Forgeworld getting a finecast make-over?

[Mr_Foulscumm]

I love this place. I really do!

So someone got figures still on the sprue and the crowd gasps in horror! Oh no! Failcast!

[Deamon-forge]

can we get some more pictures up of other people's so called finecast FW sprues ?

[EmperorNorton]

tbh that 'example' is a rather good model. theres maybe 1 point on the whole model thats actually miscast. thats the ribcage.

So nowadays the prerequisite for something to be described as 'good' is that it's totally ruined in only one area?
Would you go to a restaurant where you know the chef spits into your food, because you know he only spits into one ingredient?
Or if you go buy yourself a coat, would you buy one that had holes of a proportionate size to those in that mini's cloak?

[Darnok]

Since the OP has turned out to be wrong, and because we do not need yet another Finecast cryfest - least of all in N&R - the only conclusion can be the following:

Thread closed.


Darnok [=I=]
The WarSeer Inquisition

[spaint2k]

First off, thanks to Darnok for reopening this thread at my request.

Back in May last year I bought a character conversion pack from Forge World. It was finecast, no doubt about it. Recently, I bought the same item again and was greatly relieved to find that it was in Forge World's more usual harder resin (although there was mould slip on some items that really doesn't look good).

I've got some comparison pics to post here, but first I'll post my thoughts on them:

1. Finecast SHRINKS. Yes, that's right. One of Finecasts's alleged points in its favour is that it holds detail better than metal because it doesn't shrink. The comparison pics below should put this point to bed because it's clear that Finecast shrinks more than normal resin, and holding these pieces in my hands I can confirm that this shrinkage has a deleterious effect on the detail.

2. Finecast's not really more flexible than normal resin. Look at the sword pictures; both of them are bendy pieces of rubbish. Not to mention that the new one has horrendous mould slip at the hilt.

3. Forge World's quality still isn't that great. Ironically, the best casts I ever received from Forge World were the ones that were labelled as Made in China. You can see significant mould slip on the legs from the new set. The Finecast ones had the same problem but I've begun scraping it away.

4. Hopefully, Forge World has rejected Finecast for its use. The dates I received these would indicate that Forge World was simply testing this material and eventually decided against it.

And now the pics:

Plasma pistol comparison showing shrinkage. I overlapped the two sprues so the FC plasma pistol is on the left, while the bolt pistol on the left is actually the harder resin.



Foot comparison showing shrinkage (and check out the mould slip on the new piece):



Bendy swords:

Finecast


Resin


General comparison pic:

[eldargal]

FW responded to this issue ages ago, they tested some of the Finecast techniques using FW kits, but using FW resin.

From the FW Facebook page:

Finecast resin is not Forge World resin. While both are a two-part resin mix, Finecast with its additional 'flex' isn't suitable for manufacturing most of the FW range, although many of the techniques were trialed on some of our smaller kits such as heavy weapons teams. The customers in question have probably just received one of these kits.

[spaint2k]

FW responded to this issue ages ago, they tested some of the Finecast techniques using FW kits, but using FW resin. It is not Finecast.

Where did they respond to this?

The resin is different to other resins I've received from Forge World, but identical to Finecast pieces I've handled. The surface texture is identical, the flexibility is identical (the other resin sword didn't really have the same "spring" to it as the Finecast one). The hardness - hell, even the way it scrapes off the model is the same as Finecast and NOT normal resin.

Essentially, I cannot believe that the first one was made with Finecast techniques but not Finecast resin. If you handled them yourself I'm sure you'd agree.

[eldargal]

They responded on their Facebook page, several times in fact. I've had FW kits with radically different resins so I can understand why you might think you had some Finecast resin. One my Avatars I bought years before Finecast could easily pass for Finecast.

[spaint2k]

They responded on their Facebook page, several times in fact. I've had FW kits with radically different resins so I can understand why you might think you had some Finecast resin. One my Avatars I bought years before Finecast could easily pass for Finecast.

Thanks for the links.

I don't believe they're telling the truth. Again, if you handled these pieces yourself you'd agree. I have the evidence in my hands versus their assurances to the contrary - assurances which run contrary to common sense. Why would the Finecast equipment work with FW resin and yet produce an identical result to FC resin?

