Dark Elf Wishlist

[sulla]

I honestly would rather see the rules for the bolt-thrower improved, something like multiple rank pentration for both firing versions. I just cant see how to justify it as a template, unless it's a ball of spring-loaded arrows that they chuck at the enemy...but that doesn't sound very elvish!

Multishot penetrating ranks was also something they had in earlier editions. It would be quite easy to adjust it to about the same mediocre killing power as a stone thrower (which only does about 6 wounds to average t3 5+as troops anyway).

I'm far more keen for them to improve the single shot, which pales in comparison to the more accurate, more powerful cannon. d6 wounds at a minimum is needed IMO to make them a worthwhile choice as a monster killer or even for shooting monsterous infantry/cav.

That or just give every army in the game access to cannons and then we'll truly see if they are too powerful or not...

[BigbyWolf]

Multishot penetrating ranks was also something they had in earlier editions. It would be quite easy to adjust it to about the same mediocre killing power as a stone thrower (which only does about 6 wounds to average t3 5+as troops anyway).

I'm far more keen for them to improve the single shot, which pales in comparison to the more accurate, more powerful cannon. d6 wounds at a minimum is needed IMO to make them a worthwhile choice as a monster killer or even for shooting monsterous infantry/cav.

That or just give every army in the game access to cannons and then we'll truly see if they are too powerful or not...

Cannonhammer!

But yes, in general Elvish Bolt Throwers need to improve (I'm perfectly happy with my Goblin ones). I'd just like to see them improve, while remaining true to their current firing abilities. Would a general raise in strength and/or boost to number of wounds be enough for the single shot option?

[theunwantedbeing]

250pt hydra
The SoM one is 225, the DE one is better, so should be more points, also make the handlers killable again.

9pt spearmen
High elf spearmen are 9pts each, dark elves should also be 9pts each, they are both elves so should both cost the same

No more throwing as many dice as they want at a spell, it's broken and unfair.
Also no more access to the lore of shadow either.

Nerf the Dagger, make it unusable if you failed to reach the casting value initially.
Nerf the Pendant by making it an arcane item and change the wording to state "must roll under the strength of the enemy attack", also make it 50pts.
Nerf the ring of Hotek, make it 50pts and drop the range to 6".
Make assassins use up character allowance again.
Make them always have to persue a fleeing enemy.
Remove the ASF banner, it's broken and filthy.

I'm sure there are other things the dark elves need to have nerfing them, those broken filthy elveses.........

/sarcasm

Seriously though.
Pendant needs to be roll under the strength of the hit
Executionairs need special Draichs that add the strength bonus, but don't cause ASL
The size cap on Black guard needs to go but they can be moved back to the rare slot
Assassins should get killing blow as a standard effect, not poison
Beastmasters need to be able to work with other monsters, also should work like normal handlers and you should be allowed to purchase an extra beastmaster
The Cauldren needs to be a rare slot, as well as being deployable within a unit of Khainite troops
Masters need a Khainite upgrade
Remove the unlimited dice per spell attempt rule, re-instate the +1 bonus to cast
Make the mage roll to hit a model when using the dagger
Bump the hydra to 200pts but give it a 6th wound
Make cold ones count as monsterous cavalry for a +5pts/model boost(no change for chariots as they don't benefit at all by this)
Chariots become a 2 for 1 special slot
Bring back hatred for mounts as part of the army special rules

Not sure what bolt throwers need, perhaps move them to a special slot.

[Shadowsinner]

witch elves get a 6 ward like savage orcs. this becomes a 4+ if boosted by cauldron

executioners get 2 attacks each and possibly a point cheaper

shadowblade gets the rune of khaine making him worth his points

lokhir fellheart drops about 20-30 points

blackguard become a normal 5+ unit size

cold one knights either get cheaper or get 2 attacks each for a point or two more

the cauldron is a rare unit again

the hydra costs 220-250... but either has 3+ regen or gets extra attacks for each wound dealt to it. it loses hatred as a result

harpies get the storm of magic upgrades

bolt throwers run for 75-90 points a model and have either BS 5 to all shots OR BS4 to all shots with rerolls to hit to demonstrate the volley fire nature

as much as I love my shadow, I foresee that either the highest level caster or one caster MUST choose lore of dark magic.

