Skyrim Civil War: Whose side are you on?

[Nazguire]

+1, so I chose "neither" in the poll.

Even the "barbarians" (those guys in the province Reach) have their plausible arguments, the seperatistic storm cloaks ( or the Talos worshipping Nord) don't come out very good in compehension to the Imperials and the Barbarians.

And though I really don't like the arrogant Thalmor members (btw, are there Dunmers inculded), they are in the end just the hated "winners" of the war resulting from the oblivion crisis and they show this in a fairly annoying way.

I would say it's a ******* civil war for power and ideology, so every side is as good as the others.

Go for Daedra (the three good ones, of course)!

The Dunmer aren't included in the Thalmor. Only the High Elves and Wood Elves that live within the Aldimeri Dominion. The Dunmer are busy fighting off the Argonians of Black Marsh who invaded out of retaliation for the Dunmer's enslavement of Argonians in Morrowind.

[Gaz]

My Nord joined the stormcloaks, seemed like the patriotic thing to do...also they didn't try to behead me.

My Khajit, on the other hand, is supporting the empire just for the money.

[Voss]

The Dunmer aren't included in the Thalmor. Only the High Elves and Wood Elves that live within the Aldimeri Dominion. The Dunmer are busy fighting off the Argonians of Black Marsh who invaded out of retaliation for the Dunmer's enslavement of Argonians in Morrowind.

Technically the Wood Elves aren't part of the Thalmor either. They are part of the Dominion (apparently not all that willingly), but the Thalmor are HE exclusive, a faction of the High Elves that formed the Dominion and dominate its politics.

I wouldn't be surprised if current Thalmor plans include 'liberating' the Dunmer from Argonian aggression, in order to bring them into the Dominion. (and I wouldn't be surprised if they aggravated the situation between the Dunmer and the Argonians to start the whole thing off).

Of course, they'll probably just exterminate the orcs as too corrupt.

[Nazguire]

Technically the Wood Elves aren't part of the Thalmor either. They are part of the Dominion (apparently not all that willingly), but the Thalmor are HE exclusive, a faction of the High Elves that formed the Dominion and dominate its politics.

I wouldn't be surprised if current Thalmor plans include 'liberating' the Dunmer from Argonian aggression, in order to bring them into the Dominion. (and I wouldn't be surprised if they aggravated the situation between the Dunmer and the Argonians to start the whole thing off).

Of course, they'll probably just exterminate the orcs as too corrupt.

Yeah sorry, got confused.

So yeah, HE are Thalmor, but the HE and WE live within the Aldimeri Dominion.

The next game will probably have the Dunmer liberated and the Argonians scattered to the wind.

What would the next game be I wonder. We've had Skyrim, Cyrodill and Daggerfall (encompassing Hammerfell and High Rock yes?) So what's left, Black Marsh and Elsweyr?

[AFnord]

What would the next game be I wonder. We've had Skyrim, Cyrodill and Daggerfall (encompassing Hammerfell and High Rock yes?) So what's left, Black Marsh and Elsweyr?

We only got the northern part of Hammerfell in Daggerfall, so we might still see a game set in that province (other than Redguard, which was set on an island). Apart from that, we still have: Summerset Isle, Valenwood, Elsweyr & Black Marsh. I don't think Summerset Isle will be in the next game, due to the current situation, but I would not rule out Valenwood (following the empires attempt to retake lost ground) or Elsweyr.

[Damocles8]

I wonder how long till we see all of Tamriel and the Summerset Isle as a game? Wouldn't that just be beyond epic?

[Wyrmwood]

I wonder how long till we see all of Tamriel and the Summerset Isle as a game? Wouldn't that just be beyond epic?

Maybe if they release an Elder Scrolls MMO.

From what I've gleaned in-game, I forsee the next game will either be set in Hammerfell, Summerset Isle or Cyrodill. Either one of those, or that MMO.

[Hrokka `Eadsplitter]

I hate the civil war.
Three characters, I've never picked any side.
My Nord fled with Hadvar, went honorably on with slaying dragons and just ignored their petty squabbles.
My Orc was supposed to go Stormcloak but went mainquest instead - I really don't like rascists -.-
My Imperial will help the Empire - as a mercenary ofc, he's no stupid^^

Summerset Isle would be quite the setting I think^^
Waking up as the last Blades agent in prison, escaping and setting out to exterminate the Dominion

[TheConverter15]

I'm now 80% a stormcloak, as I heard that a man in Riften had his daughter who was a medic in the rebel army cut down even though she never raised a sword. Plus I'm hoping to get Tullius's armour if it comes to it

[BorderKing]

You do get the armour but from a practical point of view I think it was made by chickens.

[Max_Killfactor]

Both sides are jerks to my Khajiit, so I haven't picked a side.

Although, through the Brotherhood quests I

killed the emperor

After doing that I decided that it's only fair if I

killed Ulfric also, but unfortunately he keeps respawning and then he yells at me

So I plan on just doing the main questline now. There are more important things to do than to help one group of human racists defeat the other.

[Wyrmwood]

To be fair, almost every single Khajit I've encountered has been a thief or bandit.

[Hellebore]

I didn't side with anyone really until about level 14. Then I sided with Imperial because everything I could glean from both sides painted Ulfric in a far more negative light than the Imperials.

Talos is Septim after all, so worshipping Talos is basically supporting the Empire, which is ironic given the banning of Talos Worship (which I've never really figured out, only that the Thalmor didn't like it for some mysterious reason).

Hellebore

[Hrokka `Eadsplitter]

I didn't side with anyone really until about level 14. Then I sided with Imperial because everything I could glean from both sides painted Ulfric in a far more negative light than the Imperials.

Talos is Septim after all, so worshipping Talos is basically supporting the Empire, which is ironic given the banning of Talos Worship (which I've never really figured out, only that the Thalmor didn't like it for some mysterious reason).

Hellebore

The Thalmor wanted Talos worship outlawed because Talos(As a human) could not ascend to the same position as the good ol' High Elf pantheon.

One of the books in Farengar Secret-Fire's bookshelf tells the whole tale.
Cheers.

[Hellebore]

I've been collecting as many books as I can (breezehome looks like a disused library with books spread out everywhere) but haven't managed to read many of them. I haven't stolen books from people's book shelves, but I'm sure another copy can be found somewhere else.

Basically it's a racial superiority thing then? So many people worship Talos anyway that it really seems like a ban in name only...

Hellebore

[EgregiousBalzach]

I've been collecting as many books as I can (breezehome looks like a disused library with books spread out everywhere) but haven't managed to read many of them. I haven't stolen books from people's book shelves, but I'm sure another copy can be found somewhere else.

Basically it's a racial superiority thing then? So many people worship Talos anyway that it really seems like a ban in name only...

Hellebore

No, the eight divines were the "Aedra" who created the world, as opposed to the "daedra" who were not involved.

Talos was only a human emperor that the empire deified and declared as being equal to the regular gods.

The way the mythology is set up, the aedra were diminished when they created the TES world and eventually became the mortal races.... "aedra" apparently meaning "our ancestors".

So, the elves are understandably upset that Talos, this conqueror from a lesser race, is being worshipped in the same way as the creation spirits.

[Hrokka `Eadsplitter]

I'm thinking of a Crusader-style character, which side would he take if he's a Talosdevotee?
He's been fighting at the Empire's side somewhere, his faith the one thing that drives him... Might get a moralcookie ^^

[Wyrmwood]

No, the eight divines were the "Aedra" who created the world, as opposed to the "daedra" who were not involved.

Talos was only a human emperor that the empire deified and declared as being equal to the regular gods.

The way the mythology is set up, the aedra were diminished when they created the TES world and eventually became the mortal races.... "aedra" apparently meaning "our ancestors".

So, the elves are understandably upset that Talos, this conqueror from a lesser race, is being worshipped in the same way as the creation spirits.

That's not really true, is it? Aedra, the gods and goddesses of Nirn, still exist as celestial beings that can no longer intervene directly in mortal affairs. The last to do so was Akatosh at the culmination of the Oblivion Crisis. The Elven translation references the Aedra as their, those of Men and Mer, ancestors in a creationist sense. The Elves believe that they should inherit Nirn because of that belief; not man, or any lesser race. The Elven belief of direct ancestral relation to the Aedra means they are, indeed, offended by the notion of a mere man joining that Pantheon. With the dominance of man, the Thalmor faction believe they've been wronged and robbed of their birthright - that is, to rule the world and the 'lesser' races because they, and they alone, have a direction link to the divines.

