Dark Elf Wishlist

[Glenn87]

Checking trough my old DE army books, and seeing rumour after rumour comming about WoC, Dwarfs and VC, I tought it might be a good idea starting a thread about what we want in the new Dark Elf Army Book.
Both Fluff-wise and Rules wise.

I'll start off, with one of the small details wich annoys me about our book.
Kouran of the Black Guard, and Tullaris of Har Ganeth.

Both are 'special Character', and unit champion Upgrades. How come Druchii only get this, while the High Elves get Korhil and Caradryan as full hero-type characters.

I'd LOVE to see them with a Masters' (basic hero) stats, and the following things:

175 points
Kouran: Wields the Crimson Death, and wears his Armour of Grief.
Special Rules: Warrior Elite (re-roll failed rolls to hit), eternal Hatred, Unbreakable/stubborn (if Kouran joins a unit, it becomes unbreakable/stubborn).

195 points
Tullaris: Wields the Blade of Har Ganeth and wears heavy armour.
Special Rules: Eternal Hatred, Killing Blow, (possibly Khainite), cause fear, and his rule that if he kills an enemy in a challenge, he gets +D3 combat resolution on top of the wounds he did.

Also, fluff-wise, I'd like to see the names of our Lord and Hero characters chanced. Dreadlord becomes Drachau (rules of the cities) and Masters could possibly become either Highborn or Vaulkhar.


Possibly change the 'War Hydra' entry to 'Tamed Monster' entry, giving you the choice between Hydra's, Manticore's and other monsters. As the Druchii have acces to many monsters, not just Hydra's.



Anyone else has a Druchii Wishlist?? (apart from nerf their power and balance their book...if you say this, at least tell us WHAT you want to chance in order to get this)

[calnen]

As a non-dark-elf player, the main thing I'd like to see is 225 or 250-point Hydras.

[Grocklock]

Id like to see slaves in the armies. In the fluff they talk about how they release slaves on the field of battle. Shoot them down to creat differcult terrain. Id like them to field slaves on the field of battle.

[Haravikk]

Id like to see slaves in the armies. In the fluff they talk about how they release slaves on the field of battle. Shoot them down to creat differcult terrain. Id like them to field slaves on the field of battle.

This for me as well, so long as they keep it different from skavenslaves; nothing in large masses but somehow still useful to the army.

Otherwise; plastic Witch Elves. I gave up on my Witch Elf heavy army idea because they're just so damned expensive in metal for models that aren't really all that good, and the change to Finecast hasn't made me change my mind. There are some okay options from other sources, but some of them (even the ones in plastic) somehow work out more expensive!

[Rosstifer]

No access to Shadow to make 90% o f Dark Elf players actually use their damn army.
Malekith made a heck of a lot more bad@$$.
Dark Magic needs a few tweaks.
Pendant gone.
If Shadow goes, Corsairs could drop a point. Hydra maybe 10-15pts more expensive, but honestly, they aren't that broken.

New Witch Elf, Blackguard, Dark Rider, Excutioner plastic models.
Excecutioners buffed a little.
20 max cap on Blackguard gone.
Cold One Knights 24-25pts
Dark Riders like, 5pts cheaper.
Bolt Throwers reworked.
Manticore much cheaper.

Might think of more later.


I don't really think they need that much adding. One or two new units, but tbh they already have a good range of troop types.

[Xzazzarai]

No access to Shadow to make 90% o f Dark Elf players actually use their damn army.
Malekith made a heck of a lot more bad@$$.
Dark Magic needs a few tweaks.
Pendant gone.
If Shadow goes, Corsairs could drop a point. Hydra maybe 10-15pts more expensive, but honestly, they aren't that broken.

New Witch Elf, Blackguard, Dark Rider, Excutioner plastic models.
Excecutioners buffed a little.
20 max cap on Blackguard gone.
Cold One Knights 24-25pts
Dark Riders like, 5pts cheaper.
Bolt Throwers reworked.
Manticore much cheaper.

