Black Templars rumours

[EpicWarGamer]

While I agree Templars would have older suits of armour, I wouldn't go as far to state this. The whole "surviving 10,000 years" is only for Chaos Champions with their blessings from the Gods and the time-warping effects of, well, The Warp.

But their armor I am sure is preserved and passed down. I believe, correct me if I am wrong, but the technology to make a suit of terminator armor is lost - and all terminator suits must be preserved because of this... I dont think every space Marine who dies has his power armor buried with him. It would be an honour (yes with a U) to wear the armor of a fallen master.

Also, I know armor is passed down, because The Champion's armor is given to him before battle. That armor has the stench of 10000 years of fighting.

[Ba'al Starslayer]

But their armor I am sure is preserved and passed down. I believe, correct me if I am wrong, but the technology to make a suit of terminator armor is lost - and all terminator suits must be preserved because of this... I dont think every space Marine who dies has his power armor buried with him. It would be an honour (yes with a U) to wear the armor of a fallen master.

Also, I know armor is passed down, because The Champion's armor is given to him before battle. That armor has the stench of 10000 years of fighting.

I'm not disputing that. Maybe it was me just misunderstanding what you said originally, but I thought by the "Templars wearing yellow" reference that you thought there would be some Templars alive who fought in the Great Crusade/Horus Heresy.

[EpicWarGamer]

If the Templar's did change their overall armor bits to become more like the Grey Knights (whose armor in my opinion is too glorified to be that of normal space marines) and the box was only a 5 pack, I imagine a lot of Templar players being pretty peeved that their hordes (well, I own a horde of Templar's) will not look up to par of the new Templar's. A new 'upgraded' upgrade kit is something I am hoping for. That or the Sword Brethren come with some extra bits to share among my Legion.

[Voss]

If the Templar's did change their overall armor bits to become more like the Grey Knights (whose armor in my opinion is too glorified to be that of normal space marines) and the box was only a 5 pack, I imagine a lot of Templar players being pretty peeved that their hordes (well, I own a horde of Templar's) will not look up to par of the new Templar's. A new 'upgraded' upgrade kit is something I am hoping for. That or the Sword Brethren come with some extra bits to share among my Legion.

The latter is more likely, much like the Death Company kit has a slew of extra bits that can be spread out through a BA force. I'm doubting a crusader squad kit.

[EpicWarGamer]

[QUOTE=Guyver 3;5944451]

Not as big! But more bizarre! (unless you play fantasy...). That's most of what I know about it. Speculating from that - big buffing thing with a howdah ?!

Smaller than a thunder hawk and bizarre so some kind of flyer with a fantasy twist!!

Does this mean bt will get a dragon?

A flyer... I'm guessing its a skimmer-chariot. Fantasy Twist - check, Flys - check. Not big, but could look bizarre. Could look like a howdah is on top... and because its a Leadership thing, its like having an elevated leadership model in Fantasy.

All guesses...

[witchunter180]

[QUOTE=EpicWarGamer;5945494]

A flyer... I'm guessing its a skimmer-chariot. Fantasy Twist - check, Flys - check. Not big, but could look bizarre. Could look like a howdah is on top... and because its a Leadership thing, its like having an elevated leadership model in Fantasy.

All guesses...

Basically a space marine venom?

[Pa1adin111]

Ghost you really have been great to us with the rumors so far, is there any chance of some more hints?

[Guyver 3]

I wasn,t really serious about the dragon but i do think itll be some kind of mobile warshrine that the pre battle vows are taken from instead of the emporerers champion who'll be nerfed

[Ozeor]

Whats phil kelly like for writting codex's?

[Mr. Ultra]

I also hope the artwork of the new codex codex would be at last as cool as the current one. I love our book cover!

[Pyriel]

Whats phil kelly like for writting codex's?

interesting... i shall answer this.
1. Phil Kelly intro:

he is the guy that, comparatively to the rest, writes comparatively strong lists even in white dwarf(you will rarely see him lose a battle report; even for the Space Marine codex release, in his report he BUTCHERED the marines). the "beardy guy" of the magazine.

he is the guy that in the old codex, in IG release, once played 3+3+4 nid warriors(warriors had immunity to instand death before, so were teh pWnz) and raveners(same as warriors) and fexes with heavy weapons(cause fexes have always been more successful as shooty platforms) combined with genestealer spam for troops(warriors were not troops)... in the WD , lol. suffice to say, the other writer's "basic random white dwarf IG release list" was pummeled too.