Really, the High Elves are a bunch of racists that use Talos as an excuse to embark on a war of conquest to subjugate the 'lesser' races.

I'm thinking of a Crusader-style character, which side would he take if he's a Talosdevotee?
He's been fighting at the Empire's side somewhere, his faith the one thing that drives him... Might get a moralcookie ^^

The Stormcloaks wish to be free of Imperial rule, the key reason for this is that they wish to reinstate Talos worship. That isn't to say that there aren't any Imperials that would like to worship Talos, and/or don't already so in private...

[Poseidal]

Haven't decided yet, but I'm leaning Imperial from what I read here even as a Nord character. From the way it looks, the Stormcloaks are a nationalistic rebellion but the Imperials they're fighting are mostly other Nords anyway.

[EgregiousBalzach]

That's not really true, is it?

Yes, it is. I suggest you do some research on the wiki.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Monomyth
Also: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ehlnofey

Finally, the magical beings of Mythic Aurbis told the ultimate story -- that of their own death. For some this was an artistic transfiguration into the concrete, non-magical substance of the world. For others, this was a war in which all were slain, their bodies becoming the substance of the world. For yet others, this was a romantic marriage and parenthood, with the parent spirits naturally having to die and give way to the succeeding mortal races.

Thus the Aedra gave free birth to the world, the beasts, and the beings, making these things from parts of themselves. This free birth was very painful, and afterwards the Aedra were no longer young, and strong, and powerful, as they had been from the beginning of days.

"But this was a trick. As Lorkhan knew, this world contained more limitations than not and was therefore hardly a thing of Anu at all. Mundus was the House of Sithis. As their aspects began to die off, many of the et'Ada vanished completely. Some escaped, like Magnus, and that is why there are no limitations to magic. Others, like Y'ffre, transformed themselves into the Ehlnofey, the Earthbones, so that the whole world might not die. Some had to marry and make children just to last. Each generation was weaker than the last, and soon there were Aldmer. Darkness caved in. Lorkhan made armies out of the weakest souls and named them Men, and they brought Sithis into every quarter.

So, the Aedra surrendered much of themselves to create, among other things, the mortal races. In this way, the mortal races can be seen to be "descendants" of the aedra, which is the position the high elves, the most direct descendents of the aldmer, take.

An interesting thing to note is the differing take that both men and mer have on the god of time, called Akatosh or Auri-El respectively. (the elven guy in KOTN says they're the same god)

"Some Aedra were disappointed and bitter in their loss, and angry with Shezarr, and with all creation, for they felt Shezarr had lied and tricked them. These Aedra, the Gods of the Aldmer, led by Auri-El, were disgusted by their enfeebled selves, and by what they had created. 'Everything is spoiled, for now, and for all time, and the most we can do is teach the Elven Races to suffer nobly, with dignity, and chastise ourselves for our folly, and avenge ourselves upon Shezarr and his allies.' Thus are the Gods of the Elves dark and brooding, and thus are the Elves ever dissatisfied with mortality, and always proud and stoic despite the harshness of this cruel and indifferent world.
"Other Aedra looked upon creation, and were well pleased. These Aedra, the Gods of Men and Beast Folk, led by Akatosh, praised and cherished their wards, the Mortal Races. 'We have suffered, and are diminished, for all time, but the mortal world we have made is glorious, filling our hearts and spirits with hope. Let us teach the Mortal Races to live well, to cherish beauty and honor, and to love one another as we love them.' Thus are the Gods of Men tender and patient, and thus are Men and Beast Folk great in heart for joy or suffering, and ambitious for greater wisdom and a better world.

Another thing to note is the religion of the 8 divines is also an imperial invention, of Alessia, to which was later added the worship of Talos. Originally, the various races worshipped their own gods independently like the daedra and tribunal by the dark elves. There are many more et'ada than the 8 divines and the 16 daedric princes.
Most importantly, the 8 divines were not the the only spirits to be involved in the act of creation.

Really, the High Elves are a bunch of racists that use Talos as an excuse to embark on a war of conquest to subjugate the 'lesser' races.

Yes.... and they're right.
One thing I disliked about oblivion was the inability to side with Umaril. Or Dagon, for that matter.
But for some reason you can become Sheogorath. Mystifying.