Might think of more later.


I don't really think they need that much adding. One or two new units, but tbh they already have a good range of troop types.

Well, first of all: With the right army composition, I think that Death is the ultimate tool in a Dark Elf army.
I'm not saying that Shadow is bad - it's ****** good indeed!
But Death... it's just too good if you're a bit creative! =)

Otherwise i pretty much agree with you!
Though, I don't think that the Pendant needs to go. The problem is when it's combined with stubborn - THAT'S broken!
The item itself is protecting a T3 Elf. There are serveral ways to handle the Pendant!

[Rosstifer]

Well, first of all: With the right army composition, I think that Death is the ultimate tool in a Dark Elf army.
I'm not saying that Shadow is bad - it's ****** good indeed!
But Death... it's just too good if you're a bit creative! =)

Otherwise i pretty much agree with you!
Though, I don't think that the Pendant needs to go. The problem is when it's combined with stubborn - THAT'S broken!
The item itself is protecting a T3 Elf. There are serveral ways to handle the Pendant!

I'm not saying Shadow should go because it's broken, I think it's in the same category as the 3++ Save Chosen in WOC, a crutch that doesn't encourage players to expand their skills, just attempt to solve every problem by 10-11 dicing Mindrazor. A lot of poorer players are winning games they shouldn't be with moves like that. The other Lores DE have access to require a bit of strategy and forethought beyond pushing frenzied Corsairs forward and Mindrazoring. I think that removing Shadow would increase the skills of a lot of players by forcing them to expand their tactics. That sounds a little self righteous, and it is just my opinion.
Your right about the pendant, maybe just limit it too casters? Not sure how to fix that really.

[sulla]

Your right about the pendant, maybe just limit it too casters? Not sure how to fix that really.

Casters only, if they find some way to make fighter characters for elves in general viable, otherwise 'on fott, only' would be a good enough fix IMO. Limiting the pendant to infantry characters reduces it's usefulness. Either the DE general uses part of his magic allowance on magic armour, reducing his offensive output, or he limits himself to a mediocre armour save putting him at risk from low strength rank and file. Also limits it's sphere of influence if combined with the stubborn helm.

[Valnir]

I'd like to see Heroes and Lords having the choice to purchase the Khainite ability even if it's not at an optimized cost.
The Heroes that got turned into champion upgrades turn them back to proper heroes.
T4 Characters
Dark magic reverted back to the +1 to casting instead of the unlimited dice
Blackguard 20 cap removed
Bolt throwers' multishot turned into the small template and functions exactly like a mortar
Mounted monsters need to be reduced drastically or points don't come from character slots (maybe make them black points like assassins)
Hydra increased in points
Dragons to have an un-modified armor save meaning the strength of the attack doesn't change it's 4+ save but anything that ignores armor saves denies it

[Rosstifer]

Bolt throwers' multishot turned into the small template and functions exactly like a mortar

I approve of this idea. .

[TsukeFox]

Slaaaveesss-!!! Slaves carrying the cauldron of Blood (no way those skinny witches can lug that "large target.".

Chimera with monster handlers.

Either bump up the price of spearman or let High & Wood elf armies get 6 point infantry.

Sea serpent with free water terrain/pond-?

As per the trend if other other 8th codexes one caster must take Dark magic.

[chieftainskritchskritch]

Id like to see slaves in the armies

Slaaaveesss-!!!

Noooo! No! No, no, no, no, no!

It really, really, REALLY annoys me when I see this kind of wishlisting coming from Delfs. This has been going on since the Storm of Magic, where the DE community tried to make a concerted push to get slaves into the next DE armybook. DE should never have access to slaves, and this is why:

In order to aquire slaves, the slavers have to set out on long and dangerous voyages, usually across the seas, attack isolated townsteads and transport slaves back home (many of which dont live through the journey). At the end of the day you come home with, what, maybe a few thousand? And a tenth of that goes straight to the Khaine temples? Acquiring slaves is something that takes a lot of planning and resources to do, so why the hell would you waste all your effort by having them butchered on the battlefield? The Delf slaves are very, very valuable, hard to aquire, and are a finite resource.