2. His codexes are, for the most part, good. he is infamous for writing Eldar (it is still semi-competitive 5+ years after release; and singlehandedly BROKE 4th edition due to its power when it came out. if you think grey knights are broken due to having a steady 54% win percentage in tourneys, got news for you... "eldar flying circus "had 70%+. many ppl overreact and say the whole 5th ed was a deliberate attempt to nerf eldar and save the environment), h is also known for Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar(both quite good codices too). i THINK he wrote orks too, and i see some of his trends there.

3. he has two problems: one, he doesnt write that good fluff-he's more of a wargamer than a fluffy player, and its reflected when he writes a codex. he is "conservative" in his fluff, doesnt add too much or change much. I'd like better fluff, i dont think Phil Kelly is the one to do it.

4. second problem, he believes in "iconic units". i.e. he sees a unit, thinks that "this unit is iconic/fluffy for army X; they should ALWAYS use it". he then takes this unit, and makes rules for it that are totaly overpowered, so everybody takes it and never bothers with other FOC options.
examples: Falcon is a transport that has 3 heavy weapons, and is Fast Skimmer to boot, and forces opponent to reroll and keep lowest on the damage chart...yeah, thats so balanced.
example #2: old space wolf players liked using Grey Hunters, and Long Fangs to babysit the new guys... it became iconic. then kelly came and made both these choices no-brainers that everyone whines about. no reason to occupy their slots with ANYTHING other in the codex, there are good choices, but grey hunters/long fangs are THAT good, and more.

example #3: haemonculi exemplify dark eldar's love for pain... Kelly came. good luck finding a competitive dark eldar army that doesnt use some haemonculi to grant pain tokens. thats, like, a no-brainer option(see a trend?)

last, but not least: good thing is, evidence exists that Phil Kelly, perhaps unlike other GW authors, considers himself a wargamer designer and not a fluff/model designer, and *does* playtest good(not optimized, but at least good semi-competitive) lists when building a codex. so chances are, BT are gonna be competitive.

EDIT: I heard a rumour, on another sire's rumours thread so take this with a grain of salt, that new crusader squads are "11 points per initiate(marine), 6 points each neophyte, plus something similar to Rage USR". this sounds impossible. think, though: grey hunters(15 pts), -2 pts(no bolters, only cc), -2 pts(RAGE-like USR drawback; important for a troops choice). that IS 11 points. and scouts do have 6-pts difference in teh current codex, so a 5-pts difference sounds just right. this sounds mildly overpowered...170 points for 10 marines & 10 scouts unit. but what if Kelly thought that these squads are the iconic BT unit? he could put huge point decrease and more, he's known to do crazy stuff like that in the past.

again, this was from another site(bolter & chainsword), so i cant verify the source.

[kahohess]

3. he has two problems: one, he doesnt write that good fluff-he's more of a wargamer than a fluffy player, and its reflected when he writes a codex. he is "conservative" in his fluff, doesnt add too much or change much. I'd like better fluff, i dont think Phil Kelly is the one to do it.

Our fluff his already kinda good, i won't bother if it doesn't change that much, but, the thing is that, too me, it work well with rules too. So my hopes are that we keep that balance between fluff and rules and don't get stupid fluff add to justify crazy rules...

As for the iconic unit of the BTs... beside EC their's the LRC, remember that time when others chapters were limited to one unlike us... and we have the blessed hull upgrade for it, and i can really imagine that it will protect us against AT psy powers.

[theJ]

Whats phil kelly like for writting codex's?

He is god.

At least for 40k. I dunno about fantasy...

A few pointers:
*Errs on the side of caution: Quite the opposite of Ward, Kelly is always very careful about making changes to existing fluff and internal powerlevels. To wit, if Kelly truly is writing the BT codex, then you can expect them to look, feel and fight much the same as how they looked, felt and fought during the previous codex (or how they were intended to look, feel and fight, anyway - I doubt he'll write the templars as a range-focused 'dex...).
*Likes rule overhauls: Quite the opposite to the fluff side of things, Kelly hesitates very little about changing the actual rules of a codex - the feel will be the same, the rules will not. See codex: Dark Eldar for prime examples.
*Focus on characters: Kelly codices tend to have large amounts of rules and wargear options on character - both squad leaders and HQs - but comparably few on basic troopers.
*Strong balancing: Kelly codices usually have good internal balance (SWs being the exception), and strong but reasonable external balance (SWs being the exception).
*Few and low-key unit invention: Kelly codices tend to have relatively few new units in them (compared to the others), and the ones present are usually variants, or otherwise similiar to existing units (as usual, SWs are the exception).