new spells as follows

attribute: Soul Sacrifice (sac dagger is removed from book) after a selected spell has been rolled for but before determining the total result or before your opponent chooses to dispel, remove one model from the unit he is with as a casualty and roll a d6. On a 1-3 nothing happens On the roll of a 4+ the casting player may roll an additional d6 and add the result to the total casting value of the spell. In addition if 6 is rolled, the dark elf player receives additional power dice that only he may use equal to half of his casting level rounded up. if these extra dice are not used then he suffers a s4 hit for each

sig spell: Chillwind- same as current but with extra buffs to make it 2d6 s4 and 2d6 s5

spell 1. Augment- unit within 18 gets eternal hatred and armor piercing

spell 2. curse of khaine- hex- unit in 18 rerolls all successful armor saves, hits and wounds

spell 3. word of pain (as is)

spell 4. bladewind. 3d6 ws4 s4 close combat hits which may be cast into a unit in close combat. if the casters unit is engaged with an enemy unit, then only that unit may be the target

spell 5. soul stealer. as is but for boosted value becomes range 15 and s3

black horror. small direct damage template which can be boosted to big. unit takes strength test as normal and afterward rolls a d3. they take an immediate panic check at their highest leadership value minus the result rolled.

[Druchii Monkey]

Slaaaveesss-!!! Slaves carrying the cauldron of Blood (no way those skinny witches can lug that "large target.".

Why do we need slaves when we can manipulate warriors of chaos to be our battle fodder - see Defenders Of Ulthuan book...

We would not let such puny wretches take the field of battle.. spearmen may also die by the droves.. why should we care about them as a dark elf.. and why should i field an inferior force?

cold one knights either get cheaper or get 2 attacks each for a point or two more

All excellent suggestions in general Shadowsinner.

Only slight alteration would be for cold one knights. Change stupidity to frenzy affecting both mount and rider for 3 extra points.

Also give Hags an alternative to Witchbrew - "Bloodbrew" which re-induces frenzy in units that have lost it or causes frenzy in any unit they are in.

Also as a Dark Elf player i particularly like this suggestion:

as much as I love my shadow, I foresee that either the highest level caster or one caster MUST choose lore of dark magic.

[DaemonReign]

I face DE alot.

- Hydra. Not as broken as most would have it IMO. Roughly 25pts to cheap I'd say. Then again, if the craptacular entry in the SoM book is any indication then yes of course it should be at least 250pts - and a fairly bad pick as a consequence.

- The "infinite Power Dice per spell" + Sacrifical Dagger is a bit OTT in 8th. I'm pretty sure that but will be revamped.

- Pendant needs to cost a bit more. 50pts perhaps.
- Hotek is just fine after the latest Errata-amendments (was totally broken prior to this, especially in 7th).

- I'm surpriced to see that nobody seems to be mentioning that RepCrossBowMen probably need to go up a point or two in cost.

- Similarly Executioners and Corsairs need to go down a notch in cost.

- Unlike most, it seems, I acknowledge that the size-cap for Blackguard is the the one things in 8th that doesn't make them totally broken (as they were in 7th) and while I can understand that it's a 'brave new world' playing them now they still have their niche and can still be very usefull. If the unit-size cap goes they need to lose like half of that big pile of special rules they got.

- Dark Riders cheaper, Cold Ones too probably. Can't say whether I think SpearElves are priced correctly or not - I don't have any other Elves to compare too.

- Definately no T4 for anyone.

- Mantichore with Handler's is a nice idea!

- Harpies need a little buff (SoM Upgrades?)

- BoltThrower reworked/dropped in cost.

- Regarding the Cauldron. Maybe limit the spam-potential. Probably make the augments it casts Bound Spells. Or something. My opponant never uses more than one - but I've seen lists on the net where it's seemingly abused.. and whether or not it needs it I'm fairly certain it will get an overhaul.

EDIT
By the way, it's just rude to opt for the removal of both PoD and Shadow-access. Once those '12 dice on one spell' is gone, the rest of us can start dispelling Occam's like normal people and everything will be fine. Let's not go overboard with the nerfbat here.

[Chaos Undecided]

It would be cool for Dark Elf beastmasters to be able to bring other monsters to the battlefield its always implied in the storys that they use things other than Hydra but never go into details, agree also that the Hydra could do with a point increase when you compare its effectiveness to those of other army books big monsters.

Black Guard could probably do with having an increased unit max size, maybe to 30 just to take into account the larger average size of units in this edition.

It'd probably make it too much like the OK magic item but maybe the sacrificial dagger should have a chance to backfire on the wielder I dont really see Dark Elves just standing there and letting someone stab them no matter who they might be.

As to the Cauldron a possibly quite fluffy idea would be for it to be able to buff a unit each turn but that buff would vary depending on the amount of kills the target unit had achieved in the previous turn, with Khainite units always counting as having achieved the minimum level required for the lowest buff?

[Druchii Monkey]

One thing to throw into the mix for the wish-listing is that in a new army book sometime in the future we'll probably see a cut down in magic items.

I think they can solve this by merging some of the items.
e.g. Armour of Darkness gives you 1+ armour save and benefits of Ring of Darkness, for combined points of both items.

And they could incorporate some of the others into the spell-casting.
e.g. Sacrificial Dagger becomes a lore attribute for dark magic, instead of an item.

I also think they only need one of either the Pendant of Khaeleth or Black Amulet. I would prefer the Black Amulet to stay, but either way we need at least one form of sorceress pendant/amulet.

They could also consider making the Focus Familiar an upgrade for a sorceress, or do something which i think would be ultra-cool for Dark Elves as follows:

Basically have extended range versions of spells with higher casting cost (like other lores) but with one main difference - rather than extending the range of the spell, you can extend where it is counted as having been cast from, even so it counts as being cast from outside combat - so you get all the focus familiar benefits but rather than as a magic item as a result of a higher casting value?

I'm curious as to why you're against Elves characters having T4? You want our characters to die so easily to RnF?

Regarding the T3/T4 argument i think elves should definitely stay at T3 in general (this is part of the balance) but there is an argument for making Dreadlords T4 - the only T4 Dark Elf at the moment as far as i know is Malekith.

But yes, in general Elvish Bolt Throwers need to improve (I'm perfectly happy with my Goblin ones). I'd just like to see them improve, while remaining true to their current firing abilities. Would a general raise in strength and/or boost to number of wounds be enough for the single shot option?

Regarding the Reaper argument this needs to be beefed up a little. It's small number of wounds is it's vulnerability and i quite like that tactically but i think multi-shot with re-rolls to hit would be a better reflection of it's accuracy. I think beefing this up should focus on multi-shot as it is accuracy over strength which is the Elven way?

By the way, it's just rude to opt for the removal of both PoD and Shadow-access. Once those '12 dice on one spell' is gone, the rest of us can start dispelling Occam's like normal people and everything will be fine. Let's not go overboard with the nerfbat here.

I'd go for making access to shadow harder but continuing to allow loads of dice to be thrown. It is the Dark Elf style to get completely out of control with magic - there has to be some magic buff for their Elvishness.

[DaemonReign]

I'd go for making access to shadow harder but continuing to allow loads of dice to be thrown. It is the Dark Elf style to get completely out of control with magic - there has to be some magic buff for their Elvishness.

I really don't have a problem with your standpoint, personally. Looking at the way 8th Ed 'core-rules' in a general way, however, my un-educated guess would be that the current PoD is hanging much more loose as compared to the basic access to the Shadow Lore.

To be frank I don't really have a problem with either. Dark Elves is a fun army to play against. They are a race of war and all sorts of gruesome hobbies so in my opinion they ought to be among the nastier armies out there.

But in all seriousness, and again not really my opinion as much as a wetted finger in winds of 8th Ed, my gut is telling me that PoD is much more questionable (mechanically speaking) compared to basic Lore Access.

And in all fairness, I think the DE magic phase would have enough punch with only Sacrifical Dagger and Shadow. Being able to restore the very finite power-pool mid-phase is already better even compared to the "Boon of Tzeentch" of the Tzeentch Daemon Lore.

I mention the Tzeentch Daemon Lore here, because there you have a magic phase that really should be on the top of the pile. Fluffwise.

[DaemonReign]

Black Guard could probably do with having an increased unit max size, maybe to 30 just to take into account the larger average size of units in this edition.

Capped at 30 just might be acceptable without an increase in cost or some other nerf - removing the ASF-banner would suffice - but I honestly think that Blackguard - for once - are correctly costed and balanced in 8th Ed currently. Then again I ackowledge that I might feel differently if Dark Elves was actually my army.

[TsukeFox]

Here is the very reason fOr slaves

http://www.tshirthell.com/funny-shir...ets-****-done/

[Danny_D14]

Noooo! No! No, no, no, no, no!