And before you start with "but, but, but, Skaven!!!", the reason the Skaven have slaves is because when one clan subjugates another (something that happens daily, unlike the slave-raids of the DElfs which can take months to complete) there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of enslaved rats to hand. Hundreds of thousands. Every day. The Skaven empire is so overrun with slave labour that they regularly eat slaves just to keep the numbers down. This justifies why they are used on the battlefield - Skavenslaves arent valuable, they arent hard to aquire and there are a myriad of ways to get more. There just isnt true for the DElves.

No slaves in the new DElf book.

/rant.

EDIT: Also get rid of the Pendant and make Hydras 250pts, as was stated earlier.

[Valnir]

Noooo! No! No, no, no, no, no!
.......


/rant.

EDIT: Also get rid of the Pendant and make Hydras 250pts, as was stated earlier.

I'm not a fan of slaves but wow, talk about having a fit over something so trivial

[TsukeFox]

I'm not a fan of slaves but wow, talk about having a fit over something so trivial

But does it not make sense to have slaves for use of battlefield sacerfice-?
And less sense that the stabby dagger kill off dark elves who already have a limited population-?

[Valnir]

But does it not make sense to have slaves for use of battlefield sacerfice-?
And less sense that the stabby dagger kill off dark elves who already have a limited population-?

I was talking about the rant from chieftainskritchskritch

[Mr. Ultra]

I'm not a fan of slaves but wow, talk about having a fit over something so trivial

Hey, we are wargamers after all (and nazis, according to Greek press).

I'm far more concerned about models that about rules, I hope we can see new Witches models, including Hellebron and a new Morathi.

[peukestas]

Hey, we are wargamers after all (and nazis, according to Greek press).

That is a serious accusation,I live in Greece, I play WHFB, I read the newspapers and I haven't red any article accusing wargamers as nazis. Perhaps you've read it indeed in some gossip magazine, but please use the words 'gossip magazine' not 'the Greek press'.
Thanks.

[Danny_D14]

Noooo! No! No, no, no, no, no!

It really, really, REALLY annoys me when I see this kind of wishlisting coming from Delfs. This has been going on since the Storm of Magic, where the DE community tried to make a concerted push to get slaves into the next DE armybook. DE should never have access to slaves, and this is why:

In order to aquire slaves, the slavers have to set out on long and dangerous voyages, usually across the seas, attack isolated townsteads and transport slaves back home (many of which dont live through the journey). At the end of the day you come home with, what, maybe a few thousand? And a tenth of that goes straight to the Khaine temples? Acquiring slaves is something that takes a lot of planning and resources to do, so why the hell would you waste all your effort by having them butchered on the battlefield? The Delf slaves are very, very valuable, hard to aquire, and are a finite resource.

And before you start with "but, but, but, Skaven!!!", the reason the Skaven have slaves is because when one clan subjugates another (something that happens daily, unlike the slave-raids of the DElfs which can take months to complete) there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of enslaved rats to hand. Hundreds of thousands. Every day. The Skaven empire is so overrun with slave labour that they regularly eat slaves just to keep the numbers down. This justifies why they are used on the battlefield - Skavenslaves arent valuable, they arent hard to aquire and there are a myriad of ways to get more. There just isnt true for the DElves.

No slaves in the new DElf book.

/rant.

EDIT: Also get rid of the Pendant and make Hydras 250pts, as was stated earlier.

From a business perspective I'd sacrifice 1,000 slaves on the battlefield to grant my own even more valuable warriors some extra safety. These valuable warriors in the end of the day are what allow me to beat my enemy and take them as slaves, so for an initial investment of 1,000 slaves to gain perhaps 4,000 or more? That's not just business sense, that's Druchii business sense.

