Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 121

Thread: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

  1. #1
    Chapter Master shadowhawk2008's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Battle-barge Spear of Lycaeus of the Sons of Corax 2nd Company
    Posts
    3,529

    Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    Cross-posting this from the Bolthole where I asked a friend some questions about the book. This one's for you SOS.


    - Corax's name. Any insights from the primarch himself about his name?
    - What kind of battles do the Raven Guard and the Alpha Legion fight?
    - Is it explained how the traitors infiltrated the Raven Guard?
    - How does the Cabal figure in all of this?
    - How much is Deliverance/Kiavahr explained?
    - Any details about the Ravenspire?
    - How exactly is the legion restructured after Istvaan?
    - What does the Emperor tell the Nineteenth Primarch?

    Corax's name of Corvus was the name given to him by the people who found him on Lycaeus. Its just a name. Corax however means Saviour in their tongue as we already know, and as Corax's Rebellion progressed more and more of his followers started calling him by that name over Corvus. Though those who are very close to Corax sometimes call him Corvus.

    The Legions fight the battles they are best at. The Raven Guard fight with their lightning strikes against the Word Bearers on Cruciax, a small listening outpost, and against the Emperor's Children in The Perfect Fortress. The Alpha Legion fight as we expect them to, with misdirection, feint attacks and manipulating others into fighting for them. The Alpha Legion's allies in The Order of the Dragon and the Kivahr Guilds lose this battle, but the Alpha Legion win. As do the Raven Guard in a different way.

    The Alpha Legion infiltrated the Raven Guard by use of extremely advanced surgery. They gathered the bodies of dead Raven Guard and surgically removed their faces and grafted them onto Alpha Legionaries that were chosen for the task. The Apothecaries remodelled the entire body of the operatives to make sure they could not be revealed as Alpha Legion. Then the Librarians, which apparently Alpharius and Omegon kept in operation despite Nikea, removed all of their memories apart from the fact that they are Alpha Legion and on a mission for the Primarch. They don't remember their names, what they look like or their whole past. The Raven Guard's memories were extracted and put into them so they can pass for them. A full Librarian scan would have easily caught them but the Raven Guard dismantled its Librarius in accordance with Nikea.

    The Cabal's envoy is Athithirtir, who is described by Alpharius as a shrivelled hand with seven fingers and no thumb floating in a glass orb filled with yellow translucent gas. It speaks through a vox and throughout the novel is trying to bring Alpharius directly under the Cabal's control. It ends a bit badly for him, he isn't dead but we definitely won't be seeing him again.

    Flashbacks show Deliverance/Lycaeus and Kivahr quite a lot. Deliverance itself is deceptive in appearance, Corax ordered that no damage be repaired as a tribute to those who died to bring freedom. Of course safety measures are taken but the entire planet looks quite broken, but its still deadly. Kivahr is typical of a quasi-Forge World, its filled with broken cities, polluted atmosphere and many mutants. The Ravendelve, a base where most of the action takes place, is located in the middle of a dead city that used to belong to the Guilders.

    The Ravenspire doesn't make a huge appearance but we get some background on it. It used to be a prison complex and is where Corax was raised initally. It contains something called a Red Level that nobody from Deliverance ever speaks about, apparantely its where they did the worst tortures on prisoners. Corax even refuses to send a captive Word Bearer Chaplain in there, its that bad.

    The Legion is restructured into four batallions bearing the name Hawks, Talons, Falcons and Raptors. The Talons are the battle-brothers of the Legion, the tactical squads. The Raptors are the recruits of the Legion and the new marines created in the novel, you'll see a good deal of them. The Hawks are the Dreadnoughts and Assault marines. And the Falcons are the bike squads, land speeders and aircraft crews.

    The Emperor tells him a lot. Firstly he FINALLY! explains Chaos to him, Corax buys it straight up and understands it quickly. Now why couldn't he have bloody well told Horus the same thing?! He then tells him about the Primarch project and gives permission for Corax to use the original source material that was used to create the Primarchs to create a new generation of Astartes. He also hints that the Two Missing Primarchs were found and lost before Corax was discovered.
    Corax was found under a glacier on Lycaeus. An overseer found him as well and attempted to grab him, but a little girl named Nasturi Ephrenia interfered and he hit her. Corax repaid him by tearing his head off, at the physical age of four or five years old. After that they knew he was special so they looked after him, moving him from prison block to prison block and keeping him a secret. Which was made easier when Corax learned of his special power.
    The Cabal are definitely anti-Chaos.
    Do I want this novel? Yes.
    Will I be willing to sell my soul for this novel? Yes.
    My 40k/Writing/Review blog - Sons of Corax Full list of my novel, comics, and audio drama reviews - Reviews. Currently running a reading Poll on my blog and @ 500 votes I'll do a giveaway.

