Info about the Marines that founded the Grey Knights

[Grunge]

I'm sure this has been asked before but I failed to find any thread with the titles I searched for.

What is known or generally accepted about the 8 Marines who went to Titan to form the Grey Knights?

Also, Lexicanum lists the following:

Heresy Era
Supreme Grand Master Janus - First Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights
Grand Master Garviel Loken - Formerly of the Luna Wolves
Grand Master Iacton Qruze - Formerly of the Luna Wolves
Grand Master Nathaniel Garro - Formerly of the Death Guard
Grand Master Varren - Formerly of the World Eaters
Grand Master Tyloss Rubio - Formerly of the Ultramarines


I recon all of these were in the first 8? Who is Janus and what else is known about him?

Also, what has become of these 8 founding Marines? Are they still part of the chapter?

[Dead.Blue.Clown]

I'm sure this has been asked before but I failed to find any thread with the titles I searched for.

What is known or generally accepted about the 8 Marines who went to Titan to form the Grey Knights?

Also, Lexicanum lists the following:

Heresy Era
Supreme Grand Master Janus - First Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights
Grand Master Garviel Loken - Formerly of the Luna Wolves
Grand Master Iacton Qruze - Formerly of the Luna Wolves
Grand Master Nathaniel Garro - Formerly of the Death Guard
Grand Master Varren - Formerly of the World Eaters
Grand Master Tyloss Rubio - Formerly of the Ultramarines


I recon all of these were in the first 8? Who is Janus and what else is known about him?

Also, what has become of these 8 founding Marines? Are they still part of the chapter?

Nothing's known yet, apart from Janus. Those names are guesses.

[shadowhawk2008]

Nothing's known yet, apart from Janus. Those names are guesses.

This. Just because of Malcador's conversation with Garro at the end of The Flight of the Eisenstein and Garro's subsequent "adventures" people have automatically assumed that these guys are the founders of the Grey Knights and their first commanders.

They could be. But it is doubtful.

First, Jim Swallow himself has repeatedly warned people not to leap to conclusions. There is definitely a twist in the story here. Also, the theory assumes that all these guys will actually survive the entire events of the Heresy. That's a cop-out.

Why should we care about these characters if they are just going to live through the whole thing and come off it with the chicks and the money? I mean, people like Sevatar die and these guys get off easy? Baaah.

As DBC said, the lexicanum thing is only conjecture. All we know about these 8 guys is what is mentioned in the codex itself. And that only gives us one name: Janus.

[ryng_sting]

Janus is the only confirmed Grand Master. Whether Janus actually was his real name is a matter of conjecture. Grey Knights ritually receive a new name upon acceptance (and Janus was the two-faced god of the Romans). I rather hope he was Garro.

Garro's mission was to gather Space Marines to form the nucleus of a 'ghost legion', on Malcador's orders. He's referred to as 'the grey knight' because of his unpainted armour, and as Malcador's 'knight errant', and the Marines he gathers have latent psyker abilities.

It sems doubtful they weren't the first 8 Grand Masters of the Grey Knights. Otherwise, the writers would have to introduce a fresh batch of unknowns to do the job, after having already invested time in setting up Garro's mission and its importance. You'd also lose the pleasing irony - that some of the founding members of a chapter devoted to fighting daemons came from the Traitor Legions.

[poodles]

ghost chapter eh?! LEGION OF THE DAMNED!!!!!

blood ravens are a possability. nothing is known of their founding and they have a high number of psykers

[shadowhawk2008]

Sigh.. here comes the bandwagon! Thousand Sons = Blood Ravens!

[Dhurrin]

Less a bandwagon, more of a battering ram.

[Dead.Blue.Clown]

It sems doubtful they weren't the first 8 Grand Masters of the Grey Knights. Otherwise, the writers would have to introduce a fresh batch of unknowns to do the job, after having already invested time in setting up Garro's mission and its importance. You'd also lose the pleasing irony - that some of the founding members of a chapter devoted to fighting daemons came from the Traitor Legions.

Not so. Firstly, it's so early in the Heresy that there's plenty of time for new characters to be introduced, especially given the huge amount of Legion forces given no screentime yet.

And secondly, there's no loss of irony. Grey Knights were always rumoured to be from the Traitor Legions. It doesn't necessarily have to be these guys.

[Son of Sanguinius]

Lexicanum is just like wikipedia. Shocker, I know.

It's good for an overview, but likely as not, it's crap on the details. We don't know who the original Grand Masters are, and my guess is that we won't find out. My guess is that Garro and his crew will be set to actual special forces operations until most of them die in the process, at which time the survivors will help to train the first Grey Knights.

[Spider-pope]

While it would be nice to see characters like Loken and Garro "win" in the end and become the basis for the Grey Knights, it just feels too obvious to be the actual end result of their particular stories.
Personally i half expect for their tales to end with the first High Lords of Terra saying "yeah, you did great helping us beat Horus, but you're from Traitor legions and you may still be corrupt. Guards, take them away for execution".

[stormblade]

Why should we care about these characters if they are just going to live through the whole thing and come off it with the chicks and the money? I mean, people like Sevatar die and these guys get off easy? Baaah.

Why should we care about them if they are just going to get dead like everybody else?