Although I do agree slaves would most likely be used on a battlefield if the raiders were caught with them after a raid. I don't imagine most DE cities using them in normal pitched battles. Then again I could see some cities choosing to do so for my above reason. Yes I see slaves as a valuable resource but they're pitiful slaves at end of the day and as an arrogant sadistic dark elf I wouldn't really care for them, they're mongrels to me.

My own wishlist would be:

*Balanced down power level for 8th (pendent,hydra,sacrificial dagger, shadow lore fix).
*Access to chimeras and cockatrice without a SoBinding.
*Khainite demons.
*Bring back cult of slaanesh.
*I'd like their fluff to indicate possible civil wars between the cults and cities as it would be a nice change to their fluff from being constantly beaten at attempts on Ulthuan and fairly non spectacular raids on other coastal realms.
*I'd also add more character to the land of Naggaroth itself by adding in a Lizardmen jungle growing ever northward, beastmen and fimir pockets throughout the land that are growing. Demon portals opening up regularly in the land due to the amount of dark magic flowing through it, this in turn waking up the dead perhaps getting controlled by an ambitious vampire? Really all I want is the Dark Elves live in a very harsh and dangerous land due to their own nature and the nature around them.

[Glenn87]

*Khainite demons.
*Bring back cult of slaanesh.

I love the CoS idea.
Dislike the Khainite Deamon idea...why? because Khainites don't use deamons. They use very soft ways of magic, and fuel dark magic because of their sacrifices. But they worship Khaine as their own god, they'll never summon Chaos Deamons (because all deamons ARE chaos deamons) to their cause.

Cult of Slaanesh on the other hand, DO summon Deamonettes (and other things) to aid them...
Altough I would like to see Cult of Slaanesh, I'd want it in a COMPLETE different way then with Storm of Chaos. No WoC use, rare use of deamonettes, possibly Mark and Lore of Slaanesh, only Sorceress characters, ...and even then I doubt it. No use in needing another army book (wich also needs to be redone right now) to fully use this one. That's good for expansion book, but not for a real army book.

[Gooner]

Having play DE for a very long time and also playing against them more recently with my OK I have some basic ideas of what needs to be done.

- Hydra needs to be 225 points, we get a bonus of the hatred and handles because we tame them and they are something special to us in a way. I also agree that you should buy beastmasters as a rare choice for XX points, then choose from a group of different monsters to bring. This would also alow for things like maticore, chimera, hydra, etc and then if you wanted to use a different model you just choose the one with the closest stat line you think fits.

- Black guard are really powerful, even with the unit cap they are still amazing. I know the unit cap has to be lifted, but I feel that they should be more of an anvil unit and the execs the hammer. Give them 1 attack each, but give them full plate. leave stubborn and maybe give eternal hatred to Execs?

- Execs need to be buffed, right now they just are nothing compared to BG. Give them something like maybe Eternal Hatred from BG. They should be the hammer, but they are so slow. Maybe their weapons are forged of light metal , or they are so used to using them they ignore GW rules like HE. I know this is the same as HE but somthing needs to be done...

- Magic items need to be changed. I recently played a game against a DE player who has two chars on pegs that where almost unkillable. One had pendant and the other had cloak , both had 1+ saves. He placed them infront of two of my units and basically said charge him or dont do anything. Then proceeded to focus my other units down until he could combo charge my other two. Was incredibly unfun and really bothered me. As DE we should have stuf that does damage or causes magic to be insane, BUT have drawbacks. Right now there is no drawbacks.

- Bolt throwers need to be at most 50 points. Keep them how they are, maybe be BS5

The rest of the army is fine, Dreadlords are a biot expesive and couldron should be rare as right now it is a auto include BSB. Let me use my converted master BSB !!!! Shave a few points here and there from knights , dark riders, corairs and give WE a 6+ ward save