I will post the sprues to your home address if you want to see them for yourself. PM me your address if you want (I won't be able to post till after the Chinese New Year period though).

[Hendarion]

Great links, Eldargal. Thanks.

[Archibald_TK]

Finecast, FW resin or whatever (as I don't take what a company will tell me at face value anyway), there is one thing I'll keep in mind now, it's that resin can shrink, and not in a slight way. Thought it is expected that nearly every material will shrink when cooled, I would have expected resin to be far less subject to it than metal.

[Hendarion]

Why is that? I mean why did you expect it to shrink less? It fumes, it reacts, it gets hot. Every resin-user (or resin-bottle) will tell you a shrinkage of 3-10%.

[spaint2k]

I would like to make an addendum to my post because I was not clear on the bendiness of the swords.

I was disappointed that the "FW" version was as flexible and bendy as the "Finecast" version. However, the "FC" version snapped easily back to its original shape, while I think I put a kink in the "FW" version as I bent it to the limit of its flexibility. I will check when I get back home in a week's time, and post a picture here if necessary. I think the flexibility issue is important in ascertaining whether the "FC" version I have really is Finecast or not.

[Archibald_TK]

Why is that? I mean why did you expect it to shrink less? It fumes, it reacts, it gets hot. Every resin-user (or resin-bottle) will tell you a shrinkage of 3-10%.

You already know why. When Finecast was released and for months after that, resin shrinking less than metal was a persistent argument regarding Finecast models holding better details than the old ones. I don't remember anybody jumping into the fray and explaining that it may not be true as some resin shrink heavily until today.

[Hendarion]

When Finecast was released and for months after that, resin shrinking less than metal was a persistent argument regarding Finecast models holding better details than the old ones.

Yea, but that had never been true anyway.

[tezza21]

personally i dislike finecast. All the minis i have bought were terrible my emporers champion has the finish of a cheese grater and my succubus and lilith hesperax (spelling) is horrid due to bubbles and broken lances in the pack .

[Hendarion]

Now comes the important question:

If ForgeWorld decided that this material is not suitable for their miniatures, why does Games-Workshop believe it is suitable for theirs?

I mean the miniatures and details sometimes might be higher from ForgeWorld, but many miniatures aren't and we've seen the issues GW has with that material. Why is ForgeWorld smarter than GW is?

[Radium]

Just to confirm some suspicions: my FW order from some time last summer had some parts cast in 'interesting' sprues. I now checked these, and compared them to the finecast sprues I have laying around, and it's the exact same stuff. Same colour, same size sprue, responds the same to cutting/filling/sanding/pinning etc.
My latest FW order included none of those though, only pieces cast in regular FW resins. So apparently FW did some trials using finecast, but returned to their usual resins (at least, that's my conclusion based on the facts I have at my disposal).

[GomezAddams]

Thing is, if anyone had a real problem with this - as in a seriously 'finecast is the devils work' kind of problem, then it wouldn't be that hard to sort out.

I'm sure someone in the hobby community has access to equipment that would show the chemical make up of the two materials. If it turns out they were the same, then they'd be up the brown colored creek for mis-selling product.

Not that I'm particularly bothered to be honest - casters switch between resins as supplies dictate. I should imagine that forgeworld use an awful lot of resin, so having to switch between different brands is likely something which happens regularly. If you have a giant pot of fine cast down the hall though, why not give it a whirl?

[lbecks]

Thing is, if anyone had a real problem with this - as in a seriously 'finecast is the devils work' kind of problem, then it wouldn't be that hard to sort out.

I'm sure someone in the hobby community has access to equipment that would show the chemical make up of the two materials. If it turns out they were the same, then they'd be up the brown colored creek for mis-selling product.

Not that I'm particularly bothered to be honest - casters switch between resins as supplies dictate. I should imagine that forgeworld use an awful lot of resin, so having to switch between different brands is likely something which happens regularly. If you have a giant pot of fine cast down the hall though, why not give it a whirl?

I think the point is if they had a big pot of fine cast and wanted to test it out, those are their tests. When they're done testing and if they deemed the product inferior they shouldn't package the tests and sell it to people, especially if a person is expecting another type of material and FW isn't going to keep using FC. That's dubious.