    My current fiction projects - Dharmayoddha, an Indian-mythology inspired urban fantasy set in Mumbai, India; Hammer of Shadows - a Euro-medieval epic fantasy with knights, gladiators and ancient relics; Cloak of Secrecy - a Norse-mythology inspired space opera.

  2. #2
    Black Phantom Wyrmwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    By the Bonfire
    Posts
    1,746

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    It sounds brilliant, thanks for this SH. I will certainly be getting this upon release.
    I am currently looking to shift a sizeable amount of Chaos Space Marine models, including Dark Vengeance Cultists/Chosen/Helbrute/Lord, Fantasy Chaos Knights, a Dark Apostle, Fantasy (Finecast) Chaos Lord, Warp Talons, Possessed and painted models with Forge World parts. Send me a message if you're interested!

  3. #3
    Chapter Master Son of Sanguinius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Chatsworth, California
    Posts
    2,919

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    Many thanks, shadowhawk. That sounds fascinating. I do hope the engagements between the Alpha Legion and Raven Guard are handled well. They are the two Space Marines Legions that actually act like special forces operatives.

    Any chance your friend could elaborate in the Cabal's role in the novel and whether or not Corax confronts them? Same question regarding the Emperor's explanation of Chaos.
    The Arena of Death, where I write the duel you imagine.

    The Coming Apocalyse, my blog for 40k and FB rules development.

  4. #4
    Chapter Master shadowhawk2008's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Battle-barge Spear of Lycaeus of the Sons of Corax 2nd Company
    Posts
    3,529

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    I've asked him. He also mentioned in his review on The Founding Fields that the battles were very typical of the doctrines of the two legions, so yeah.
    My 40k/Writing/Review blog - Sons of Corax Full list of my novel, comics, and audio drama reviews - Reviews. Currently running a reading Poll on my blog and @ 500 votes I'll do a giveaway.

    My current fiction projects - Dharmayoddha, an Indian-mythology inspired urban fantasy set in Mumbai, India; Hammer of Shadows - a Euro-medieval epic fantasy with knights, gladiators and ancient relics; Cloak of Secrecy - a Norse-mythology inspired space opera.

  5. #5
    Chapter Master shadowhawk2008's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Battle-barge Spear of Lycaeus of the Sons of Corax 2nd Company
    Posts
    3,529

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    - What is the new relation between the Cabal and the Alpha Legion?
    - What does the Cabal want with the Raven Guard?
    - How much do we get to see of Corax's attempts to co-engineer new gene-seed/astartes?
    - What is Corax's emotional state?
    - Is there a mention of him forging the lightning claws used by Kayvaan Shrike?
    - Has the legion changed its ranks? The First Captain (or equivalent) now being called the Master of Shadows and its Captain being called the Shadow-Captains?


    The Alpha Legion tolerate the Cabal, but they are going to fight this war their way. They'll do what the Cabal want, but they won't be their lapdogs. However even that tolerance ends when in the epilogue Omegon finally loses his patience with Athithirtir and ejects him into space saying "(About his ship)I am sure it will be here, maybe in a century or two."

    Nothing. The Cabal don't care about the Raven Guard. The Source Material though, that they care about. They want Horus to have it so he'll get his quick victory and [enter long plan here]... eventually Chaos dies.

    The whole plot of the book is Corax and the engineering of new Astartes. The Raptors, the next generation of Astartes. But superior to even Astartes with more of the Primarchs built into them. The book demonstrates that a Raptor can easily best an Astartes in close combat. They aren't invincible but they are much better.

    Mainly he is focused on rebuilding the Legion and extracting a harsh toll on Horus and his traitors for Istvaan. He gets more and more focused on it until near the end when Commander Branne is able to convince him that the project isn't worth losing everything. After that he regains his normal good cheer and easy-going nature.

    He has them already. One was apparently damaged on Istvaan but he uses them himself in battle along with his power whip.

    Those ranks do not exist in the novel. There are Commanders of each division like Branne and Agapito, then Sergeants and then regular marines.
    My 40k/Writing/Review blog - Sons of Corax Full list of my novel, comics, and audio drama reviews - Reviews. Currently running a reading Poll on my blog and @ 500 votes I'll do a giveaway.

    My current fiction projects - Dharmayoddha, an Indian-mythology inspired urban fantasy set in Mumbai, India; Hammer of Shadows - a Euro-medieval epic fantasy with knights, gladiators and ancient relics; Cloak of Secrecy - a Norse-mythology inspired space opera.

  6. #6
    Chapter Master Son of Sanguinius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Chatsworth, California
    Posts
    2,919

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    So it seems the Raptors are going to become the Weregeld. Interesting.

    Last question: Any explanation for the title? With Propsero Burns I don't entirely expect them all to make any sense, but I haven't seen anything that would sync with the title.
    The Arena of Death, where I write the duel you imagine.

