Star wars: The old republic

[Voss]

Yes, but the Sorcerer no longer has a melee spec - previously you could build a reasonable single-saber melee-force hybrid character by investing mostly in the shared skill tree, with the remainder in Lightning. Then they completely changed the focus of the shared tree, so now the Sorcerer's lightsaber is essentially a blaster bolt bat/stat stick. Basically, I wanted Count Dooku(decent one-handed saber duelist, some force powers), and now I can't have that.

Ah, well- you had said Inquisitor above, so I thought it was worth pointing out. Personally, I'm happier with the classes and advanced classes being distinct concepts, so the divide between juggernaut, marauder, sorcerer and assassin pleases me.

And when I use the term "grace period", I'm not talking about early access, that's early access. Originally, the community manager chap stated that those who had early access would be given a few days after the 20th before they would have to put in their product key, to allow for physical boxed preorders to arrive through the post. They've now decided that they're not doing that afterall, so if launch arrives and your game doesn't, you're locked out until it does.

Interesting, never saw that one, but I can completely understand the reasoning behind not doing it. Its fairly rife for chicanery and exploitation in quite a few ways, both for lost, stolen and 'lost' codes, as well as gold farming type shenanigans from people who preorder, but never register the game copy, leaving an effectively clean electronic trail (since preorder codes and product codes need never interact).

[AmKhaibitu]

Product codes are for verifying cds/dvds- its just matching 'serial numbers' that are encoded on the disc against a master list of codes that were checked off at the shipping facility, and 'locking' it to whoever installs it first so the same cd can't be passed around for multiple installs. I'm sure there will be one when the actual game shows up, but I don't think it matters much. All they want is the initial cash and to get you on a subscription plan. The physical discs are pretty much irrelevant to playing the game, just a convient way around download times, and as physical advertisements in stores.

Honestly, if you never install the game off the discs (which if you download the client for early access, you won't), the product code may never come up. The preorder code should give you early access, unlock the 30 days of initial time on the 20th (both of these should be cancelled if you return the game), and you'll be prompted to set up a subscription and told you won't be charged until your initial 30 days are up.

I suppose there is a small chance we'll have to do something with discs, product codes and the like on the 20th, but really with all the relevant stuff happening online, and current technology, such a thing is completely unnecessary.

This is quite simply incorrect.
Product keys have no connection whatsoever with the product media.
You could use the exact same DVDs to install on as many systems as you like, it won't make any difference to the game itself.

All that matters is the product key is associated with your account, you don't even need to touch a physical copy, that's purely for the convenience of not having to download everything.

[Yodhrin]

Ah, well- you had said Inquisitor above, so I thought it was worth pointing out. Personally, I'm happier with the classes and advanced classes being distinct concepts, so the divide between juggernaut, marauder, sorcerer and assassin pleases me.


Interesting, never saw that one, but I can completely understand the reasoning behind not doing it. Its fairly rife for chicanery and exploitation in quite a few ways, both for lost, stolen and 'lost' codes, as well as gold farming type shenanigans from people who preorder, but never register the game copy, leaving an effectively clean electronic trail (since preorder codes and product codes need never interact).

Meh, see, I can understand distinct classes in a themepark-style MMO, to that I have no objection, but I don't think that means you must limit each class to one weapon. It doesn't even make sense from a balance perspective, since a Marauder or Assassin using a one-handed saber would still be less than optimal even if Bioware allowed you to use the class specials. The only real argument I've seen for it is identification in PvP, but considering how measured the pace of combat is in SWTOR, that makes no sense either - you could quite easily tell what you're facing by which opener they used on you, and still have plenty of time to respond and win. I also think it's a little insulting to assume that players are so daft that they require such stringent limits just to function in PvP.

As for the early access issue, it's less whether or not they're offering it than it's the community manager, in forum posts and tweets, stated unequivocally that there would be one, back in August. Based on that statement, a lot of people ordered physical copies, or collector editions - those people are now entirely at the mercy of the retailer and their local post. Not only that, for those outside the "official" launch territories, Aussies and so forth, it may well take a week to arrive regardless of anything else. When you also factor in that, in the same post they said "no grace period", they announced that orders on EA's Origin service would get their product key emailed out on the 16th, and it looks very much like EA decided they weren't making enough Origin sales, so decided to see if they could push people into cancelling their preorders with retailers.