It really, really, REALLY annoys me when I see this kind of wishlisting coming from Delfs. This has been going on since the Storm of Magic, where the DE community tried to make a concerted push to get slaves into the next DE armybook. DE should never have access to slaves, and this is why:

In order to aquire slaves, the slavers have to set out on long and dangerous voyages, usually across the seas, attack isolated townsteads and transport slaves back home (many of which dont live through the journey). At the end of the day you come home with, what, maybe a few thousand? And a tenth of that goes straight to the Khaine temples? Acquiring slaves is something that takes a lot of planning and resources to do, so why the hell would you waste all your effort by having them butchered on the battlefield? The Delf slaves are very, very valuable, hard to aquire, and are a finite resource.

And before you start with "but, but, but, Skaven!!!", the reason the Skaven have slaves is because when one clan subjugates another (something that happens daily, unlike the slave-raids of the DElfs which can take months to complete) there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of enslaved rats to hand. Hundreds of thousands. Every day. The Skaven empire is so overrun with slave labour that they regularly eat slaves just to keep the numbers down. This justifies why they are used on the battlefield - Skavenslaves arent valuable, they arent hard to aquire and there are a myriad of ways to get more. There just isnt true for the DElves.

No slaves in the new DElf book.

/rant.

EDIT: Also get rid of the Pendant and make Hydras 250pts, as was stated earlier.

From a business perspective I'd sacrifice 1,000 slaves on the battlefield to grant my own even more valuable warriors some extra safety. These valuable warriors in the end of the day are what allow me to beat my enemy and take them as slaves, so for an initial investment of 1,000 slaves to gain perhaps 4,000 or more? That's not just business sense, that's Druchii business sense.

Although I do agree slaves would most likely be used on a battlefield if the raiders were caught with them after a raid. I don't imagine most DE cities using them in normal pitched battles. Then again I could see some cities choosing to do so for my above reason. Yes I see slaves as a valuable resource but they're pitiful slaves at end of the day and as an arrogant sadistic dark elf I wouldn't really care for them, they're mongrels to me.

My own wishlist would be:

*Balanced down power level for 8th (pendent,hydra,sacrificial dagger, shadow lore fix).
*Access to chimeras and cockatrice without a SoBinding.
*Khainite demons.
*Bring back cult of slaanesh.
*I'd like their fluff to indicate possible civil wars between the cults and cities as it would be a nice change to their fluff from being constantly beaten at attempts on Ulthuan and fairly non spectacular raids on other coastal realms.
*I'd also add more character to the land of Naggaroth itself by adding in a Lizardmen jungle growing ever northward, beastmen and fimir pockets throughout the land that are growing. Demon portals opening up regularly in the land due to the amount of dark magic flowing through it, this in turn waking up the dead perhaps getting controlled by an ambitious vampire? Really all I want is the Dark Elves live in a very harsh and dangerous land due to their own nature and the nature around them.

[Glenn87]

*Khainite demons.
*Bring back cult of slaanesh.

I love the CoS idea.
Dislike the Khainite Deamon idea...why? because Khainites don't use deamons. They use very soft ways of magic, and fuel dark magic because of their sacrifices. But they worship Khaine as their own god, they'll never summon Chaos Deamons (because all deamons ARE chaos deamons) to their cause.

Cult of Slaanesh on the other hand, DO summon Deamonettes (and other things) to aid them...
Altough I would like to see Cult of Slaanesh, I'd want it in a COMPLETE different way then with Storm of Chaos. No WoC use, rare use of deamonettes, possibly Mark and Lore of Slaanesh, only Sorceress characters, ...and even then I doubt it. No use in needing another army book (wich also needs to be redone right now) to fully use this one. That's good for expansion book, but not for a real army book.

[Peril]

How about just new warrior models!

[Gooner]

Having play DE for a very long time and also playing against them more recently with my OK I have some basic ideas of what needs to be done.

- Hydra needs to be 225 points, we get a bonus of the hatred and handles because we tame them and they are something special to us in a way. I also agree that you should buy beastmasters as a rare choice for XX points, then choose from a group of different monsters to bring. This would also alow for things like maticore, chimera, hydra, etc and then if you wanted to use a different model you just choose the one with the closest stat line you think fits.

- Black guard are really powerful, even with the unit cap they are still amazing. I know the unit cap has to be lifted, but I feel that they should be more of an anvil unit and the execs the hammer. Give them 1 attack each, but give them full plate. leave stubborn and maybe give eternal hatred to Execs?

- Execs need to be buffed, right now they just are nothing compared to BG. Give them something like maybe Eternal Hatred from BG. They should be the hammer, but they are so slow. Maybe their weapons are forged of light metal , or they are so used to using them they ignore GW rules like HE. I know this is the same as HE but somthing needs to be done...