    The Coming Apocalyse, my blog for 40k and FB rules development.

  7. #7
    Chapter Master shadowhawk2008's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Battle-barge Spear of Lycaeus of the Sons of Corax 2nd Company
    Posts
    3,529

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    - How does the title fit in with the plot of the novel?
    - Do the Cabal and the Raven Guard interact at all?
    - What does the Emperor really tell Corax about Chaos?

    Well it kinda refers to the loss of over 75,000 legionaires on Istvaan, that's a pretty big hit for the Raven Guard. But I suppose its what happens to the Source Material and the Raptors. It would have delivered the Legion from defeat, and it turned out badly.

    No they do not. The Cabal only interact with the Alpha Legion.

    He tells Corax about the Chaos Gods, about how they hunger for human vitality and that he is working on accessing the webway to make warp travel obsolete. He also tells Corax about the incident with Magnus and the breach on Terra.
    My 40k/Writing/Review blog - Sons of Corax Full list of my novel, comics, and audio drama reviews - Reviews. Currently running a reading Poll on my blog and @ 500 votes I'll do a giveaway.

    My current fiction projects - Dharmayoddha, an Indian-mythology inspired urban fantasy set in Mumbai, India; Hammer of Shadows - a Euro-medieval epic fantasy with knights, gladiators and ancient relics; Cloak of Secrecy - a Norse-mythology inspired space opera.

  8. #8
    Chapter Master shadowhawk2008's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Battle-barge Spear of Lycaeus of the Sons of Corax 2nd Company
    Posts
    3,529

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    - Are Alpharius and Omegon definitively stated to be the runts of the primarch litter?

    When examining the Source Material Nexin Orlandriaz (A Magos Genetor) tells Corax that each sample is unique. For example Sample Six is missing a whole strand of human DNA that has been replaced by something else, he posits it is animal DNA. Sample Four is engineered for physical endurance and has lower reaction and cognitive functions. And Sample 20 is missing a whole host of growth enhancements.
    EDIT: Correction for Sample Four.

    Wait sorry I got the wording wrong. Sample Four is described as missing genes that boost the genetic structure responsible for the development of nocireceptors and proprioceptors.

    In English that means that those warriors with Sample Four don't feel pain the same way as others, it would be significantly lessened for them. They would also be a bit slower in movement than most.
    Last edited by shadowhawk2008; 06-11-2011 at 09:48.
    My 40k/Writing/Review blog - Sons of Corax Full list of my novel, comics, and audio drama reviews - Reviews. Currently running a reading Poll on my blog and @ 500 votes I'll do a giveaway.

    My current fiction projects - Dharmayoddha, an Indian-mythology inspired urban fantasy set in Mumbai, India; Hammer of Shadows - a Euro-medieval epic fantasy with knights, gladiators and ancient relics; Cloak of Secrecy - a Norse-mythology inspired space opera.

  9. #9
    Chapter Master Noserenda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Southampton UK
    Posts
    1,392

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    You have a couple of face to face meetings between Alpharius and Horus and Alpharius states Horus is the larger of the two.

    Its worth mentioning the Infiltrators ate their doubles brains and used their memory stealing organ to get hints of their cover, eg They are a Terran and the faces etc of squadmates but they dont know battle ciphers and a number off Colloquialisms of the Raven Guard which they have to learn in a hurry.

    I suspect if even the possibility of Infiltration had occurred to the Raven Guard they could have caught the Alpha Legion but it was an inconceivable move! odd behaviour was just written off or given the benefit of the doubt for just long enough... Although at the end they do root out any remaining infiltrators.

    And the Raptors are the weregeld, Weregeld is the Space Wolf name for them, not one the Raven guard ever used. Although they dont start out as crazy mutants... The Raptors all wear Mk6 Power Armour, the first Legionaries to do so after Dorn sent the first production run to Deliverance to support the Ravens.

    I loved the Book as an Alpha Legion fan and for similar reasons ive always had a soft spot for the Ravens too. Both sides come across very well and can certainly be said to come out winners

    The Alpha Legion insights are particularly interesting, I dont agree with all the detail necessarily as I preferred their actual Opinions and Beliefs to be shrouded in mystery, Legion showed you them acting but never why which is perfect for them imho.
    Pre Heresy Alpha Legion
    Now Regularly updating!
    Nietzsche is dead.
    -God

  10. #10
    Brother Sergeant Saul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Suebia
    Posts
    67

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    So we know now that each primach was build for a certain purpose and the emperor guided them all to planets that helped them to develop their strenghts and powers.

  11. #11
    Chapter Master shadowhawk2008's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Battle-barge Spear of Lycaeus of the Sons of Corax 2nd Company
    Posts
    3,529

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    Umm no we don't know that. We don't know if the Primarch Diaspora was really a part of his plan or not. I like to believe it wasn't because it seriously hampered his plans. And why would he let the Primarchs grow up on worlds outside of his influence?

    The Night Haunter and Angron certainly did not come out right. Angron was also the only one to have spent his entire life as a mutilated slave before the Emperor found him. If any Primarch needed a shrink, it was Angron.
    My 40k/Writing/Review blog - Sons of Corax Full list of my novel, comics, and audio drama reviews - Reviews. Currently running a reading Poll on my blog and @ 500 votes I'll do a giveaway.

    My current fiction projects - Dharmayoddha, an Indian-mythology inspired urban fantasy set in Mumbai, India; Hammer of Shadows - a Euro-medieval epic fantasy with knights, gladiators and ancient relics; Cloak of Secrecy - a Norse-mythology inspired space opera.

  12. #12
    Brother Sergeant Saul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Suebia
    Posts
    67

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    You did just read a bit too much in my sentence...

    Just pointed out the obvious, that the DNA mentioned shows that the Big E did build hem with a certain purpose in mind. The Big E did guide them, I never said it worked exactly in the best possible way he intended to

  13. #13
    Chapter Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    The grim darkness of the far future
    Posts
    1,400

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    The Primarchs were uniquely designed, yes. But the Emperor didn't have anything to do with guiding them to the worlds where they grew up.

  14. #14
    Chapter Master Deus Mechanicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    1,893

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    "He also hints that the Two Missing Primarchs were found and lost before Corax was discovered."

    Whats this about?

  15. #15
    Chapter Master shadowhawk2008's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Battle-barge Spear of Lycaeus of the Sons of Corax 2nd Company
    Posts
    3,529

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mechanicus View Post
    "He also hints that the Two Missing Primarchs were found and lost before Corax was discovered."

    Whats this about?
    You would have to be more specific about the question

    It seems simple enough at a first glance. The missing primarchs were dealt with before the Emperor came to Deliverance. Which would mean that the Raven Guard are one of the later legions.
    My 40k/Writing/Review blog - Sons of Corax Full list of my novel, comics, and audio drama reviews - Reviews. Currently running a reading Poll on my blog and @ 500 votes I'll do a giveaway.

    My current fiction projects - Dharmayoddha, an Indian-mythology inspired urban fantasy set in Mumbai, India; Hammer of Shadows - a Euro-medieval epic fantasy with knights, gladiators and ancient relics; Cloak of Secrecy - a Norse-mythology inspired space opera.

  16. #16
    Brother Sergeant
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Dubovac
    Posts
    58

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    Can anyone post the exact order in which Primarchs were found. I know that there isnt anywhere stated for all of them but we know some.

  17. #17
    Chapter Master shadowhawk2008's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Battle-barge Spear of Lycaeus of the Sons of Corax 2nd Company
    Posts
    3,529

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    Horus, first. Second and Eleventh, somewhere in the middle. Corax after. Alpharius/Omegon, last. All others in between.
    My 40k/Writing/Review blog - Sons of Corax Full list of my novel, comics, and audio drama reviews - Reviews. Currently running a reading Poll on my blog and @ 500 votes I'll do a giveaway.

    My current fiction projects - Dharmayoddha, an Indian-mythology inspired urban fantasy set in Mumbai, India; Hammer of Shadows - a Euro-medieval epic fantasy with knights, gladiators and ancient relics; Cloak of Secrecy - a Norse-mythology inspired space opera.

  18. #18
    Chapter Master Son of Sanguinius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Chatsworth, California
    Posts
    2,919

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    Any more details concerning the Source Material? Are we talking Primarch templates, Legion templates, or both?
    The Arena of Death, where I write the duel you imagine.

    The Coming Apocalyse, my blog for 40k and FB rules development.

  19. #19
    Chapter Master shadowhawk2008's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Battle-barge Spear of Lycaeus of the Sons of Corax 2nd Company
    Posts
    3,529

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    They appear to be Primarch templates.
    My 40k/Writing/Review blog - Sons of Corax Full list of my novel, comics, and audio drama reviews - Reviews. Currently running a reading Poll on my blog and @ 500 votes I'll do a giveaway.

    My current fiction projects - Dharmayoddha, an Indian-mythology inspired urban fantasy set in Mumbai, India; Hammer of Shadows - a Euro-medieval epic fantasy with knights, gladiators and ancient relics; Cloak of Secrecy - a Norse-mythology inspired space opera.

  20. #20
    Chapter Master Noserenda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Southampton UK
    Posts
    1,392

    Re: Deliverance Lost [Spoilers]

    Yup its the Primarch templates, that were later also used to create the Custodes and Astartes
    Pre Heresy Alpha Legion
    Now Regularly updating!
    Nietzsche is dead.
    -God

Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •