Tactica: 5th edition Necrons codex.

[Sekhmet]

new question, what is the new codex's deathstar?

There's two potentials.

This isn't point efficient at all, but it's pretty good at beating other deathstars.
5 lords with 2+/3++, warscythes, mindshackle scarabs, a cryptek with chronometron, and a character or two (or three with zahndrekh), then stealing a warrior's ghost ark.

Also 6 wraith with particle casters and whip coils and 0-2 destroyer lords with 2+ and mindshackle scarabs. This is much more point efficient, but has a lower top potential.

Let me explain, death cult assassins are the most point efficient close combat unit in the game. However, their top potential is much lower than a unit of paladins, death company, and many other units, because of how many you can take per squad.

The lord shackle court has a much higher potential than wraith, but you'll pay a hefty premium for it.

[Chapters Unwritten]

I would say the wraithbomb is looking like the big money. Two of those destroyer lords alone in a tag team could be pretty unpleasant after they make it to your lines, too. The destroyer lords, for what they are, are very cheap.

Here's a good question: how viable is this army on foot? I'm really into the idea of a shambling legion of guys for my new planned Necron army, and while I'm not unwilling to use the vehicles (honestly they all seem great to me), I am just curious if I can avoid the 5th ed plague of needing to transport every single unit I take somehow.

[Starwolf]

I think non-vehicle is fairly viable. The main reason is that our transports are so expensive compared to other armies out there, and we can't afford to mech and include too much else in our army. Plus our monoliths double as mobile terrain (and tank busters, and ani-infantry, etc...) and transports.

But maybe that's just me being optimistic

[1+1_2x2_3^3]

I think foot lists can be competitive Reecius scarab list seems to fair well it only has one vehicles. A foot list that includes 2Phaeron Lords making a squad of 20 warriors relentless, telsa immortals, mindshackles and orbs lords, scarabs, and tomb spyders will be a hard army to beat.

[Kelanen]

I think non-vehicle is fairly viable. The main reason is that our transports are so expensive compared to other armies out there, and we can't afford to mech and include too much else in our army.

Compared to say Tau or Eldar?

They mostly need to mech expensively, or do without, and either way it holds the army to the lower tiers...

6th may change everything but currently if you can't mech cheaply you aren't going anywhere fast. DoA angels is the only exception on the scene.

[TheDoctor]

Well, in a pure foot list you usually don't need to go anywhere fast.

I'm thinking foot necrons can do like foot deathwing, and just have a 6" march of doom to where they need to go.

Add to that the necrons can teleport while on the table, and you have the potential for a very maneuverable foot list.

[itcamefromthedeep]

Compare 10 Lychguard with shields at 450 pts to 12 Death Cult Assassins at 180 pts. The DCAs will win that combat.

In contrast, 6 Wraith with whip coils at around 250 pts will beat 12 DCAs at 180 pts into the ground. If the Wraith get the charge, they'll take maybe one casualty, but more likely no casualties. If they receive the charge (perhaps from a stormraven), they'll still win against DCAs, it'll just take a little longer and they'll take 1-2 casualties with a wound or two spread around.

Lychguard are at best, mediocre. They're a combat unit that can't move fast and can't beat another (albeit very very good) combat unit at less than half their cost.

Matchups do matter. For instance:

Compare 12 Death Cult Assassins at 180 pts to a Killa Kan at ~50pts. The Kan will win that combat.

In contrast, 5 Lychguard and a Lord with a warscythe and res orb at around 300 pts will beat several Kans into the ground.

DCAs are at best, mediocre. They're a combat unit that can't move fast and can't beat another (albeit very very good) combat unit at less than half their cost.

---

Now in your comparison if you drop a pair of Lychguard and add a Lord with res orb the unit gets much better, even to the point where it can beat those DCAs perhaps half the time (so say the dice I've been rolling it out with). Incidentally, Lychguard don't disintigrate in bolter fire the way DCAs do, or like DCAs do when their transport goes all 'splodey.

The problem with Lychguard remains one of the delivery system. At best, I think, you're looking at a turbo-boosting Night Scythe so that next turn it can drop off the Lychguard and let them charge anything that remained within ~15" of the night Scythe's base.

[GodlessM]

Well, in a pure foot list you usually don't need to go anywhere fast.

I'm thinking foot necrons can do like foot deathwing, and just have a 6" march of doom to where they need to go.

Add to that the necrons can teleport while on the table, and you have the potential for a very maneuverable foot list.

Foot or mech, you always need to be able to go somewhere fast. 2/3 of the missions demand it for a start, and then there's the tactical benefits.

You are comparing Necrons to Deathwing; how do you come up with something like that? not only do Deathwing have tonnes of 3++ saves to survive in the fiedl should their 2+ not be enough, they don't walk a '6" march of doom' as you have stated, they Deep Strike in mostly due to their special rules.

As for Teleporting around, that forces you to take Veil of Darkness and/or a Monolith which restricts your list, not to mention that VoD'ing uses Deep Strike so isn't very reliable by any stretch of the imagination.

[Sekhmet]

Matchups do matter. For instance:

Compare 12 Death Cult Assassins at 180 pts to a Killa Kan at ~50pts. The Kan will win that combat.

In contrast, 5 Lychguard and a Lord with a warscythe and res orb at around 300 pts will beat several Kans into the ground.

DCAs are at best, mediocre. They're a combat unit that can't move fast and can't beat another (albeit very very good) combat unit at less than half their cost.

Yes, units without 2d6 armor penetration have trouble against walkers. So do wraith, needing 6s to do any damage against most walkers.

But wraith and DCAs are far better than Lychguard.

And I know you're just copy-pasting and editing my response to suit your needs, but at least make sure it's accurate. DCAs have access to stormravens, giving them VERY good mobility.

Now in your comparison if you drop a pair of Lychguard and add a Lord with res orb the unit gets much better, even to the point where it can beat those DCAs perhaps half the time (so say the dice I've been rolling it out with). Incidentally, Lychguard don't disintigrate in bolter fire the way DCAs do, or like DCAs do when their transport goes all 'splodey.

So add a lord for another 65-75 pts? I guess you could do that, make them even more of a point sink.

The problem with Lychguard remains one of the delivery system. At best, I think, you're looking at a turbo-boosting Night Scythe so that next turn it can drop off the Lychguard and let them charge anything that remained within ~15" of the night Scythe's base.

The problem is a night scythe has the durability of a rhino with smoke. When they kill that single av11 vehicle, suddenly your 500 pt deathstar has to walk on the table.

[Starwolf]

Foot or mech, you always need to be able to go somewhere fast. 2/3 of the missions demand it for a start, and then there's the tactical benefits.

You are comparing Necrons to Deathwing; how do you come up with something like that? not only do Deathwing have tonnes of 3++ saves to survive in the fiedl should their 2+ not be enough, they don't walk a '6" march of doom' as you have stated, they Deep Strike in mostly due to their special rules.

As for Teleporting around, that forces you to take Veil of Darkness and/or a Monolith which restricts your list, not to mention that VoD'ing uses Deep Strike so isn't very reliable by any stretch of the imagination.

Well, yes, if you don't want to go mech, you will likely go Veil/Monolith to add mobility, if mobility is a priority for you. I wouldn't say it restricts a list, but rather is simply a non-mech army build.

Rules question: If our ghost arc gets shaken/stunned, can our guys still shoot out of it? Would we have to disembark our crypteks in order to shoot our AT battery?

[TheDoctor]

Foot or mech, you always need to be able to go somewhere fast. 2/3 of the missions demand it for a start, and then there's the tactical benefits.

You are comparing Necrons to Deathwing; how do you come up with something like that? not only do Deathwing have tonnes of 3++ saves to survive in the fiedl should their 2+ not be enough, they don't walk a '6" march of doom' as you have stated, they Deep Strike in mostly due to their special rules.

As for Teleporting around, that forces you to take Veil of Darkness and/or a Monolith which restricts your list, not to mention that VoD'ing uses Deep Strike so isn't very reliable by any stretch of the imagination.

...I walk a 6" march of doom with the majority of my squads, while only 1 or 3 squads deep strike.
I also go for shooting/balanced deathwing squads, though that is personal playstyle

However, as this is the necrons tactica, I shall not go into detail here, and there is the deathwing tactica is on this forum.

Now, I only compared them to the deathwing, because a 4+ armor/cover, followed by a 4+ reanimation protocol isn't that much worse than a straight 2+ armor save (75% as compared to an ?86%?), and is flat better than just the 3++. Yes, taking a fully kitted out necron phalanx is like 100-150 points more than a deathwing squad, but you get 16 extra bodies out of that. There are pros and cons to both, but that is most likely a debate for another thread.

I also find it odd that you mention that the deathwing teleport in, as if that is an excellent thing. Then later in your post you say that VoD Crypteks are not that reliable. I'm slightly confused as to why you think it is awesome for a deathwing list, but not that good for a necron list?

And why do 2/3 of the missions require you to go fast? The whole point of a footslogging list is to pick where you want to go, get there, and then play king of the hill. Though, as an Eldar player, I DO love the tactical benefits of moving fast.

[Infidel]

Matchups do matter. For instance:

Compare 12 Death Cult Assassins at 180 pts to a Killa Kan at ~50pts. The Kan will win that combat.

Ahem, Might of Titan/Hammerhand?

DCAs are at best, mediocre. They're a combat unit that can't move fast and can't beat another (albeit very very good) combat unit at less than half their cost.

DCA with the right characters attached (say, a Librarian?) will stomp just about every CC unit and can be carried inside a Land Raider. They are neither slow or "not able to beat another unit at half their cost".

To be fair, Librarian with DCA/Crusader in a landraider clocks you 550 odd points, but they will thoroughly stomp anything it charges, even equal points of Draigo Paladin. Against wraiths, it's but a matter of casting Warp Rift before they charge into combat. Oh, and they'll be scoring. Either through Grand Strategy or Corteaz.

Also, thanks to the assault transport, don't even think about shooting them until you can bust them out of the AV14 with 3+ cover save (shrouding) until they get to where they need to be.

[DJ3]

Rules question: If our ghost arc gets shaken/stunned, can our guys still shoot out of it? Would we have to disembark our crypteks in order to shoot our AT battery?

They'd have to disembark. But Living Metal drastically diminishes the odds of this happening.

[azwethinkweizm]

Played my second Necron game yesterday. First game was a draw against a Lysander drop pod army. Yesterday I lost to a fairly mobile Nid army. We're playing sub 1k points games.
His army was a tervigon, lots of termagants, a hive tyrant with twin-linked devourers, 20 gargoyles, a few ripper bases, 3 zoanthropes.
I played Zahndrek in a squad with 2 eldrich lance crypteks, a chrono cryptek, and a veil cryptek. 2 squads of 7 tesla immortals led by a lord with res orb each. 4 scarab bases. An annihilation barge.

At the end of the game he held one objective and contested mine. I found that his army was mobile enough to give me maybe two turns of shooting, which wasn't enough. He tied up my squads with cheap units to stop them shooting.

Any suggestions for a good counter to a Nid list like this? Like I say this was only my second Necron game, but I found that Zahndrek's force multiplying abilities kind of limited against nids. My opponent didn't take any units with USRs I could take away, and of the USRs I could give to my units only counter-attack was useful really.
Help!

[Mandragola]

Foot lists can get mobility through teleportation. Trouble is, that's useful for shooting, not assault. If you blip around the place a lot with veils then transports are less needed. Obviously, actual movement is only one of the benefits provided by transports, and arguably less important than the protection that they provide. Still, I've been looking at a 1750 point foot list which I think might work. Here it is:

Zahndrekh and Obyron. 345. Not particularly sure about these guys to be honest, but they seem decent. It's more than I'd normally spend on HQ but they do give nice army-wide buffs.

Lord with Warscythe, Mindshackle scarabs and res orb.
3 Crypteks: Despair with Veil, Destrution with Solar pulse, Transmogrification with just staff.

3x10 Tesla Immortals. 510.

15 Warriors. 195

3 Wraiths. 105

3 Heavy Destroyers. 180

3 Heavy Destroyers. 180

So the plan would be to have the 2 HQs together most of the time, probably with the lord as well. Not sure whether they would be better with the warriors or some immortals. The veil Cryptex probably works well with warriors.

I'm not sure if this is really a greatlist. The trouble is, I think the necron vehicles mostly seem pretty pricey for what they do. I do like the monolith and the command barge with a warscythe in it, but the doomsday ark seems like a fairly poor AT option for its price and the annihilation barge is slow, short-ranged and AP-, and only a bit more shooty than the same points spent on immortals. The planes both have to take their armour 12 hulls near to the enemy, without even a cover save in the case of the doom scythe.

Ghost Arks are really interesting though, and I'd have to see them working to make a judgement on them. They offer good protection, increased firepower and an open-topped assault platform as well. You do lose out in firepower early on, unless you can sit still at 24", and they certainly aren't cheap either in points or real world currency. I can see these working though, and in my list I suppose Zahn and Oby do want to be in Arks.

[Infidel]

Played my second Necron game yesterday. First game was a draw against a Lysander drop pod army. Yesterday I lost to a fairly mobile Nid army. We're playing sub 1k points games.
His army was a tervigon, lots of termagants, a hive tyrant with twin-linked devourers, 20 gargoyles, a few ripper bases, 3 zoanthropes.
I played Zahndrek in a squad with 2 eldrich lance crypteks, a chrono cryptek, and a veil cryptek. 2 squads of 7 tesla immortals led by a lord with res orb each. 4 scarab bases. An annihilation barge.

At the end of the game he held one objective and contested mine. I found that his army was mobile enough to give me maybe two turns of shooting, which wasn't enough. He tied up my squads with cheap units to stop them shooting.

Any suggestions for a good counter to a Nid list like this? Like I say this was only my second Necron game, but I found that Zahndrek's force multiplying abilities kind of limited against nids. My opponent didn't take any units with USRs I could take away, and of the USRs I could give to my units only counter-attack was useful really.
Help!

You will end up with bad match-ups such as nids, but you can use his ability to take away swarm's stealth.

A mobile Nid army that doesn't rely on vehicles for speed is a tough list for footcron to crack and I think you'll probably need some teleportation shennaigan to get around it.

[GodlessM]

I also find it odd that you mention that the deathwing teleport in, as if that is an excellent thing. Then later in your post you say that VoD Crypteks are not that reliable. I'm slightly confused as to why you think it is awesome for a deathwing list, but not that good for a necron list?

Read the whole post and not just the bits that suit you. Deathwing unlike Necrons have a means of making their Deep Strike more accurate.

And why do 2/3 of the missions require you to go fast? The whole point of a footslogging list is to pick where you want to go, get there, and then play king of the hill.

That would be all fine and dandy if it worked like that but it doesn't, namely because of one huge factor, we call them the opponent. It you have to reach an objective 24"+ away, then that unit has to sustain 3-4+ turns of fire from the enemy and then what little is left, if there's any left, has to stay there. And that's assuming they don't have to clear the enemy off the spot in the first place. It's not always enough to contest.

[bebe]

There are ways to play a foot list. At 1500 we can use a few tricks.

1 Nemesor Zahndrekh 185

3 Crypteks, Eldritch Lance 105
1 Crypteks, Eldritch Lance, Solar Pulse 55

5 Deathmarks 95
5 Deathmarks 95
5 Deathmarks 95

5 Immortals, Tesla Carbines 85
5 Immortals, Tesla Carbines 85
5 Immortals, Tesla Carbines 85

10 Warriors 130

3 Scarabs 45
3 Scarabs 45
3 Scarabs 45

3 Spyders, Particle Beamer 175
3 Spyders, Particle Beamer 175

Underestimating what the scarabs can do in a list like this can be dangerous for your opponents. A wall of six MCs is also quite a good barrier. Deathmarks can drop in and create some havoc and damage as well. I've said this before. We need to stop and try and analyze what Necrons can do, not what they cannot do. Nemesor, spyders and scarabs are all very good at their cost and easily fit into a 1500 point list. We also don't always have to go with 30 scarbs. Nine swarms with six spyders creating more each turn can even handle landraiders and they are FAST. Immortals can move and fire increasing their potential range. Warriors can sit on an objective. Going to ground and RP should make them pretty tough to remove. Is this the best list for footslogging? No. Tere are potential lists with Wraiths and Praetorians and the big N too. But in a foot list i would go big MCs first. Wish I coulkd fit a C'Tan in too in, lol. But they just cost about 50 points too much for what they bring. I'll do better with deathmarks.

[Infidel]

I can understand breaking up the Deathmarks into small squads to benefit from the 2+ mark rule, but what's the point of breaking up scarabs into squads of 3 and immortal into squads of 5?

Obviously you're putting the Crypteks into the immortal, but they're geared to fight fundamentally different units - tesla is anti-infantry while the Lance is anti-tank or anti-terminator. You'd much better off dropping the warrior since there is zero synergy with them and making it a proper lance/chrono court and consolidate your immortals and scarabs into larger squads.

As it stands right now, you're wasting your crypteks when you're shooting at light infantry, and when you're shooting tanks you're completely wasting your tesla, at least gauss blasters has a chance to do something to mech. Also, small scarab squads = easy kill point and small immortal squads means you're much more likley to be shot off the board in one go and not get the benefit of RP.

[itcamefromthedeep]

And I know you're just copy-pasting and editing my response to suit your needs, but at least make sure it's accurate. DCAs have access to stormravens, giving them VERY good mobility.

So add a lord for another 65-75 pts? I guess you could do that, make them even more of a point sink.

DCAs aren't mobile. Their delivery system is mobile. There's a difference. Wraiths are mobile. Scarabs are mobile. Destroyers are mobile. Warriors are not.

I did mention that I dropped two Lychguard for the Lord. That model is a great buy for Lychguard because he increases their durability and allows the unit to better fight vehicles in close combat.

The problem is a night scythe has the durability of a rhino with smoke. When they kill that single av11 vehicle, suddenly your 500 pt deathstar has to walk on the table.

... which is why I said that the delivery system was a problem.

Ahem, Might of Titan/Hammerhand?

...wasn't mentioned. There's probably a good reason for that, namely that I've never seen or heard of a Librarian hanging out with DCAs.

To be fair, Librarian with DCA/Crusader in a landraider clocks you 550 odd points, but they will thoroughly stomp anything it charges, even equal points of Draigo Paladin. Against wraiths, it's but a matter of casting Warp Rift before they charge into combat. Oh, and they'll be scoring. Either through Grand Strategy or Corteaz.

Coteaz doesn't have an "r" in his name. Incidentally, I've also never heard of a Librarian bringing Warp Rift.

DCAs with a librarian don't thoroughly stomp *quite* everything on the charge. If they charge a brood of 20 Genestealers then both units will probably explode. The Genestealers are cheaper, too. There are a number of more problematic units out there, like a fat brood of Tyranid Warriors with lash whips or some with psych grenades. No, I've never heard of anyone taking Quicksilver under any circumstances, let alone with DCAs. It's a good unit, but there are reasons I've never actually seen people field it.