[Pyriel]

Our fluff his already kinda good, i won't bother if it doesn't change that much, but, the thing is that, too me, it work well with rules too. So my hopes are that we keep that balance between fluff and rules and don't get stupid fluff add to justify crazy rules...

As for the iconic unit of the BTs... beside EC their's the LRC, remember that time when others chapters were limited to one unlike us... and we have the blessed hull upgrade for it, and i can really imagine that it will protect us against AT psy powers.

In games workshop's site, there is an item modelled on an initiate or whatever, called "hexagramix wards" that is said, below the pic, to protect from psychic powers. weird?yup-main, official games workshop's site.

[Shamana]

3. he has two problems: one, he doesnt write that good fluff-he's more of a wargamer than a fluffy player, and its reflected when he writes a codex. he is "conservative" in his fluff, doesnt add too much or change much. I'd like better fluff, i dont think Phil Kelly is the one to do it.

I would disagree. Remember, Phil Kelly wrote the last DE codex, which pretty much redefined Dark Eldar. There wasn't a lot of fluff on them before, and hehad free room to expand on that. So expand he did, and I'd say he did a pretty good job. I haven't read the previous versions of his other codices (SW, orks, and eldar), but as far as I know he mostly keeps to what previous fluff exists; overall, the fluff in his codices - old and new - is imo decent to good.

Compared to Cruddace, whose last 2 40k codices (IG and Nids) differed vastly in power level, and Ward, who got a lot of flak, especially for fluff (although some of the BA and GK rules weren't appreciated too much either), I'd say Kelly is possibly the best choice. He does have his poor moments (like undercosting grey hunters and long fangs), but is generally good for whatever army he works on.

[Pyriel]

I like Phil Kelly, but i gotta find something bad for him :P and if he has something bad, its his undercosting iconic units(grey hunters and longfangs is most definitely NOT the only thing he undercosted. haemonculi, venoms, holofalcons(esp for 4th), firedragons, and arguably lootas) and reluctance to be too innovative (compared to Ward, who writes worse fluff than Kelly, but is more innovative).
i have to write something bad too, i cant be all "Kelly is perfect " :P

[Shamana]

I'm not so sure about haemys and venoms - they just work very well with the rest of the army, but their basic profile has some glaring weaknesses. Anyway, it's a matter of taste, but if Kelly writes the Black Templars I expect a pretty decent codex. Hopefully he does doublecheck his unit pricings with someone else though, it would not be good if initiates cost as much as the SoB battle sisters with their obviously worse profile.

[Pyriel]

remember: Rage USR, i.e. MUST run forwards, to closest enemy, even if the are in an objective. no wierd "up to d6, so i move o inches, remaining on the objective" like today's righteous zeal;MUST forget objectives and keep running forward. that's rage. in a troops choice.in, quite possibly, the only troops choice. so i'd say the price paid is high enough

(all this assuming the rumour from b & c is true)

[Shamana]

That's if you fail a Ld test mind you. Also, I expect that if it does end up in the codex, there will be a HQ or squad upgrade option (like how WG are for bloodclaws) that ameliorates the issue. I doubt anyone thinks losing control of your army en masse is a fun thing to do for troops - heck, at present even Berserkers don't have rage.

Even possibly getting rage now and then, something in the vicinity of 12 points for a full-fledged space marine in power armor is very cheap - when, say, bloodclaws (the closest thing, concept-wise) cost 15. Sure, Kelly is probably aware he overcosted them and undercosted the GH, but a full-on marine for 11 points and neophytes for the cost of an ork boy sounds way too much. I would be very surprised if this happened.

[StratManKudzu]

That's if you fail a Ld test mind you. Also, I expect that if it does end up in the codex, there will be a HQ or squad upgrade option (like how WG are for bloodclaws) that ameliorates the issue.

Just want to say, fantastic vocabulary!