And as for Sevatar, the only story I saw him in was Savage Weapons and there he was only dishing out cheesy melodramatic lines like: "I am going to wear your skin as a coat." or something such so he can die right away for all I care.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Supreme Grand Master Janus - First Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights
Grand Master Garviel Loken - Formerly of the Luna Wolves
Grand Master Iacton Qruze - Formerly of the Luna Wolves
Grand Master Nathaniel Garro - Formerly of the Death Guard
Grand Master Varren - Formerly of the World Eaters
Grand Master Tyloss Rubio - Formerly of the Ultramarines

Ive been on this ban wagon for a couple years now. Here is my current list.

Supreme Grand Master Nathaniel Garro aka "Janus" - Formerly of the Death Guard
Grand Master Garviel Loken aka "Cerberus"- Formerly of the Luna Wolves
Grand Master Iacton Qruze - Formerly of the Luna Wolves
Grand Master Masa(sp?) Varren - Formerly of the World Eaters
Grand Master Tyloss Rubio - Formerly of the Ultramarines
Grand Master Saul Tarvitz - Formerly of the Emperor's Children
Grand Master Revuel Arvida - Formerly of the Thousand Sons
Grand Master Zygmund Tarrasch - Formerly of the Iron Warriors

[Grunge]

Not so. Firstly, it's so early in the Heresy that there's plenty of time for new characters to be introduced, especially given the huge amount of Legion forces given no screentime yet.

Supreme Grand Master Nathaniel Garro aka "Janus" - Formerly of the Death Guard

He does bear the Sigilite's and the Inquisition seal in the audiobooks. If it's not him, there will be a lot to be written to fill the gap on whoever new comes into the scene.

Unless there's a nice little twist and someone already known fills that gap by some nice little tragic/epic event.

I also don't see how any more Legions can have a big impact or screentime in the Heresy series because they were basicaly absent from the action (Dark Angels, etc) but I see them having a part in these background Inquisition themes.

I got one request, can someone point out a list of what I should be reading to get the whole Grey Knights/Inquisition picture as detailed as possible? I'm reading through Atlas Infernal now, but I have bought the Eisenhorn and GK Omnibus, besides Ravenor, what else should I read, especially from the HH series? Also, by what order, if it actually matters?

Maybe Garro is actually Draigo? Suddenly all the epicness of his Codex fluff would make sense lol

[poodles]

Maybe Garro is actually Draigo? Suddenly all the epicness of his Codex fluff would make sense lol

That'd be so kool.... But id also get really P*SSED OFF!

[shadowhawk2008]

I got one request, can someone point out a list of what I should be reading to get the whole Grey Knights/Inquisition picture as detailed as possible? I'm reading through Atlas Infernal now, but I have bought the Eisenhorn and GK Omnibus, besides Ravenor, what else should I read, especially from the HH series? Also, by what order, if it actually matters?

Well. The two Garro audiobooks fit somewhere in there. There are also two more audiobooks due to come out and one more about Cerberus.

There are the Eisenhorn and Ravenor omnis. Dan is also starting work on a third trilogy soon.

There is the audio drama Thorn & Talon which has three stories on it.

There is the Grey Knights omnibus. Also add to that the Victories and Heroes anthologies which have three Inquisition related short stories: Sacrifice and Exhumed in the former; Headhunted in the latter.

There is the Deathwatch duology: Warrior Brood and Warrior Coven. They are also collected together in Kill Squad along with bonus comic strip content and the graphic novel Deathwatch.

The Inquisition is present in the first two and the fourth Soul Drinker novels.

The Inqusition is present in the first Ultramarines omnibus and in Chapter's Due IIRC.

That's all I can think off atm.

[Col. Tartleton]

There's almost no question that Janus was Garro. If I'm not mistaken the story of Kaldor Draigo's duel with Mortarion is a subtle hint to it.

The main characters of the Heresy stories (at least these Arcs) are Psykers. If you recall the Legions' psykers had to go underground and not use their powers. Rubio was a Codicer. There are subtle hints that Garro was a psyker but he hides it as his duty demands of him. He's not a trained librarian but he's definitely a psyker. He displays Psychometry. Loken also has moments of prescience.

Are the Ghosts the Grey Knights? Perhaps. Are they their predecessors? Definitely.

Garro is "The Grey Knight." But whether he founded them or they were named after him is debatable.

[Spider-pope]

That's all I can think off atm.

Just to add to the list the Ciaphas Cain novels feature a fair bit of Inquisitorial goings on.

There's almost no question that Janus was Garro.

The fact that its so obvious makes me question if its true or not. Like i said having Garro and friends turn out to be all the founding Grand Masters of the Grey Knights just smacks too much of a happy ending., heroes beat the bad guys, end up in charge of their own chapter of super-good guys.

Like ADB said, its still very early in the Heresy, theres plenty of time to add a few more contenders for Grey Knight founders into the ring.

[shadowhawk2008]

Jim Swallow and Christian Dunn have said as much. They don't WANT a happy ending for all the characters. That would be a cop-out in that all the heroes would come out at the top in the end. Some of them are definitely not going to make it.

But what they do till then is I suppose the issue

[Brother Dimetrius]

While it is very clear that Garro and his merry band are the embryonic Inquisition, everything after that is mere speculation. We know nothing of the (11?) individuals who would eventually go on to found the Ordos and the Grey Knights.

[Grimbad]

Honestly, I'd far prefer something like
"Surprise twist, these guys found the previously unexplained Templars Psykologis and we never find out who Janus is."

I much prefer when the Heresy series keeps the big mysteries mysterious but fills in the little things.