Defiance Games - Alien Wars

[Ben]

This is why giving release dates soon after the holidays is a bad idea. January would be nice and vague and give some leeway. 16th of January when there are 10 working days left to the Christmas break and 9 days after seems unrealistic unless they're pretty close to being ready to ship already.
We aren't talking GW where they've got the stock in warehouses a few weeks in advance and in stores well before release date. People don't expect such precision from smaller operators.

[Zond]

Yeah, I don't see these being available on the 16th of January, or January at all. Who knows, could be wrong, but I'm growing more wary that a sprue or even a decent painted figure is going to take a while to turn up.

I was going to pre-order just before or after Christmas as a little treat, but I think I'll wait until release date or until a few online reviewers take the plunge.

[Gallahad]

@Ben, to be fair, DFG said the Marines would be shipping the week of January the 16th, so that does technically give a bit of wiggle room on the release. Assuming a whole week of workdays is lost to the holidays, that still leaves 25 weekdays between now and January 20th (last day of the week beginning Jan 16th).

@Zond, no problem. Glad you like the figures.

I plan on doing up at least one box as a private security force ala Blackwater. I just need to figure out how to sculpt a good baseball hat on the bare head guy.

[AlexHolker]

We've got some renders of the bare heads now - male and female PZG with forage caps.

[GomezAddams]

Thats for the german set. Theres a few renders for the Germans. And plenty of referances to poor manufacturing and how there reinventing the wheel to the point where the molds capture the sharpness of the sculpts...

Still, two weeks till launch...

[One Man Assault]

Those female heads look really nice. They look female without looking ridiculously feminine or sexual. If they follow this ethic with the bodies, especially the Marine Corps females then this we be fantastic. A female miniature not sculpted by a horny 14 year old boy, and multi part plastic to boot. Could not ask for more.

[Bubbatron]

some more pics on their facebook site here, rear of box art showing the models themselves

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Defian...84727694892623

[GomezAddams]

Trooper two looks like a render we've seen previously, as does trooper three.

Only a week or so left, I won't mind eating my words

[BobtheInquisitor]

Well, I preordered. Hopefully I'll get them sometime this month.

I can't wait for them to arrive and take on my greatcoated Shock Troops. I have a feeling they're itching for a grudge match.

[Bubbatron]

some more pics here on their site now

http://www.defiancegames.com/index.p...adiers-preview

[GomezAddams]

Of the Germans, and there renders. Its why I didn't bother to mention it.

[Gallahad]

Of the Germans, and there renders. Its why I didn't bother to mention it.

So Gomez, do you want them to release more renders or less?

Would you prefer (or do you think it is good business practice) that they release no teasers of future products until they show the sprues? You mentioned earlier that you were surprised that they didn't show more renders, but then seem pretty hostile to renders when they do show them off.

I am curious as to why you post here. You doubt they will release on time (and I admit they are down to the wire here), so are you just hanging around for validation or something? Do you think they will ship product a couple of weeks late, or never?

[lord marcus]

So Gomez, do you want them to release more renders or less?

Would you prefer (or do you think it is good business practice) that they release no teasers of future products until they show the sprues? You mentioned earlier that you were surprised that they didn't show more renders, but then seem pretty hostile to renders when they do show them off.

I am curious as to why you post here. You doubt they will release on time (and I admit they are down to the wire here), so are you just hanging around for validation or something? Do you think they will ship product a couple of weeks late, or never?

Personally, and i think Gomez will agree with me here, I think they should show more teasers of Physical product or physical resin master/quick casts

[Darsc Zacal]

I think a lot of folks are interested in the promise of what Defiance has planned, but perhaps are a bit fearful about their ability to deliver on those promises.

I'm really hoping that Defiance can pull this off, I'd love to see another upcoming mini company meet with some success. But I really need to see some pics of the actual product and know that they have the production capabilities to meet the demand before I'd place any orders.

Also, it depends on how Defiance's soldiers match up with Mantics upcoming Corporation line.

[Gallahad]

I definitely hear you, and understand the concern about a new company. These are only pre-orders (emphasis on pre), but I am sure that DFG would be just as happy with an order placed once they hit store shelves. I know that Neal at the Warstore is giving away a free 2 man sprue of marines with every pre-order box, but that might not be a big enough incentive to pre-order without seeing the actual sprue for some.

