Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

[Alsiaie]

Personally I'd say no roll occurs. 2+ is the best a roll gets in this game, and that's in the book, ergo automatic (or 1+) doesn't actually get rolled.

I do see that it's not clearcut though.

I remember this being an ongoing discussion with the old CSM codex in 4th edition. T-sons used to auto pass psychic tests. It was debatable whether you rolled it for purposes of perils of the warp. GW never addressed the issue by FAQ or in 5th edition.

[Starwolf]

Well, I'm sure GW will resolve this issue for us in 6th ed.

[Alsiaie]

Hopefully. A new edition also means new problems. Every game system has them. The mistakes or unclear areas are not the problem. It's how quickly the company addresses them.

Has anyone noticed that the canoptek spyder is on a small jetbike base? The model is still a good size but for the price, I'd expect it to be slightly smaller than a rhino. I can't say for others, but I don't know any players who have spare small flying bases laying around when one breaks. I am really happy to see that GW made bigger holes on the necron models though for the other flight stands. Instead of breaking stand tips left and right, GW is doing what players have been for years and that is utilizing larger holes to fit the thicker part of the stem.

[Necr0n]

Regardless, how often will we be assaulting into dangerous terrain anyways?

About.. all the time? Remember, Wraiths are Jump Infantry now!

[Alsiaie]

About.. all the time? Remember, Wraiths are Jump Infantry now!

Yep. Anyone fielding them at adepticon got to feel the wrath of their ruling. I1 every time when assaulting into terrain. Which is funny because INAT didn't rule this way for C'tans and GW's FAQ made it very clear that C'tans don't strike at I1 even though their ability is the pretty much the same as wraiths. I could write about how contridictory the INAT is all day though lol.

[DJ3]

About.. all the time? Remember, Wraiths are Jump Infantry now!

Yep. Anyone fielding them at adepticon got to feel the wrath of their ruling. I1 every time when assaulting into terrain.

I think you both missed an important step here, and it might be why you're more concerned about this situation than it likely warrants.

Difficult Terrain is not Dangerous for Jump Infantry when Assaulting. Jump Infantry perform Assaults as normal Infantry. You've gotten confused with Bikes/Jetbikes.

There's no reason to think Wraiths would go to I1 for standard Difficult Terrain, because that is what they are stated to flat-out ignore. Even INAT made this separation, quite clearly.

Even if you ascribe to the belief that an automatically passed roll is still a roll, you're still not going to run into much problem with it, because that still only affects Wraiths when going into actual Difficult Dangerous Terrain. So unless you're playing against another Necron player who's got WW up, it's almost never going to be an issue, except in the case of Vehicle Wrecks and some Psychic Powers.

[itcamefromthedeep]

Difficult Terrain is not Dangerous for Jump Infantry when Assaulting. Jump Infantry perform Assaults as normal Infantry. You've gotten confused with Bikes/Jetbikes.

Absolutley correct.

Even if you ascribe to the belief that an automatically passed roll is still a roll, you're still not going to run into much problem with it, because that still only affects Wraiths when going into actual Difficult Terrain.

I think you mean "Dangerous" terrain there. A simple typo, I presume.

For super-extra clarity: Wraiths wouldn't suffer the penalty unless they assault into dangerous terrain such as a vehicle wreck or the opponent uses a special ability that causes dangerous terrain tests (Such as Writhing Worldscape or Venomthropes).

[DJ3]

Fixed that. Shouldn't be posting from my phone!

[Starwolf]

Exactly. Which is why I don't see wraiths' assaulting to be crippled overly much.

So, Obyron. How is he best? I'm toying with running him with 3 spyders for allocation shenanigans and CC decency. Worth it?

[Buddha777]

Exactly. Which is why I don't see wraiths' assaulting to be crippled overly much.

So, Obyron. How is he best? I'm toying with running him with 3 spyders for allocation shenanigans and CC decency. Worth it?

Not alot of personal experience with Obyron but a player in club uses him very effectively with a large unit of lychguard (10 strong). He has a mobile list to match as well.

Outside of lychguard however I'm not sure what he is best for. He is a CC monster no doubt but he still has crap initiative and not properly supported can be crushed pretty easily.

[gutsmaka]

so, what would be the best way to equip spyders and wraiths, and in what squad sizes?

[kaptin_blacksquigg]

Personally I like my Spyders naked (I dislike spending 10-15 points on upgrades purely for wound allocation tricks and don't see much use in the options they have).
Wraiths, about 50% with whip coils and a sprinkling of partial blasters for wound allocation and a shooting option.

[Spiney Norman]

Exactly. Which is why I don't see wraiths' assaulting to be crippled overly much.

So, Obyron. How is he best? I'm toying with running him with 3 spyders for allocation shenanigans and CC decency. Worth it?

I guess a squad of three monstrous creatures able to DS without scatter is a pretty scary prospect, especially vs an army that deploys via DS as Zahndrek allows you to get the jump on them in their turn.

[Str10_hurts]

Personally I like my Spyders naked (I dislike spending 10-15 points on upgrades purely for wound allocation tricks and don't see much use in the options they have).
Wraiths, about 50% with whip coils and a sprinkling of partial blasters for wound allocation and a shooting option.

I agree to a certain extent. Spiders should be left naked, with 1500 pts and up take the upgrade that gives psychic protection.
For wraiths I like to keep them cheap, most of my matches to date results in wraiths being focus fired down. Just a couple whip coils for me. If you have points left you can get some more wound shenanigans on them, but not at all costs IMHO.

[Chaos Undecided]

Personally thinking of taking a fairly chunky unit of wraiths with a few whip coils and sticking a fairly basic destroyer lord in with them, hardly the most novel idea I imagine and a complete bullet magnet but I can see it being a useful problem solving unit

[gutsmaka]

ok, thanks, I'll try 6 wraiths with 3 whip coils and 2 particle casters. thats 255p and then I'll put a dlord in the unit. go hunt straggelers

[andalucien]

At my busiest local store (which hosts a tournament with 30+ people once a month), it was ruled that the Command Barge flyovers would work the same way as the Dark Eldar Reaver flyovers. In other words, to do a sweep attack, you have to be able to draw a line from the starting position of the barge, through the target, and ending at the barge's position after movement. It's funny, Alex Fennel (the PinkCron player from the Adepticon video you pointed out) plays at all of this store's tournaments so he would normally be playing under that ruling.

The leniency of "flying over" for sweep attacks DEFINITELY needs to be FAQ'd. There's no answer in the codex or existing FAQ's (not even INAT). The closest we have is the "precedent" for similar abilities in the Dark Eldar codex.

[Str10_hurts]

Now that were talking about wraiths anyway what would be better? 3 wraiths with wipcoil, caster and destroyer lord or 5-6 tooled wraiths in general?

[Necr0n]

Now that were talking about wraiths anyway what would be better? 3 wraiths with wipcoil, caster and destroyer lord or 5-6 tooled wraiths in general?

The problem with the Destroyer lord is that he allows no Courts. That's why he's not being used as much. He's also not giving them the benefit of orbs (who usually is one of the main reasons to inculde a lord of any kind in a unit) AND he's crippling the Wraiths' movement. With him, they can't ignore terrain!

Usually, I like to field my wraiths with CCB OLs. They both charge forward with cover saves/invu saves and make a kind of "imminent threat" so that the rest of my army is kind of overlooked (nightfighting helps here) while they suck ridiculous ammounts of fire.

Maxed allocation Wraiths are awsome. Sometimes acting as fire magnets, others just killing stuff hiding behind buildings/ruins (such as manticores), or just some marines I cannot seem to kill otherwise. They are my all-comers unit, coming to rescue me from any situtation I cannot face.

[Str10_hurts]

Ok, most of your reasons make sense, especially the wraith movement being hamperd. Except for the ressurection orb being the reason you take a lord, with was thoroughly discussed 50 pages or so back, but lets leave it at that .

Still the question remains what is better in general, 3 wraiths and a destroyer lord or 5-6 tooled wraiths? Or is their function different, is one flexible the other for dealing damage, which one can handle more damage from small arms fire or high strength weapons?