Asymmetric - how are Tomb Blades better then Barges in your list? Not saying they are not but ...
1 Tomb Blades, Particle Beamer - 90
1 Annihilation Barge, Tesla Cannon, TL Tesla Destructor, Arc - 90
Which will hurt more transports? You already have enough anti-infantry right?
Co-Founder Anti-Mech League
Winning with bad lists
I'm still undecided. I own two monoliths, so I will run those in the meantime, but I'm leaning towards spyders and 1 monolith.Originally Posted by SiegeCommander
Guys, don't take the annihilation barge... just get a night scythe as a dedicated transport. It's 10 points more expensive, but isn't open-topped, which is golden in my opinion. You give up a secondary weapon (which is mostly useless anyways) and get a chance to pick up troops and grab/contests objectives late in the game.
The only worry for spyders is my lack of scarab bases... and I have a feeling the price of those on auction sides just went way up. Otherwise I think they're great.
If there was a model I would consider it. For now the barge serves its purpose, provides lots of shots and more AV13 floating around the board.
Sheesh, now people want models for their unit entries?!
And it turns out I didn't realize... no quantum shielding for the night scythe. Scratch that idea then. Annihilation barge is back on the table.
Ive run the Anni barge a mono and 2 spyders in the last games I've played the mix is ok and give the opponent a choice of what to shoot at, the big scary mono with all it's kit or tge mid range blender of the Anni barge or the advancing MC's plus all the other stuff, seems to work for me.(though I mainly use these as that's what I got at the moment).
I think they work well together, the S7 is not great vs front armour unless its just a transport, against anything else you want side armour shots and the barge won't get those easily. Combining the fast scythes on a flank with barges in the front means the enemy can't just turn to face the threat.Sheesh, now people want models for their unit entries?!
And it turns out I didn't realize... no quantum shielding for the night scythe. Scratch that idea then. Annihilation barge is back on the table.
It was really just the top list on the Army List Forums. I would have put up a list but I only really make 2k lists and was being lazy. But the list I quoted has non-gimicky synergy. The two Phareons give the gauss squads relentless (making them more effective), the Phareon's royal courts get broken up to provide each squad with two 36" heavy hitting weapons (making them more effective) and the Tomb Blades provide a little mobility and late game objective contesting. The entire list is built to ram the immortal squads down your throat. Where as your enemies list was built with the hopes of you failing dangerous terrain tests. One list is built around causing damage and the other is built around the hopes that you die to a gimmick.
Think about it like this. The list you faced has about 1/6-1/5th of the effective fire that the list I quoted has. And at only a 350 point difference. Also, the list I quoted is capable of withstanding much more damage and keep coming.
Or if you would rather the list you faced spent 700ish points on gimmicks. Imotekh, special Vail of Darkness, C'Tan and two Transmogrifors. Almost 1/2 of the total points. So what I'm getting at is that you should play against a few Necron armies that are geared towards the Necron's strengths before posting how the Tyranids are such a bad matchup for them.
The weakness in your list is lack of range and lack of speed, which this Tau player exploited to good effect. Try out some big guns (doomsday ark would gel well with your solar pulse and writhing worldscape) or proxy in some Nightscythes to replace the Annihilation barges (similar guns, more speed and you can put things inside it, more fragile mind).
Also how did the Gauss cannons on the Annihilation barges work out?
Also also did the Lychguard manage to do anything?
This could work nicely if you're using an footlord with Phaeron rather than a barge lord, lets your deepstrike and still shoot 24", which may not be worth it as you would still be in pie-plate formation (you're usually better off deep striking and then running, just to not be template fodder). Solar Pulse can help to keep the heat off, or bring something fast to present too many targets.
I wouldn't say writhing worldscape did nothing if the Tau would be in that terrain in normal conditions, but as they're Tau I don't suppose they need to actually move into the terrain to get cover. Might have helped out on an objectives mission mind.
At least you made use of their preferred enemy rule! Assaulting Tau is still a good idea, especially if the dice desert you in shooting.
Mission complete.
You'll be suprised how many people flat-out refuses to chance that 1/6 loss. Horde/multiwound infantry less so, but when every non-skimmer vehicle has 1/3 chance of immobolising itself on a piece of terrain, it's freaking usful.
2 Monoliths and a Doomsday Ark.
Monolith to provide screening and pie plate, also gives you the ability to bounce units between its portals. I would probably reserve one and deploy the other just to give yourself the flexibility. For example, use scarabs to force enemy into an evasive manoeuver and then drop a monolith near them and teleport the scarabs across. It's also great for teleporting scoring unit onto objectives, teleporting units when they're in risk of being assaulted or rescue any models who lost their transport. AV14 is nothing to scoff at and 2 of them provides redundancy.
Doomsday ark is to prevent people from camping on objectives and gives people something they must deal with. Deploy second, put them into a vantage point and use nightfight to protect it from first-turn shooting. I'll also put it away from the main force so that if people are to use things like meltapod/termicide, those units, after (maybe) dealing with the ark will be effectively out for the rest of the game.
If they ignore the ark, great, I have a S9AP1 pie plate to drop on your army every turn and if they don't, that alleviates pressure on the rest of your army as they close in on that 24" killzone.
