Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

[Souleater]

If Preferred Enemy does work on shooting then Tomb Blades will happily throw around S6 blasts. Regular Destroyers took a huge nerf to their guns such that whatever you can do with them now can probably be done better with another unit.

Other than potential model purchases I don't see the point in discussing a change that won't happen for 6-7 months.

HDs are still good, highly mobile AT.

Warriors are durable as long as the unit size stays up. I've seen a lot of Necron players try to field 5-8 man squads, usually as Cryptek bunkers or objective holders. Smallarms quickly put the whole unit down thanks to the lower armour - RP then becomes irrelevant.

Larger units with an Ark or Res Orb are better, naturally. I have more difficulty dealing with Plague Marines. They are by no means fragile but I don't see where they have "truly phenomenal durability".

[Infidel]

Larger units with an Ark or Res Orb are better, naturally. I have more difficulty dealing with Plague Marines. They are by no means fragile but I don't see where they have "truly phenomenal durability".

Christmas holiday, got nothing to do, am online all the time. D:

With resorb (which comes free on Zahndrekh) and stuck in cover, they have the equivilent of a rerollable 4+ against practically anything that doesn't deny cover and is also AP4 and you will always use the special characters to absorb wounds. When it comes to the end game where every troop counts, you can GtG for a 3+ or even use Zahndrekh to give the unit a 2+ cover.

In the games I've played, I had Imhotekh and Zahndrekh both running with a squad of warriors and this way you can keep piling wounds onto the special characters unless they can inflict enough wounds such that you must put wounds onto your dwindled warrior squad.

If you don't manage to break the unit or shoot it off the board in one turn, even if you are to kill 9 out of the 10 warrior, 4.5 will stand back up and my 2 ghost arks will regenerate another 4, so on average, unless you can kill more than 9 warriors in a turn, then all the damage you've done to the unit is for naught.

Statistically, you can cop 54 bolter shots to the face (the statistical average required to inflict 9 casualities) for an indefinate period of time and win through attrition.

I need to stop wrapping my mouth around its c*ck before it falls off.

[Sekhmet]

However in a list like that, you run into some serious problem with overloading your FA. Potentially I see Zahndrekh, Destroyer Lord, 2x3 Heavy Destroyers, 6 Wraiths and 3 A. Barges. Throw in a Solar Pulse Cryptek and 2~3 squads of immortals and I'd say that's a pretty solid list.

Look at the 1500 pt list in my sig and add a destroyer lord.

[itcamefromthedeep]

I think it's a pretty safe assumption, but whatever.

There are a bunch of odd consequences there. Even after a Black Templars reboot there's Old Adversary on Hive Tyrants.

Now, you could certainly argue that Tyranids deserve a boost or two, but twin-linking every gun on every unit within 6" of that MC seems kinda awesome. You can fit a lot of Tyrannofexes/Hive Guard/Zoanthropes/Devilgaunts/Heavy Venom Cannons/Tyranid Warriors in that bubble.

If Preferred Enemy does work on shooting then Tomb Blades will happily throw around S6 blasts. Regular Destroyers took a huge nerf to their guns such that whatever you can do with them now can probably be done better with another unit.

The importance of AP3 may change dramatically depending on what happens with cover. That could justify Destroyers.

[lethlis]

i play tested two units of two heavy destroyers. they were pretty much ignored all game because the triarch stalker took most of the anti tank fire and by then I had dropped everything with range. this was against blood angels.

[kaubin]

Veil of Darkness Tactica - how to use it!

I was thinking of setting up a seperate thread for this, but thought I would ask here first.

How would you use the veil of darkness cryptek? Which unit suits this cryptek, and how far away from a target should they aim for to get the maximum effect out of it? What unit size is perfect for deep-striking?

I like the idea of two units of warriors with crypteks so they can concentrate fire, hopefully in rapid-fire range, to a limited, weaker area of the board and take out army chunks that are left vulnerable. I can see many problems with this though, such as the mishaps taking place with bad positioning, units being too large to deep-strike safely, and aiming for rapid-fire might not always work, meaning that they probably need a phaeron to pick up the slack in case they deep-strike 12 inches away.

I also like the idea of the veil cryptek in a unit of deathmarks to wound on a 2+ with his template weapons. Templates being only 8 inches long though, to get a maximum effect, it is essential to land closer to the target unit. But how close would maximize damage and minimize the risk of a deepstrike mishap?

Other than these uses do you have another potentially good use for the veil cryptek? How can you best play him and deep-strike effectively?

