Some Dark Elf Rumours

[shabbadoo]

I am a little confused about the "deamonette issue" being discussed.

What is/was the issue?

I think "the issue" has to do with a comparison of the plastic Daemonettes with the Juan Diaz metal Daemonettes that they replaced; the issue being that the plastics are not nearly as fine/feminine. Now, imagine new Witch Elves being worked on that have more in common with the plastic Daemonettes than with those metal Daemonettes, or even with the 40K Dark Eldar Wyches. Not that I've seen anything on the new stuff, but I think that a lack of fineness/femininity is "the issue" being referred to.

[Punk_in_Drublic]

I don't get it. Why GW doesn't prioritize the revamping of a terribly dated core set.

Myself, I started my Chaos army immediately after they updated the chaos warriors, back in the days.

The excellent new skaven clanrats set also made me jump that bandwagon.

In my opinion the high elf and dark elf spearmen are what the old chaos warrior set used to be. The stick out like an ugly, sore thumb amongst the rather naff regiments of their respective armies.

I'd love to see new plastic harpies and new dark elf warriors. But for the harpies, I hope that the new VC will produce some cool bats or something that I can use instead of "daemonettes with wings harpies".

[Anardakil]

The new daemonettes are awesome in my opinion i think the whole sort of hermaphrodite theme fits Slaanesh daemons very well. But most people are disappointed in them it seems, because they were expecting sexy chicks.

It would be disappointing if the new witch elves don't look like women though :P However i think people are a bit too hard on GW for not sculpting females well. They've made some excellent female models in the wood elves, dark elves, bretonnian and dark eldar ranges.
i think people in this hobby are generally more picky with GW's females than their males because most of the hobbyists are guys and want to see pretty female models

Sometimes they do fail impressively though, i can't deny that. A certain high elven wizard comes to mind... :P my point is however that i don't think they're necessarily any worse at sculpting females than males, just that the customers are less picky about what a male should look like.

[DarkMark]

My theory is that none of the sculptors has spent any time with a naked woman before.

Mrs. Goodwin might have something to say about that More likely is that female forms are expected by GW buyers to be size zero with a DD bust.

Far too salty and early for any real credability.

[rodmillard]

Sometimes they do fail impressively though, i can't deny that. A certain high elven wizard comes to mind... :P my point is however that i don't think they're necessarily any worse at sculpting females than males, just that the customers are less picky about what a male should look like.

Which is strange, because most of their target demographic will be much more familiar with the male form than female...

[Brother Dimetrius]

In my opinion the high elf and dark elf spearmen are what the old chaos warrior set used to be. The stick out like an ugly, sore thumb amongst the rather naff regiments of their respective armies.

The current priority seems to be to convert the majority of regiments into plastic where possible, with finecast consisting of the remainder. According to that philosophy revamping existing plastic kits is not high on the to do list.

[Tuatha Dar]

The current priority seems to be to convert the majority of regiments into plastic where possible, with finecast consisting of the remainder. According to that philosophy revamping existing plastic kits is not high on the to do list.

True, and I can live with the current Dark Elf Spearmen/Crossbowmen. Not to mention the new Corsairs which are VERY nice. The High Spearmen/archers are of course an entirely different subject and a different thread, they are atrocious IMO.

For the Dark Elves, there really are alot of things that could be targeted for plastic re-releases besides the Spearmen/RCBs including:

- Dark Riders (among the very oldest models still being used in Warhammer)
- Harpies
- Executioners
- Black Guard
- Witch Elves
- Shades
- Witch Elf Death Hag/Cauldron of Blood
- Cold One Chariots
- Characters on Dark Pegasus
- Manticore (the new monstrosity they came out with for SoM doesn't count)

I seriously doubt they'll re-do the Hydra or RBT since they just released those in Resin.

So GW has a very large part of the Dark Elf range to re-do, not even counting anything new.

Tuatha

[Punk_in_Drublic]

In my opinion, the exec could just be released finecast. The Black guard *could* use an upgrade.

I get the argument, and the priority about getting an all plastic/resin range for the current armies, but from a design perspective, the core spearman/rxb regiment is the biggest problem.

[Sheena Easton]

If they get decent plastic Dark Riders and Witch Elves, I'd finally start the Dark Elf army I've always wanted but never got round to...

Though if they go back to the style of 4th / 5th Ed (or the older Marauder ones) then I suspect I'd be the only person who likes them...

Mrs. Goodwin might have something to say about that More likely is that female forms are expected by GW buyers to be size zero with a DD bust

With said bust barely contained by cobweb strand used as a token nod towards decency of course...

[Druchii Monkey]

In my opinion, the exec could just be released finecast. The Black guard *could* use an upgrade.

I get the argument, and the priority about getting an all plastic/resin range for the current armies, but from a design perspective, the core spearman/rxb regiment is the biggest problem.

Witch elves could be the priority for a number of reasons.

1. Apparently AOW is working on their set. IP considerations.

2. They can count as core for a DE Khainite army with Crone Hellebron. If they put the witch elves in plastic and succeed, along with executioners in finecast like you suggest, they will unlock a huge amount of purchasing in their DE customers.

3. It's a huge challenge. People don't think they can get it right, but their challenge is to surprise us and make it work - whoever did Lelith Hesperix needs to be on that team. The witch elves should be the next step up for GW in demonstrating to us what they are capable of. The DE sorceress was a test model for the sort of expressiveness i'm hoping for but maybe if they're not sure of direction they should do two different finecast versions, see which sells more and do the plastic unit based on that.

