Skyrim Civil War: Whose side are you on?

[Wyrmwood]

I'm sorry to sidestep this discussion for a moment, but as you seem to have such an interest in Elder Scrolls lore I thought that this article would interest you. Even if it's wildly off the mark, or coincidental, it's always pleasant to see a canon that inspires some really quite nice ideas and/or theories. If it is true, then it's a lovely touch on Bethesda's part.

[EgregiousBalzach]

I'm sorry to sidestep this discussion for a moment, but as you seem to have such an interest in Elder Scrolls lore I thought that this article would interest you. Even if it's wildly off the mark, or coincidental, it's always pleasant to see a canon that inspires some really quite nice ideas and/or theories. If it is true, then it's a lovely touch on Bethesda's part.

Nice one, babe.

Back on-topic, as I've evidently brought this digression to it's conclusion, I would side with the stormcloaks. I've never had any sympathy for the empire in any of the games I've played.

[Still Standing]

My High Elf Mage come Assassin come Warrior (lots of careers in a 60 level character) sided with the Stormcloaks.

Off topic, but how do Vivec, Almexia and co fit in with the Divines? I am sure Vivec was mortal, but he is now (if he survived the collapse of the city named after him) a divine. He also knew the Dwemer and even Larkon, so he is rediculously old too.

[Wyrmwood]

The Tribunal used Kagrenac's Tools to make themselves into god-like creatures. The Dwemer had previously used the tools to make their very own god - an effort that was stopped by the Chimer.

Edit:

Nice one, babe.

Back on-topic, as I've evidently brought this digression to it's conclusion, I would side with the stormcloaks. I've never had any sympathy for the empire in any of the games I've played.

No, you haven't.

It's interesting, because although the Altmer can be considered closest to the divine in an evolutionary sense, the races of men clearly benefit from divine intervention and favouritism , suggesting that either the divines want each race on an equal footing (ethically, all sentient life has a right to live freely) or that they intend for men to inherit Nirn. At least two races of Elves have been wiped out, with another three being irrevocably changed/subjugated/cursed while man has been ascendant. Aside from that, Elves may have a superior grasp of magic, and magical application, but that does not mean they should somehow enslave or destroy the other races, including other mer. There is much wrong with their beliefs, despite the sliver of truth that holds the Thalmor's fairly weak world view together.

[Xollob]

I chose the Stormcloaks, and can't really see how it made much difference me liberating Skyrim, as imperials and imperial officials are still around.

slightly off topic but is there anyway of permanently killing off Maven Black-Briar as the cow purely dies my nut in.

[EgregiousBalzach]

My High Elf Mage come Assassin come Warrior (lots of careers in a 60 level character) sided with the Stormcloaks.

Off topic, but how do Vivec, Almexia and co fit in with the Divines? I am sure Vivec was mortal, but he is now (if he survived the collapse of the city named after him) a divine. He also knew the Dwemer and even Larkon, so he is rediculously old too.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Heart_of_Lorkhan

Seems that they derive their power from Lorkhan.

[Nocculum]

Which is funny, given you can kill Vivec in Morrowind (with stupendous effort).

I'm pure Lightbringer (liberating enchanting light glowy bad-ass for good) so full on Empire here.

[Thornbrier]

They are presented fairly evenly, even despite the early beheading situation. Racists ruled by a power hungry leader or a corrupt bureaucracy failing under its own weight as it tries to meet the demands of its treaties and its people. The Racists are fighting for their religion, one in which I play an important part. Given time, the Stormcloaks will also fall to corruption, its a given.

But in the end, I'm going Imperial myself. The tipping point was when I went to go become a Stormcloak and overheard Ulfrics plans. I was shocked and dismayed. I'm a Thane there, I'm not letting Ulfric overthrow MY Jarl!

(I'm actually playing at the moment, so I'm a little heated about the subject at the moment.)

I went to warn my Jarl, but the game wouldn't let me. I'm heading to the Imperials to see if I can't get them to protect my Jarl, since it would also support their goals as well.

[Darkness Screamer]

I`m on my side

Me against the rest of Skyrim

[nottie]

But in the end, I'm going Imperial myself. The tipping point was when I went to go become a Stormcloak and overheard Ulfrics plans. I was shocked and dismayed. I'm a Thane there, I'm not letting Ulfric overthrow MY Jarl!

This is why my character ultimately went for the Imperials, even though she's a Nord. I figured that she viewed her loyalty as more of a regional matter than anything else, and she's only helping the Imperials for the good of Whiterun. Balgruuf is the only ruler that seems to care more about his people than anything else.

The ultimate enemies are the Thalmor, anyway, and the Stormcloaks winning the civil war would probably only make it easier for them. However, eventually it'd be great if Skyrim could split off after that threat is over. (And under someone that isn't like Ulfric.)

I like out complex the issue is.. I felt like my choice could easily go either way considering there's so much grey area. (:

[EgregiousBalzach]

The Tribunal used Kagrenac's Tools to make themselves into god-like creatures. The Dwemer had previously used the tools to make their very own god - an effort that was stopped by the Chimer.

Edit:

No, you haven't.

It's interesting, because although the Altmer can be considered closest to the divine in an evolutionary sense, the races of men clearly benefit from divine intervention and favouritism , suggesting that either the divines want each race on an equal footing (ethically, all sentient life has a right to live freely) or that they intend for men to inherit Nirn. At least two races of Elves have been wiped out, with another three being irrevocably changed/subjugated/cursed while man has been ascendant. Aside from that, Elves may have a superior grasp of magic, and magical application, but that does not mean they should somehow enslave or destroy the other races, including other mer. There is much wrong with their beliefs, despite the sliver of truth that holds the Thalmor's fairly weak world view together.

I only just noticed that you edited your post to respond to me.

I believe the point was about Talos' place in the TES pantheon. Whether it's justified or not. And whether the Thalmor's response to a foreign empire imposing the worship of one of it's emperors upon a subjugated people is justified or not.... in fact whether the impulse to declare freedom from an invader and to then seek to weaken that invader as much as possible is justified.

But the problem I have with this is the problem I have with the supposed villains of every Bethesda game; they're not really villains, they're just a competing faction who act like ******** needlessly because the script demands it; because you as the player are automatically set to be friends with Bethesda's good guys and they need some more immediate justification than lolfascists or lolracists. This ******* behaviour is then wedded to a certain ideology and Evil(tm) is created. The Enclave in F03 for example.
The Stormcloaks want to be free. This seems perfectly justifiable to me. The Thalmor want the same, but also revenge for the imposition of a false god.
The empire wants to conquer everybody and convert them to worship of its emperor... yet somehow they are "good" when the Thalmor who are doing the same are "bad". I find this hypocritical.

If you've ever played the FO3 DLC The Pitt then that is the one instance where the player is given a clear moral choice to make; free the slaves or help their slave master rebuild a city. The reward is either immediate in the case of the former, or in the future in the case of the latter.

Usually the player is railroaded down one course. Or given some cheap catch when the player wants to go off-script, like in Ulfric's case.

Your point about humans being favoured by the gods is correct, however in all TES games, as I have said above, the empire is the favourite and always comes out smelling of roses. It could be writer bias. As an aside, you should remember that the empire only conquered Summerset Isles through use of the Numidium. After Oblivion, they seem to have rapidly lost control of most of the provinces. The empire is in decline, it would seem. In the next game, I am sure the empire will be resurrected, it being the players duty to reconquer the various racists and fascists of the old provinces who will be menacing Cyrodiil...maybe.

In fact, I think my central point is that the writers are inserting a particular ideology into these games which I resent, simply by the actions of various factions (who are made to personify various ideologies) and how the player as spectator can be expected to respond to it all... and thereby align themselves with a particular ideology which is presented as "good".

I might even go so far as to say that the Empire represents the concept of Globalisation and that both the Stormcloaks and Thalmor represent Nationalism. If you agree with those designations then I am sure you can draw your own conclusions as to where the writers are coming from...

[Gazak Blacktoof]

I started the game by following the storm cloak guy, there wasn't a chance in hell this elf was going to follow somebody that, less than 5 minutes ago, wanted to see his head on a spike.

After doing a lot of exploring though I found that the nords don't like dunmer and only got "their land" by oppressing the natives. If they wanted to fight the empire they were going to have to do it without me.

At that point I swore off both sides and decided to progress with the companions, I'm now their leader after having un-were-wolfed myself (I didn't fancy having my soul to be the plaything of a god).

I've decided that being an ass is the thing to do in skyrim so between bashing skulls to increase my dragon born powers I'm now on a murder spree with the brotherhood. I'm sure the greybeards would disapprove but they'll never find out stuck in that mountain top hidey-hole.

[Kiro]

Imperials. I was looking at the game from a historical rather than hollywood perspective; rebels are bad, bad, bad people.

For the Empire!

[TheConverter15]

@ Kiro: I guess you never watched Star Wars then I t is extremely hard to draw the line between good guy/bad guy in this game which allows for the player to play that side without them definitively seeing themselves as "good"/"bad"

[kyle3216]

you know the empire is the best hope for skyrim if ulfric has a problem with the white gold concordant he should taking the fight to the thalmor

[VanHel]

My take is that Talos actually BECAME a god and because of this the Thalmor are not just banning his worship, but actively trying to kill him. While I'm all for deicide, humanity needs its own god. Personally I went with the Stormcloaks because the Mede dynasty was weak and really needed to fail.

[stormblade]

Stormcloaks of course. Simply because skyrim rebelling against the same Empire their god made was too hilarious to not do. (and imerials are a bunch of collaborators and no good spineless curs who are hypocrats as well, and they tried to kill me)
Didn't like Ulfric much though and still hate the game because it didn't allow me to kill him randomly.
...
One could actually do that sort of thing in Morrowind. (gumble mummbel grumble)

[Col. Dash]

I side with the Storm Cloaks, for no other reason than I dont like the High elves(I play a wood elf witch hunter, getting the random Meridia Dawnbreaker quest was icing on the cake) and so I side with anyone against them...... oh wait Ulfric is following Thalmo-------....

[Voss]

Meridia's quest isn't random. The beacon's location is semi-random, and you can find it by accident, but once you are level appropriate you can just go to the upper part of the shrine and she'll give you the quest to find the beacon.

[osgathian]

i choose the imperials. even though i agree with the reason the stormclocks are doing what they are it does not need to be solved that way. also ulfric is only doing it because he want power i remember being told by someone in game that everyone still had a little shrine of talos and the stormclocks just made the imperials go hard on the nords.