[Necr0n]

Anyone knows when the FAQ is gonna be released? Also, DJ3 can you give us something about EverLiving? That's the thing thats buggin me the most. I don't really know how to play it. If all my crypteks die, do they roll to get back up..? I mean it's not just simple RP, it should let them get back up, right..?

[Infidel]

Veil eh?

I really loved the idea of the veil but couldn't find a place for it in my zero-comp list.

Veil benefits stuff that needs to work up-close: Rapidfire, template, melta and assault.

Rapidfire:
Deathmark is the obvious choice here, coupled with the AP1 template that wounds on 2+, it's a premiere choice against practically any target with a toughness but with the current wound-allocation rule, is entirely possible for you to end up killing less model by causing more wounds.

Given the investment of the veil, it's natural to want to maximize the number of deathmarks in the unit, which makes it a rather difficult sale for 250pt. 2x 5 men deathmark for 310 is a bit more efficient but still quite expensive for what is roughly the equivalent of 2 units of Flamer of Tzeentch.

Despite its shortfalls, this is probably the best place to have your veil on, not to mention the idea of a squad of deathmark phasing in and out of existance to be extremely cool.

Rapidfire warrior or immortal is also plausible but I'll lean towards immortals more than warriors because warrior require larger units to inflict damage. There's the obvious benefit of teleporting scoring units too so this is also a viable option. However, I'll almost always include something with a punch to act as a CC deterrent. Scythe MSS lord works, if you take a Phaeron, this might also be a good place to stick it.

Teleporting Blaster Immortal is #2 place for your Veil to be and Warrior #3 by a fair margin.

Assault:
Lychguard is the obvious choice but to run it optimally, you'll want to take 2 separate courts, one to give it the obligatory Scythe/MSS lord and the other to give it veil. If you don't mind having your lord being singled out, then a Scythe/MSS/Resorb Overlord is the obvious one to include here. The unit also benefits hugely from a Chronometron.

Teleport next to the enemy and weather a turn of shooting then wreck face in h2h is the obvious plan of action but you stand to lose some 3~400pt worth of units to a single mishap.

Veiling Lychguards is a close #4, just behind veiling warriors.

Others
Veiling royal court is also a possibility, whether it be a CC court or a Lance court. Teleport the lance court around to get side/rear armour shot is entirely viable but it makes the unit quite expensive very quickly.

If you have 2 courts, having a lance and a veil in a blaster immortal squad with a Overlord may not be such a terrible idea either.

In sum, I can see the following uses for veil:

1. 5x Deathmarks + Veil
2. 10 x Deathmarks + Veil
3. 10x Immortal + Scythe/MSS Lord + Veil
4. 10x Immortal + Scythe/MSS Overlord + Veil (Or Obyron)
5. 10x Immortal + Scythe/MSS/Phaeron Overlord + Eldrich Lance (Maybe Solar Pulse/Gaze of Flame) + Veil
6. Warriors + Scythe/MSS Lord + Veil
7. 20x Warriors + Scythe/MSS/Phaeron Overlord + Veil
8. 4x Eldrich Lance + Chronometron + Obyron
9. Lychguards + Scythe/MSS Lord + Veil (Or Obyron)
10. Lychguards + Chronometron + Scythe/MSS Overlord + Veil (Or Obyron)
11. 3x Eldrich Lance + Chronometron + Veil (CC Lord optional)

In some cases, it may be better to take Obyron instead of Scythe/MSS Overlord and Veil Cryptek if don't want a royal court or already have another Lord to unlock it.

Of course, this does depend on what happens to deepstrike in the next edition. If mishap becomes less unforgiving, then veils become a lot more viable.

[kaubin]

Veil eh?

I really loved the idea of the veil but couldn't find a place for it in my zero-comp list.

Veil benefits stuff that needs to work up-close: Rapidfire, template, melta and assault.

Rapidfire:
Deathmark is the obvious choice here, coupled with the AP1 template that wounds on 2+, it's a premiere choice against practically any target with a toughness but with the current wound-allocation rule, is entirely possible for you to end up killing less model by causing more wounds.

Given the investment of the veil, it's natural to want to maximize the number of deathmarks in the unit, which makes it a rather difficult sale for 250pt. 2x 5 men deathmark for 310 is a bit more efficient but still quite expensive for what is roughly the equivalent of 2 units of Flamer of Tzeentch.

Despite its shortfalls, this is probably the best place to have your veil on, not to mention the idea of a squad of deathmark phasing in and out of existance to be extremely cool.