Gauss wins hands down? I just dont see it.
Tesla is far more effective for anti infantry than gauss on immortals, over the course of a game it is reasonable to expect more shots from tesla.
Gauss is more effective against tanks, but Immortals are a bad AV unit with either gun and this will only ever be a seondary use for the unit.
So in taking Gauss over Tesla you get a more multi-purpose unit that is worse at its primary role.
I have only tested immortals in one game so far and i used Tesla, had I used gauss it would probably have cost me that particular game as the ability to move and shoot was essential.
However, if you are adding a Phaeron, Veiling or meching up the Gauss Immortals will start to bring more to the table.
So your basic assumption for Tesla is on I agree with: If you aren't meching up, it's better.
But why the hell aren't you meching up? The benefits are tremendous. The downside to not meching up are pretty bad. If its a problem of cost, that has 0 bearing on tactics. That's a personal limitation, not a game limitation.
The limitations of the game say meching up is better in 5th, and you agree gauss is better when meched up.
So gauss is better.
~dy
This is what I'm planning on using for my heavy slots as well
People not having the ability to afford non existent models will effect the tactics of their army at the present time though, I imagine we will see more mech when the model actually comes out, I think there was a rumour stating the scythe might have a model come january.
Until then a lot of people will be running less mechanised lists. It makes total sense for people to talk about the armies they are actually playing with.
I am assuming you are talking about cash cost for the models...
Meching up in current rules is a very powerful tactic if you have cheap, numerous transports (rhino, chimera, trukk, DE stuff)
Necrons do not have cheap transports, so its far from a no-brainer for us...
Mark.
Right now I'm thinking 3 Spyders, 1-2 Monoliths, and perhaps a Doomsday Ark. The reasoning is:
3 Spyders. 50 point MCs that generate Scarabs, can repair my vehicles, and provide
The Monolith - while not a great value - goes well with 2-4 Night Scythes. I could be persuaded to try 2 instead of a Doomsday Ark since it has similar firepower though not the range, a permanent AV14, and provides mobility for the army.
IMO, the Doomsday Ark is overpriced but a S9 AP1 large template is very appealing.
While I like mech and 5th does reward for it it's not cheap numerous transports that do it. Meching is powerful because it takes splits the pressure your support tanks would get, provides mobility, provides firepower, and is usually less expensive then bulking up to protect against anti-infantry fire.
Spamming Ork trukks isn't nearly as effective as using Battlewagons in conjunction with a couple of trukks. DE Raider spam hemorrhages kill points and doesn't provide much protection for the guys instead. DE are better off using a few Raiders and throwing down a webway portal to bring in assault troopers.
SM & IG have strong mech strategies. Rhinos are cheap and make great bunkers while Razorbacks essentially double your firepower. Chimeras have amazing front armor, good firepower, and make an amazing bunker since 5(!!!) models can fire special weapons out.
Mech Eldar is one of the strongest Eldar list. It works too because their transports have good firepower and are fairly tough.
Looking at the Necron transports:
Ghost Ark: I'm undecided on this one. It wouldn't work well to spam since it's very lacking in offensive weaponry. You can't defense your enemy to death.
Night Scythe: AV11 - Rhino/Razorback durability - excellent firepower, amazing transport capacity. A BA Razorback (Fast, AV11) with a a decent weapon (TL Assault Cannon or Lascannon, for example) costs 90 and these are Skimmers with an arguably better weapon and an amazing transport capacity. I can definitely see using multiples of these.
Monolith: Sort of a transport. These bad boys add mobility and combine well with Night Scythes. They took a brutal beating in durability (let's hope 6e nerfs meltas!) and really don't stack up well against their AV14 peer transports (yeah, I'm looking at a LR that can move 12", allow it's unit to assault out of, and still fire 1 of it's 3-4 heavy weapons even while shaken). However, Monoliths look cool and are what we get to work with...
`Gauss is better in mech therefore Gauss is better` is a terrible illogical leap.
Meching up immortals is not currently an option. Im also not sure about the viability of mech Immotals even when it is possible because;
Im not sure about night sythes to begin with
if you just want to spam transports with min squads warriors are cheaper.
if you want to put bigger, damage dealing units in your transports warriors do the same damage per point vs infantry and more damage per point vs tanks and you can get more points of warriors in the scythe in the first place.
Tesla Immortals at least can be said to outperform the other troops when doing what they do best (walking around and shooting).
Last edited by USER1; 16-11-2011 at 14:42.
First off, troops are mostly objective holders. You can't win 2/3rd the games without them. That's arguably their most important function.
Second, Telsas put out a fair amount of move and shoot firepower for Necrons but they lose against IG, DE, and even Shootas in a firefight.
My tactical use of Immortals will be to either focus fire with multiple units to destroy a single threat or to move and engage to exploit our better profile.
2 quick questions. Are 2 barge lords viable at smaller point games, and how does the new dex handle nob bikers?
A clever way is to death mark them and shoot them with the cryptek with the s8 vs Ld AP1 template. Ignore their turbo cover and armor save, auto hit, wound on 2+. Still only hurting half the squad, so do it again with another cryptek.
Alternatively, wraith always work. Or you could use a lord court with scarabs.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote