I don't think a 5 man warrior unit with a veil is a good alternative. For the most part, veiling on an objective can be really rough. You don't have a lot of mobile or agressive units and most likely your opponent will swarm the objectives before you do preventing veil from directly landing on them. Even if you do manage to veil within range, the unit has a good chance of being shot down in the following turn and won't be holding it very long. Best case scenario, you veil an objective on the bottom of the last game turn. I use a veil cryptek myself to score objectives and I think it really can work as an alternative to a ghost ark for foot-crons. But only having 1 veil and no other tansports is a little different. 10 immortals who can withstand a little more retaliation in late game objective grabbing but will still struggle deepstriking safely within range of an already taken objective. Either that or veil a 15-20 warrior blob supported by a MSS lord and lightning field (maybe Anrakry) for an early-game grab.

    Though I tend to blabber, it's my roll of 2 cents.
    Last edited by Alsiaie; 06-03-2012 at 13:40.

  20. #3400

    Re: Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

    Many thanks for the very quick reply . Yes i was playing with 2x 9 immortal squads when i played the army against tyranids. But im afraid 4 lances isnt gonna cut it. Well zahndrek is mostly there to buff the lychguards and the wraiths, but also the immortals if they become the target of a charge. About the veil, i do have obyron, who can shift between the squads that needs travel. So i can either port the lychguards to contest the enemy objective or the immortals to score. But yes, i do feel its a but light in the troop section, i just really want this army to work. i like playing footcron so much .

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