Rapidfire warrior or immortal is also plausible but I'll lean towards immortals more than warriors because warrior require larger units to inflict damage. There's the obvious benefit of teleporting scoring units too so this is also a viable option. However, I'll almost always include something with a punch to act as a CC deterrent. Scythe MSS lord works, if you take a Phaeron, this might also be a good place to stick it.

Teleporting Blaster Immortal is #2 place for your Veil to be and Warrior #3 by a fair margin.

Assault:
Lychguard is the obvious choice but to run it optimally, you'll want to take 2 separate courts, one to give it the obligatory Scythe/MSS lord and the other to give it veil. If you don't mind having your lord being singled out, then a Scythe/MSS/Resorb Overlord is the obvious one to include here. The unit also benefits hugely from a Chronometron.

Teleport next to the enemy and weather a turn of shooting then wreck face in h2h is the obvious plan of action but you stand to lose some 3~400pt worth of units to a single mishap.

Veiling Lychguards is a close #4, just behind veiling warriors.

Others
Veiling royal court is also a possibility, whether it be a CC court or a Lance court. Teleport the lance court around to get side/rear armour shot is entirely viable but it makes the unit quite expensive very quickly.

If you have 2 courts, having a lance and a veil in a blaster immortal squad with a Overlord may not be such a terrible idea either.

In sum, I can see the following uses for veil:

1. 5x Deathmarks + Veil
2. 10 x Deathmarks + Veil
3. 10x Immortal + Scythe/MSS Lord + Veil
4. 10x Immortal + Scythe/MSS Overlord + Veil (Or Obyron)
5. 10x Immortal + Scythe/MSS/Phaeron Overlord + Eldrich Lance (Maybe Solar Pulse/Gaze of Flame) + Veil
6. Warriors + Scythe/MSS Lord + Veil
7. 20x Warriors + Scythe/MSS/Phaeron Overlord
8. 4x Eldrich Lance + Chronometron + Obyron
9. Lychguards + Scythe/MSS Lord + Veil (Or Obyron)
10. Lychguards + Chronometron + Scythe/MSS Overlord + Veil (Or Obyron)
11. 3x Eldrich Lance + Chronometron + Veil (CC Lord optional)

In some cases, it may be better to take Obyron instead of Scythe/MSS Overlord and Veil Cryptek if don't want a royal court or already have another Lord to unlock it.

Of course, this does depend on what happens to deepstrike in the next edition. If mishap becomes less unforgiving, then veils become a lot more viable.

Thanks for the post, I was looking at trying two units of 20 teleporting warriors with phaerons for maximum potential damage, rather than the higher strength Immortals that are capped at 10, although it feels a little dangerous

How many inches away would you consider deep striking the initial model in each case. Obviously you won`t want to shoot out 20 warriors the same distance as you might want to fire a small Lychguard force.

Obryon as an IC also gives interesting options as well, like sending some heavy destroyers in the back of a leman russ to shoot its back armor, or getting a Ctan with area of effect abilities like Lord of Fire or that "vehicle in dangerous terrain" one in the middle of the enemy`s troops, or porting scarabs away from a tar pit unit meant to intercept them.

I think the veil can be a very good tool, but i`m sure there is more that can be done with it and we haven`t even started scratching the surface of what it could potentially do.

[Starwolf]

Deepstriking 20 warriors sounds very dangerous. Plus, if you're running phaerons you won't need the veil, since you can move and shoot? It just seems a little redundant to me to include phaeron AND veil, but I suppose it depends on your tactics.

[Infidel]

Deepstriking 20 warriors sounds very dangerous. Plus, if you're running phaerons you won't need the veil, since you can move and shoot? It just seems a little redundant to me to include phaeron AND veil, but I suppose it depends on your tactics.

With Phaeron you can be 24" away and still be quite effective and this increases the area in which you can deepstrike and thus mitigate the risk of the big blob mishapping,

I was looking at trying two units of 20 teleporting warriors with phaerons for maximum potential damage, rather than the higher strength Immortals that are capped at 10, although it feels a little dangerous .

It is, thus the Phaeron ^^

How many inches away would you consider deep striking the initial model in each case. Obviously you won`t want to shoot out 20 warriors the same distance as you might want to fire a small Lychguard force.

The 20-men blob I'd place some 12" away, the Lychguard 3~4" away (you might want to use Zahndrekh to give them Counter-Attack or Stealth) and the immortals depending on the situation. Must they shoot this turn? It's a variable starting as with Lychguards (3~4") all the way to 8~9" away if you want them to be safe.

Obryon as an IC also gives interesting options as well, like sending some heavy destroyers in the back of a leman russ to shoot its back armor, or getting a Ctan with area of effect abilities like Lord of Fire or that "vehicle in dangerous terrain" one in the middle of the enemy`s troops, or porting scarabs away from a tar pit unit meant to intercept them.

ICs can't join units that can only ever consist of a single model, ala C'tans. He can join Scarab Swarms and Spyders though.

[DJ3]

Anyone knows when the FAQ is gonna be released? Also, DJ3 can you give us something about EverLiving? That's the thing thats buggin me the most. I don't really know how to play it. If all my crypteks die, do they roll to get back up..? I mean it's not just simple RP, it should let them get back up, right..?

Everliving is a mess--I'm not going anywhere near that. They clearly wrote it with ICs in mind and then never went back and editted it to function with Crypteks/Lords, the rules just flat out don't work in regard to the Court joining mechanism.

It's best to just work out what you feel is most 'fair' and then try to sell your opponents on it as well, while we wait for the FAQ.

(or feel like playing "hide the warriors in a corner") while the Ark riding court really is a good option for those that DO like metal robots laying down in the woods.

13 point Plaguebearers with guns! And a vehicle that can spontaneously make more of them! And a Monolith can make them move around!

WE'RE LIVING THE DREAM OVER HERE

wooooooooooooo

As they stand destroyers aren't all that hot. Now I think they WILL be pretty hot once the editions switch over and preferred enemy works with shooting in addition to close combat.

d

Just for reference, I verbally assault anyone I see repeat this rumor in real life. Such a godawful stupid rumor.

The only reason people think this is true is because Destroyers have Preferred Enemy. Beyond that, there is no "source" to it, no reason to think it's true, and no logic to it. Just "a shooty unit has Preferred Enemy and a new edition is soon! PE must work on Shooting!"

It won't. I will eat a hat of your choosing if that is true. Destroyers have PE because they're Destroyers and it's the fluff thing for them to have now. Their entire fluff is that they hate everything and want it all to die. So they got a useless special rule (except on the Lords, where it is not useless) to reflect the fluff.

If Destroyers do somehow end up benefitting from Preferred Enemy, it will be because Preferred Enemy is nothing like what it is now. Remember, USRs are in the main rulebook. It could be anything. But it won't be Twin-Linking ranged weapons. Else, hat-eating.

pps. I thought this thread was DJs?

Don't tell anyone!

[Mandragola]

Phaerons are horrible. I'm sorry, how many points extra are you spending to let warriors fire once at 24"? Even a unit of 20 sees its cost go up nearly 50% for this, even with an overlord without any other upgrades. And this in a codex that already features a troops unit with a gun you can fire at 24" on the move.

Also, if all you want to do is get within 24" of your target - walk. Don't pay another 60 points for the privilege of scattering and getting grouped up beautifully for blasts coming in the other direction.

20 warriors, plus a veil cryptek, plus a basic phaeron comes to 430 points. It gets to fire 20 S4 shots while pointlessly blipping around the battlefield until somebody fires a heavy flamer (or anything) at it. No. Those 430 points could buy you 25 tesla immortals instead, with none of the risk or hassle and leaving your HQ free to actually accomplish something.

Edit: When PE starts working with shooting, I will be found playing Black Templars.

[Theocracity]

Just for reference, I verbally assault anyone I see repeat this rumor in real life. Such a godawful stupid rumor.

The only reason people think this is true is because Destroyers have Preferred Enemy. Beyond that, there is no "source" to it, no reason to think it's true, and no logic to it. Just "a shooty unit has Preferred Enemy and a new edition is soon! PE must work on Shooting!"

Technically, the 6th edition rumor dump that stated "PE works with shooting" came long before the Necron codex. The fact that Destroyers have them was taken as confirmation of it, which is why it gets repeated more.

Whether or not you believe the original rumor dump is more the question. I still have the link to the google doc it came from if you're interested (I can PM it rather than take this thread off topic).

[Spiney Norman]

I'm thinking over my options for adding a court character to a liche guard unit. I'm considering the following
Cryptek with chronometron
Cryptek with veil of darkness
Lord with MSS and res. orb

Thought? Or are there other combos worth considering that i've missed

[kaubin]

Phaerons are horrible. I'm sorry, how many points extra are you spending to let warriors fire once at 24"? Even a unit of 20 sees its cost go up nearly 50% for this, even with an overlord without any other upgrades. And this in a codex that already features a troops unit with a gun you can fire at 24" on the move.

Also, if all you want to do is get within 24" of your target - walk. Don't pay another 60 points for the privilege of scattering and getting grouped up beautifully for blasts coming in the other direction.

20 warriors, plus a veil cryptek, plus a basic phaeron comes to 430 points. It gets to fire 20 S4 shots while pointlessly blipping around the battlefield until somebody fires a heavy flamer (or anything) at it. No. Those 430 points could buy you 25 tesla immortals instead, with none of the risk or hassle and leaving your HQ free to actually accomplish something.

Edit: When PE starts working with shooting, I will be found playing Black Templars.

To be fair you do need an HQ choice - you`re making it sound like 25 tesla immortals is cheaper than 20 warriors and a cryptek. By saying it leaves your HQ free to accomplish something, i`m guessing you`re probably putting him in a barge, and then it is a completely different list trying to accomplish something completely different.

I see the phaeron as something that doesn`t let your 260 point investment go to waste by opponents staying out of range - adding combat scariness to an otherwise weak cc option with a scythe and mind shackle scarabs, and that can potentially make your guys even harder to kill, adding to rp rolls. I personally like it, but I can see how it might not be for everyone.

[row]

Quick question guys:
In a Royal Court, can you have more than 1 harbinger?
For example; upgrade 4 to harbinger of destruction and not give them wargear eg faze of flame or solar pulse? Just purely get the upgrade for the lance?

I'm pretty sure i can, just want to get your opinions.
TIA

[Aetaos]

Eeeer, little question here : am i misleading, or MMS lord are awfully insane against walkers ? Because actually a walker don't have any morale value, so any test based on this caracteristic should be an auto-fail, according to the BRB... That would mean that a 60 point guy could crush as many defiler, dreadnought or ork dread as he could reach in cc... Have i forgotten something because it seems to me quite odd....

[DJ3]

Technically, the 6th edition rumor dump that stated "PE works with shooting" came long before the Necron codex. The fact that Destroyers have them was taken as confirmation of it, which is why it gets repeated more.

Whether or not you believe the original rumor dump is more the question. I still have the link to the google doc it came from if you're interested (I can PM it rather than take this thread off topic).

The release of the Codex was hardly the moment at which we learned Destroyers had PE. There's a 9/8 BoLS post about it, and we all know BoLS is always the last to find out about these things--it's hard to sift through the threads here or at Dakka because they all get editted and re-editted with new information, or re-summarized and the old threads deleted.

I'd love to see the document you're talking about, because as someone who was knee-deep in all the Necron Rumor threads, I absolutely did not see anything about PE working with Shooting until well after we'd gotten serious rumors about Destroyers having PE.

Quick question guys:
In a Royal Court, can you have more than 1 harbinger?
For example; upgrade 4 to harbinger of destruction and not give them wargear eg faze of flame or solar pulse? Just purely get the upgrade for the lance?

I'm pretty sure i can, just want to get your opinions.
TIA

You're fine as long as you don't take multiples of the wargear upgrades, yes. You can have five Harbingers of Destruction in a single court, but only one Solar Pulse or Gaze of Flame.

Eeeer, little question here : am i misleading, or MMS lord are awfully insane against walkers ? Because actually a walker don't have any morale value, so any test based on this caracteristic should be an auto-fail, according to the BRB... That would mean that a 60 point guy could crush as many defiler, dreadnought or ork dread as he could reach in cc... Have i forgotten something because it seems to me quite odd....

There are lengthy, somewhat-insane Rules Forum posts about this as well as Time's Arrow.

As far as people outside of the Rules Forum are concerned, no, don't try to use MSS against Dreadnaughts. And don't try to use Time's Arrow against vehicles.

In all other cases, across all the other Codexes, abilities like these are written with a disclaimer stating "Models without [the stat] automatically pass." or "Models without [the stat] cannot be affected." or a simple "non-vehicle models" clause.

It's much, much simpler to assume whoever wrote the book was lazy and/or stupid and forgot to add the tiny disclaimer rather than expecting us all to sift through clues to determine we can instantly remove Land Raiders from the game or make Dreadnaughts automatically punch themselves. It's more of a cute typo to point out to people than something you should actually be trying in an actual game.

[Starwolf]

For the cryptek court in a ghost ark... do you guys actually run it, or is it still just theory? For one, it seems a little clunky to have to move them in and hope that you go first, otherwise your court risks getting shot at. For another, some things don't work out as well in practice as they do in theory.