Also i have heard/seen rumours, can't remember quite where exactly that Dark Elves will be a cheeky May/June release between the planned 40K releases.

[Druchii Monkey]

If they get decent plastic Dark Riders and Witch Elves, I'd finally start the Dark Elf army I've always wanted but never got round to...

Though if they go back to the style of 4th / 5th Ed (or the older Marauder ones) then I suspect I'd be the only person who likes them...

With said bust barely contained by cobweb strand used as a token nod towards decency of course...

A mate of min had those and they looked pretty cool then on the table but that was 20 years ago - look feels a bit dated now.

Prefer this kind of look:
http://www.freebooterminiatures.de/en/catalog/65
http://www.freebooterminiatures.de/en/catalog/67
http://www.freebooterminiatures.de/en/catalog/54
http://www.freebooterminiatures.de/en/catalog/55

[theJ]

Well... The spikes can be extra bitz. If you make the body the same (quite easily done, it's basically robes and armour plate). Give us two distinctly different head and shield options and you will be done...

They aren't THAT different, are they?

yes... yes they really are that different.

As mentioned, none of the bits would be the same. The legs would be different, the chest would be different, both arms+weapons would be different... the head is the only part that COULD be effectively shared... and even those would benefit immensely from separate designs... unless the aesthetics are revamped, as mentioned.

Regardless, Dark Elf core is quite fine. Dark Elf kits that needs remaking are Dark Riders and Harpies, primarily. The specials could benefit from plastics as well, and the Hydra could use a new sculpt (but it ain't vital to get in plastic).

Overall, making new Witch Elves make sense. The current sculpts, while charming in their own way, overall follow a "cartoon" style that does not fit into the rest of the range. Also factor in that Witch Elves are quite iconic, and that good female models tend to sell well, and the choice is obvious.

EDIT: I've taken another look at them and I've come to realise that their biggest problem (as with many older models, tbh) are the poses. They're far too... "swingey". I'd say it looks like they're posing for something, except nobody would ever strike a pose like that. It might make them less eyecatching, but giving them a more standard "walk slowly forward" pose would make them a lot more pleasing to the eye... Alternatively, you could pose them running forward, Wych style, which would fit them a whole lot better, but might be harder to model properly.

@Ghost: Could we have more of a description of the new ones than "disappointing"? Has their equipment had any aesthetic changes? How are their poses? Do they all have a "standard" look, or are they more individual? How are they on the bit & conversion side of things? Anything you could give us would be greatly appreciated

[zoggin-eck]

I've got a load of the earlier witch elves armed with sword and shield, fully clothed, so perhaps I won't feel silly using them as witch elves again if the new ones are naff. They are currently hiding in the rear ranks of crossbowmen regiments

I'm happy to wait and see, rather than fret over one persons opinion of unfinished models. I own and enjoy entire armies of models that others would hate.

[SideshowLucifer]

I miss my old Witchelves with the 80's hairstyle in rainbow hues.

[shabbadoo]

More likely is that female forms are expected by GW buyers to be size zero with a DD bust.

Well, not necessarily the DD bust, but the size 0, yes. These are female Dark Elves, not Crumb Girls.

[theJ]

Well, not necessarily the DD bust, but the size 0, yes. These are female Dark Elves, not Crumb Girls.

It both scares and intrigues me that you keep pictures like that on hand...

[Silvertongue]

@Ghost: Could we have more of a description of the new ones than "disappointing"? Has their equipment had any aesthetic changes? How are their poses? Do they all have a "standard" look, or are they more individual? How are they on the bit & conversion side of things? Anything you could give us would be greatly appreciated

Yes, please. Some detail about their equipment or hair would be nice. I had the hope that GW would draw inspiration from the WAR Witch Elves, which are wonderful in my opinion.
And I for one hope they don't bring back the horrid Bonnie Tyler-esque superfeathered 80's hair. Braids, long flowing hair, even rastas or whatever, or shaven heads for all I care... But no 80's hair. Please.

[Azazyll]

See, I prefer the older style to the newer ones. Ultimately less cartoony. But if they could just all be like Lelith I think we'd all be happy - ie a feminine face and reasonably-sized breasts.

[spartan41]

Yes, please. Some detail about their equipment or hair would be nice. I had the hope that GW would draw inspiration from the WAR Witch Elves, which are wonderful in my opinion.
And I for one hope they don't bring back the horrid Bonnie Tyler-esque superfeathered 80's hair. Braids, long flowing hair, even rastas or whatever, or shaven heads for all I care... But no 80's hair. Please.

the WAR witch elves look great to me and it would suprise me if they took them in a different direction.

Plus maybe ghost is just having some fun with us and really he saw they are going to be epic, and everyone will want a Witch elf army.

[Tokamak]

Lots of people liked the Diaznettes that don't like the deliberately ugly retro look of the plastics, and the handwave about being supposed to be ugly is no consolation. GW's complete failure to recognise the demand for their return and put them in the Collectors' Range or anything like that does not help either.

It just seems change for the sake of change. A real shame.

It would be so much better if GW just attempted to replicate these metal elite units in plastic as accurately as posssible. The elves and daemons all had amazing metal models, why not seize upon that and produce the same in plastic (where possible?).