- Magic items need to be changed. I recently played a game against a DE player who has two chars on pegs that where almost unkillable. One had pendant and the other had cloak , both had 1+ saves. He placed them infront of two of my units and basically said charge him or dont do anything. Then proceeded to focus my other units down until he could combo charge my other two. Was incredibly unfun and really bothered me. As DE we should have stuf that does damage or causes magic to be insane, BUT have drawbacks. Right now there is no drawbacks.

- Bolt throwers need to be at most 50 points. Keep them how they are, maybe be BS5

The rest of the army is fine, Dreadlords are a biot expesive and couldron should be rare as right now it is a auto include BSB. Let me use my converted master BSB !!!! Shave a few points here and there from knights , dark riders, corairs and give WE a 6+ ward save

[vorthrax]

My wishlist for Dark Elves:
- Eliminate the unit cap for Black Guard
- Add monster options to Handlers
- Add purchaseable Khainite option to Dreadlords and Masters

[tmarichards]

Not really wishlisting, but something that might come up based on the fluff in the rulebook- giant walking suits of enchanted armour...

Let's hope not.

[Shadowsinner]

Not really wishlisting, but something that might come up based on the fluff in the rulebook- giant walking suits of enchanted armour...

Let's hope not.

thats the new rare choice

[spartan41]

My wishlisting:

Get rid of the cheap tricks that make people complain about the DE power level, mindrazor, "broken" items, overpowered magic phase, etc etc.

Make combat units more killy, on par with HE elites without magic spells. Increase points if needed. COK 2 attacks for the cold ones and monsterous calvary, witches insane in combat(glass canon) without mindrazor. random khaine blessings on khaininite troops, make BG better and more expensive. These guys were taken as babies, tested and trained their whole life to be badasses in combat, come on.

I want to see the nagarythe/aenarion spirit on the tabletop, the warlords of the druchii should be master tacticians that are alwasy thinking ahead, with very well trained and disciplined troops. Tone down the magic play in the army and add a special rule that gives them more manuverability to make easy flank charges or better reform options or less likelyhood of a failed charge and make it easier to regroup. I guess eternal hatere d is basically taking care of this but lets be honest, HE got the cake on armywide rules when DE should be the better combat army.

I'm hoping for a powerful book, without the tricks, a spartanesc army derived from a society where only the strongest and most cunning survive.

[Athlan na Dyr]

To be perfectly honest, giant suits of walking armour could look extremely awesome (or alternatively, utterly god-awful). As a concept, I personally would have these as instruments of the Temple of Khaine, who animate these statues using the tortured souls of slaves who are executed before them by the very best of the executioners. It would fit with the whole Druchii asthetic of exploiting the lesser beings and their sadistic tendencies. Chuck in a line or two about the construction of such things being unknown, or the temple viewing them as gifts from Khaine himself (nothing so overt as having them glow with molten blood, having a constantly dripping left hand or a rune marked sword that screams) and I'd be one happy camper. After all, the Druchii sacrfice a crap tonne of slaves to Khaine every day, its high time he pulled his finger out in return.

Continuing with the whole religious aspect of the army, no fudging Slaaneshi Cultists. Keep them in the background, have some insinuations about the Cult growing in power or a cultist's belief in the possibility of Malekith himself siding with them over the Khainites in the future by all means, but no unit entry, spells or magic items associated with them. Chaos has three armies. Dark Elves aren't one, just as the Empire (with its hordes of cultists) isn't either.

As for magic, I'd have the lore attribute as follows:
Harvesting: After rolling powerdice to cast a spell, but before the opponent attempts to dispel, the Dark Elf player may nominate to try to harvest more power. Pick a model in base to base contact with the casting model, then roll a D6.
>On a 2-6, the picked model suffers a wound and the Dark Elf player may add a number of D6 equal to half of the caster wizard level (rounding up) to the casting attempt. These dice may not contribute to irresistible force or a miscast.
>On the roll of a 1, the attempt fails and no extra dice are added. The picked model still suffers a wound and the sorceress suffers one strength 3 hit in return.

Otherwise, I'm firmly in the T3 camp, the pendant becoming a spellcaster only choice, Monstrous mounts becoming cheaper, more monster options than the hydra, blackguard having no unit cap and the hydra being more expensive whilst the bolt thrower becomes cheaper.