X Legion Tournaments 2012 Sign-up Thread!

[Malchek]

I'm pleased to announce James French has signed up for the tournament glad to have you along! There are now only 5 tickets remaining....

[Malchek]

I'm pleased to announce Ben Salmon has signed up for the 1750 singles tournament in February there are now only 4 tickets remaining!!!!

Mal

[Kaelarr]

Hey rob, what's your take on non shooting abilities in the shooting phase and open topped vehicles? The new faq's say you can't use a fire point to draw line of sight for anything other then a shooting attack, so can you do it for an open topped vehicle?

[Lord Cook]

Silly new FAQs. Some fool determined that an entire platoon counts as one unit for the purposes of Dawn of War.

"Ah, I see you've deployed your three starting units. I'll just deploy my ten..."

[Malchek]

Hey rob, what's your take on non shooting abilities in the shooting phase and open topped vehicles? The new faq's say you can't use a fire point to draw line of sight for anything other then a shooting attack, so can you do it for an open topped vehicle?

HI there, now I don't want to make a mistake on this one so this is by no means binding at the moment as I'll have to go away and look at it in more detail however, from a cursory reading the is the rule you're referring to:

'Q: Can models embarked upon a vehicle use its fire
points to draw line of sight to a unit to use special
rules or wargear (other than shooting)? (p66)
A: No.'

Because this is actually countermanded by:

'Psykers
Q: Can a model use a psychic power that is not a
Psychic Shooting Attack if it is embarked in a transport
vehicle? (p50)
A: Yes. If the power requires line of sight, this is still
worked out from the vehicle’s fire points (this will
count as one model shooting through that fire point if
the power is used in the Shooting phase).
If the psychic power does not require line of sight and
has a range or an area of effect that is normally
measured from the model using it, these are measured
from the vehicle’s hull, as explained in the Embarking
section on page 66.'

If the non-shooting ability is something other than a psychic issue can you give me an example of what you mean please?

I'm thinking maybe a big mek's forcefield? Is this the sort of thing you mean?

Cheers

Rob

[Mr Sinister]

What Mr. Taylor really means is 'Can Anrakyr take over an opponent's vehicle whilst on his Command barge?'

[TAU AIR CASTE]

Yup I was going to ask the same question. Typical set of inconsistent FAQ's which contradict the rule book and other FAQ's.

[kenny3760]

To be fair guys, they are trying to sort out the madness of a Mat Ward rule, give them a break. And IMO Anrakyr can shove it and go get his own vehicles.

[canyoneromikos]

The actual question being asked is the following....

Does an open topped vehicle have fire points and so is covered by:

'Q: Can models embarked upon a vehicle use its fire
points to draw line of sight to a unit to use special
rules or wargear (other than shooting)? (p66)
A: No.'

or is open topped vehicle a complete other rule and not covered by the above point.

This is basically covering..... cant think of many other open topped transports!

Big Meks in a battle wagon,
Anrakr in a command barge,

etc etc

[Malchek]

Hi guys thankyou for clarifying

Now I don't like to be too controversial and usually follow GW rulings but I really think this is a very very very odd one!? As far as I'm concerned as with the Anrakr example it's an ability that requires line of sight, as you can gain line of sight from an open topped vehicle then yes you can do it.

Incidentally, this would mean that in my opinion it should be able to be used from the fire point of an enclosed vehicle as well.

Same goes for a big mek's custom forcefield I've never had a problem with it working from within a vehicle be it open topped or not!?

Apologies if this upsets anyone but I think the ruling is stupid and its only for 6 months - if anyone would like to make a counter argument please feel free as I'm open to being persuaded!

Hope this helps (malchek holds his breath awaiting the storm of outrage.... lol)

Mal

[canyoneromikos]

Hi guys thankyou for clarifying

Now I don't like to be too controversial and usually follow GW rulings but I really think this is a very very very odd one!? As far as I'm concerned as with the Anrakr example it's an ability that requires line of sight, as you can gain line of sight from an open topped vehicle then yes you can do it.

Incidentally, this would mean that in my opinion it should be able to be used from the fire point of an enclosed vehicle as well.

Same goes for a big mek's custom forcefield I've never had a problem with it working from within a vehicle be it open topped or not!?

Apologies if this upsets anyone but I think the ruling is stupid and its only for 6 months - if anyone would like to make a counter argument please feel free as I'm open to being persuaded!

Hope this helps (malchek holds his breath awaiting the storm of outrage.... lol)

Mal

'Q: Can models embarked upon a vehicle use its fire
points to draw line of sight to a unit to use special
rules or wargear (other than shooting)? (p66)
A: No.'

so were ignoring the above completely, or that it just doesnt apply to open topped vehicles?

[kenny3760]

Nae luck with this Rob, it's a complete GW mess.

[TAU AIR CASTE]

Imo it's one of the dumbest rulings they have made, you need los to use a certain ability or power, the vehicle you are in has a fire point (somewhere to draw los from) or is open topped and has los to everything..... and they make a FAQ to suggest that you cannot do this.

The other one that was odd imo was the whole psychic shooting attacks and rolling to hit, it was like they flipped a coing to decide which ones have to roll to hit and which one don't need to! I will leave it there before this turns into a rules discussion

[Kaelarr]

Im guessing that its not appying to open topped vehicles Mikos. TBH I dont mind either way its ruled so long as I know in advance! Sorry for not being as clear as I could have been in asking the initial question!

[Lord Cook]

Careful, it's also stupid that (for example) furious charge doesn't work in combination with hunting lances, but the FAQ hath spoken. Precedents can be... controversial.

[Malchek]

Careful, it's also stupid that (for example) furious charge doesn't work in combination with hunting lances, but the FAQ hath spoken. Precedents can be... controversial.

Yeah I know that's why I dislike contradicting GW rulings - however, I'm willing to do so when it really doesn't make sense and when doing so does not present an overwhelming advantage/disadvantage!

Personally I say we ignore the faq about using special abilities/wargear from open and closed vehicles - like I said if anyone has any problem with this please let me know as I'm open to discussion!

However, I wont be making a habit of it! lol

Mal

[canyoneromikos]

Yeah I know that's why I dislike contradicting GW rulings - however, I'm willing to do so when it really doesn't make sense and when doing so does not present an overwhelming advantage/disadvantage!

Personally I say we ignore the faq about using special abilities/wargear from open and closed vehicles - like I said if anyone has any problem with this please let me know as I'm open to discussion!

However, I wont be making a habit of it! lol

Mal

Ok Mal Just make sure everyone knows were just ignoring that single FAQ. It effects certain armies more than other (Blood angels sang priests for example)

[Kaelarr]

It doesnt effect them at all as the sang priest doesnt need line of sight

[canyoneromikos]

It doesnt effect them at all as the sang priest doesnt need line of sight

and you decided not to tell us in the monster facebook thread? *shakes fist*

[Madmacmcmad]

Right basically. From reading the rulebook rather than all of these silly faqs I believe the wording for open topped vehicles is that you can use los from any part of the vehicle etc to shoot a weapon or something along those lines (dont have rulebook in front of me). This is the exact same wording as shooting from fire points. Hence why people are assuming this faq applies to open topped vehicles. As much as I would love it to work, I don't think it does


Just my opinion.