[Voss]

Meh, see, I can understand distinct classes in a themepark-style MMO, to that I have no objection, but I don't think that means you must limit each class to one weapon. It doesn't even make sense from a balance perspective, since a Marauder or Assassin using a one-handed saber would still be less than optimal even if Bioware allowed you to use the class specials. The only real argument I've seen for it is identification in PvP, but considering how measured the pace of combat is in SWTOR, that makes no sense either - you could quite easily tell what you're facing by which opener they used on you, and still have plenty of time to respond and win. I also think it's a little insulting to assume that players are so daft that they require such stringent limits just to function in PvP.

Eh. I think its a fairly trivial visual thing, personally. But its also in some ways the result of a different approach to class design than what is traditional. Instead of the class being all encompassing (as it was in the early days of D&D, for example, where the choice was Fighting Man, Thief, Cleric and Magic-User, and all those things had entirely exclusive abilities), the classes in TOR are merely labels. All sith, for example are sith. The classes and advanced classes are just convenient marketing tags for a particular approach to combat, and they share a pool of general sith abilities (for example, fighting with a lightsaber and using the force, as opposed to a bounty hunter or agent who don't do either of those things). The advance classes are where they specialize in specific things- specific types of lightsaber combat and how they use the force.

So, instead of picking a class and then picking a suite of abilities, you pick a package of abilities and that determines the fairly trivial tag after your name (juggernaut, sorcerer or whatever). Its an interesting approach to class design. It doesn't really have much to do with balance, but rather with providing a variety of experiences based on the choice of class and advanced class. I think its rather necessary given how few classes they chose to go with (and how they are mirrored across faction)


@AmKhabitu- yes, yes. As I said before, I was wrong earlier. Well spotted.

[AmKhaibitu]

@AmKhabitu- yes, yes. As I said before, I was wrong earlier. Well spotted.

Just making sure nobody gets confused.

While it would be nice if we could put in a cd or dvd and have that specific one identified for the purposes of software license, that goes against the mass production needed to make them viable.

Yes there are some identifiers for the media itself, but it's just not cost effective to program for values that you have no control over.
It's so much easier to generate a series of codes and include them with the packaging.
This is why we've been doing this since at least the early 90s.

A lot of people don't understand that these days pre-order codes are completely different entities and that you're required to redeem them, such as in the case of Early Access for The Old Republic.
Just simply pre-ordering does nothing other than guaranteeing you a copy

The stores of course like pre-orders as it makes it easier to plan for how much stock they'll need, which is why we get incentives.

In this case they wanted earlier pre-orders so they offered a time reliant incentive.
It's not up to them to grant it if people can't follow the directions.

Still not sure why they dropped the grace period, if anything it feels like they're pushing for more Origin sales.
If you buy with Origin, you get your keys earlier than if you order directly from a store. Well in theory, already got mine

[paspinall]

Nope. Call me when I can play a Sith-hybrid race Inquisitor who uses a one-handed lightaber,

but you can, you just dont use the saber that much LOL

There are a few things I'd really like to see- particularly key binding and being able to keep the look of an outfit I actually like (which LotR online does), but I am overall I am very impressed by the game, even in a beta state.

you kind of can, with the mod system.

Anyone who go the CE is apparently day one.

Incorrect, some website was spouting on about that but it doesnt matter what edition you have its purely based on when you redeem your preorder code.

Still not sure why they dropped the grace period, if anything it feels like they're pushing for more Origin sales.

If you buy with Origin, you get your keys earlier than if you order directly from a store. Well in theory, already got mine

Actually if you are in the EU then all retailers are allowed to sell them from the 15th, including selling them in store to none preorders.

[eldargal]

Ah well, I redeemed my code three days after pre-orders went up so hopefully it will get me in on the first day anyway. Which would be tomorrow, eep.

Incorrect, some website was spouting on about that but it doesnt matter what edition you have its purely based on when you redeem your preorder code.