I will pass along to Tony that you have mentioned wanting to see more resin quick casts. If you guys want I will find the picture of the resin cast that I saw, but it is in clear resin, so it is hard to see the details.

[Whitwort Stormbringer]

Re: renders vs. shots of the physical sprues

I would guess that most folks have a similar attitude towards render previews as I do, which is more or less as follows:

Renders are great as a very early teaser, a "coming attractions" if you will, because they show off what direction the company is planning for the minis, offer some eye candy, etc. I love them and would prefer that companies continue with them for the simple reason that I like to be in-the-know on future developments and be able to anticipate some purchases for the future.

At the same time, I'm not going to order or pre-order based on only renders of the digital sculpts because I feel like they're not necessarily accurately representative of the product I'll be receiving. Before I order minis I wanted to see photos of the minis (all the contents of the box/kit), and for me at least preferably painted and unpainted or on-the-sprue images.

So in short I wouldn't want Defiance to quit showing off renders, and I doubt others would either, but I think some of the misgivings or hesitations come primarily from a lack of photos of the minis even if there are plenty of good-looking renders out there. Sooner or later another render isn't that enticing if we're still eagerly awaiting shots of the actual minis.

Just my 0.02, I certainly have high hopes for Defiance games and I love the looks of what I've seen so far. I just want more before making the jump and ordering.

[BobtheInquisitor]

I really like that German design. Well, I do have some questions about the cod-piece-plus-thigh-highs-over-fishnets crotch design, but they're not a deal breaker. If these babies hit WGF quality, I will happily buy a box.

In fact, now I want to pit them against the Shock Troops in the annual "Up with That Can" citizen pick-off this spring. They can be coaches, referees and executioners.

[AlexHolker]

I agree with that. I'd say the ideal approach from the customers' perspective would be:

1. Post concept art. Look at response. If the response is bad, go back and change it.
2. Make sculpts that look like the concept art.
3. Post renders. Look at response. If the response is bad, go back and change it.
4. Get the moulds made.
5. Post pictures of casts/sprues. Take pre-orders.

[GomezAddams]

So Gomez, do you want them to release more renders or less?
...
Would you prefer (or do you think it is good business practice) that they release no teasers of future products until they show the sprues?

Less renders - Were five days from shipping date. Definitely time to be showing more then just renders.

Its definitely good business sense to release no teasers until the first products out the door given the history of the company. The guys at defiance, when they were in charge of WF, were renowned for releasing products late or not at all.

I am curious as to why you post here. You doubt they will release on time (and I admit they are down to the wire here), so are you just hanging around for validation or something?

Yes I doubt they'll release on time.

If you look back, I've been replying to people posting links to more previews which are clearly renders and for another set entirely.

As I've said before on similar topics, I'm looking forward to being proved wrong. This is a product I would happily own, and be glad to see in the market, but until theres follow through on the product it seems to be a lot of noise about nothing.

Do you think they will ship product a couple of weeks late, or never?

If anyone gets there pre-ordered sets before the end of the month I'll be genuinely surprised.

I'm aware of how much work goes on behind the scenes at a mini company. The sheer logistics involved in shifting a new metal release is mind boggling but for a plastic release it raises a boat load of new issues and the fact that were five days away from shipping and we have yet to see a single picture of a plastic sprue must make you stop and think.

If you guys want I will find the picture of the resin cast that I saw, but it is in clear resin, so it is hard to see the details.

I've seen that picture (the one next to the space marine and the WF great coat trooper?). Seems to be the same trooper thats been painted. Like I said, its a week away from shipping... why not show a sprue picture or two?

[scarletsquig]

If you don't want to order until you've seen physical product being shipped, then erm... maybe you should not order until you've seen physical product being shipped?

That is what I do, and that is what the vast majority of people do as well. Simple.

There's no need to also go on to make attacks on a company that hasn't had a chance to prove itself one way or the other yet. Save it until after they've screwed up, anything else just comes across as petty.

I've seen this sort of thing before with other people whining about Mantic offering pre-orders despite having an excellent 100% track record of always hitting published shipping dates on time, and it really does come across as people just wanting to have a baseless whinge purely for the sake of it.

You're probably right, of course, but I dislike the approach taken to this.

Simply informing people of the "history" with the company and advising them to wait until pictures of finished sprues were shown should have been enough if you were interested in warning people off of pre-ordering out of genuine concern that they might not receive their minis. There's no need for dragging out all the rest of it, and assuming failure before it's happened.