[Voss]

Hopefully they'll send out the early access emails soon. I'm a little disappointed they haven't let people know yet. I'd like to plan my otherwise boring week.

[Eumerin]

Meh, see, I can understand distinct classes in a themepark-style MMO, to that I have no objection, but I don't think that means you must limit each class to one weapon.

They're not entirely limited, though you're probably not referring to the same thing. Most of the classes do have access to more than one weapon type, but there's little cross-pollination (except in lightsabers and vibroblades, and a Jedi Knight and Jedi Consular have distinct stats that they're interested in). For instance, the Jedi and Sith advanced classes that use double-bladed lightsabers are also allowed to use staves like the ones used by Grievous's guards. Unfortunately, the more exotic weapons tend to disallow some of your class's basic abilities.

[paspinall]

Hopefully they'll send out the early access emails soon. I'm a little disappointed they haven't let people know yet. I'd like to plan my otherwise boring week.

You wont receive the email until the day you are in.

[nagash66]

I am really looking forward to space combat.

[Voss]

The space combat is amusing diversion, but it isn't exactly deep- its a rail shooter. That said, it can be a nice change of pace and there are quests and rewards, and you do get XP.

You wont receive the email until the day you are in.

Foo. Thats annoying.

[AmKhaibitu]

Foo. Thats annoying.

It may be annoying but it is somewhat necessary.

This allows them to control how many people they let in to the servers at a time and still remain flexible about it.

If the system handles the influx well, then they let more people in.

In other words the date you get in isn't a fixed point but changing.

Personally I'd much rather a more solid experience than one plagued with crashes and glitches.

[nigsylbd]

So the general consensus seems to be that it's a damn good game? Can anyone give me an idea of what the healings like? I love being a healer in mmos.

So far I've been pretty so so about the old republic as I've been burned so many times by mmos but there's a good buzz around this one

[Nicho]

Ive went back to wow :-X

[Voss]

So the general consensus seems to be that it's a damn good game? Can anyone give me an idea of what the healings like? I love being a healer in mmos.

Didn't really try it myself, but there are a lot of options. Almost every class can do a healing spec (except sith warriors and jedi knights), including the jedi/sith casters, bounty hunters, troopers, smugglers and agents. I know there are heal over time effects as well as direct healing, and I believe there are group heals at later levels.

Gamewise, of course the force users heal through the force, most of the others summon droids, use medi-paks (the smuggler for example, slaps on HoT medipacks, which stack, then can be consumed for big heals later) and 'kolto' injections (kolto being the old republic versio of bacta if I'm remembering the Knights of the Old Republic lore correctly).

People will have to go over the speccing options to see whats most efficient, of course, but there does seem to be an option to make a fairly effective hybrid dps/healers (and possibly off tank/healer with Bounty hunters and troopers) that are good at secondary healing roles for groups and raids.

[Xavier]

Anyone get their early access yet?

[Voss]

Nope, but I didn't preorder until the end of November mass beta, so I don't expect to get my invite before Friday (though it may be Saturday). I do know a few people who did however. Naturally they've been a bit busy.

[Yodhrin]

Yeah, I expect to get no more than one day of EA. Frankly, I'd have preferred the standard free for all with login queues and so on; it's a huge mess for the first day or so, but after that it tends to settle in - I'd rather wait an hour to play than several days.

[Liber]

Ive went back to wow :-X

Good god man, why?

Let it die! Just let it die...

Spent 3 years of my life absorbed in that world, so granted it used to be great...but Blizzard seems intent on destroying their creation, so i say let them and good riddance. I quit right after Cata came out, best decision i ever made next to quitting cigarettes lol.


Anyways, gonna do some research on this SWOTR, which i had completely written off as a failure because of past experience with that star wars mmo and others that self destructed, so naturally i figured this would also 'go down like a lead zeppelin' (infinite kudos to anyone who can say who i'm quoting, without looking it up of course! :).

But after seeing this extremely positive response from my fellow Warseerites, I will allow a glimmer of hope to warm my geeky soul...after all like so many others...Star Wars was my first love :O