hard game to start playing?

[Demoulius]

hello all.

ive had a night of sleep depravity so decided to read the necromunda rulebook (baring fluff parts) and im kinda super psyched about playing this. im a big fan of games with a story and the idea that every casualty you get has concequences

i have a group of about 4 or 5 players and im planning to feel the water if they would like to give this game a go. if not Im fairly sure I know of another group thats already activly playing this but id prefer to play this with my current group

Is this game hard to get into? Would I NEED the book or is having the PDF; s around enough? Ive worked with the PDF's fro BFG and I honestly prefer having a book in my hands but il wait and see if were even going to play this first

What sort of terrain would I need? Are normal 40K ruins decent enough? Could we make some gangers from catachens with beardy heads from the empire range added? Looking forward to your replies

[Spectrar Ghost]

It's an easy game to start. The online pdf is the same as the Necromunda: Underhive book, so no need to get both unless you want to. If any of your group have played 40k 2ed, they'll feel right at home; it's essentially the same thing with injuries and an advancement system.

As for your model related qustions, 40k ruins are fine, but the ability to cross between buildings above ground level is something you will often miss out on with this route. I'm in the process of making magnetized modular ruins to play over because the lack of walkways on the CoD terrain I have access to is criminal.

You can absolutely kitbash gangs together - for cheaper than the metals in most cases, too. My Van Saar are Cadians, I've got two buddies with DE Wytches and Kabalites for Escher, and Catachans are good for Goliath or Orlock. WFB Empire Flagellents would probably make good Cawdor (better if you have the skill to sculpt on hoods and stuff).

[Rhamag]

Necromunda is subtly different from modern 40k, as it is based on 2nd Ed, but after a game your group should get the hang of the rules, no worries. There will be occasions when you may need to 50/50 a rules disagreement, but the rules are pretty balanced. Probably your group will evolve some gentle house-rules after a campaign or two, depending on what the more devious players come up with in terms of gang builds etc. but you shouldn't have many problems.

Scenery-wise, regular 40k terrain will be fine, but it should really be as dense as possible. Bridges & walkways also add to the gameplay in Necromunda (as there are rules for climbing, jumping & falling) so try and add some if you can. The 3D aspects of Necromunda are a lot of fun.

Finally, you can make gangers out of lots of proxies & kitbashes. I've used Orks as Goliaths, and Wyches as Esher girls. Catachans mixed with Chaos Marauders make good Goliaths also. The Empire flagellants can be handy as well for the more extreme gangs like Scavvies or Redemptionists. Happily, lasguns are good weapons in Necromunda (!) so using Guardsmen as a base is not a bad idea. Autoguns can be made from bolters with lasgun barrels or lasguns with bolter ammo clips. Most other weapons are straight copies from the 40k Imperial forces.

If you get REALLY into it, magnetise the wrists of the gangers so they can swap weapons in between games!

Have fun!

Edit: Ninja'd!

[Demoulius]

Sweet! Thanks for the speedy replies

Ive been building my list already and some things strike me as odd. Whats the difference between a lasgun and a autogun? They cost the same but a lasgun explodes less in your face? if thats the only difference I dont see much reasons in using one

On page 80 they have an example list but did they make some errors or am I not understanding something? They note its an Orlock gang but gangers haven o acces to chainswords or swords for their leaders for that matter....Yet they are listed in the example

And last but not least, could you guys give my list a looksy and see if I made any big errors? It was about 10 minutes work and as far as I can tell I dident miss anything...

Gang leader, shotgun with man stopper shells and chainsword - 170 pts
Heavy with a chain and a heavy stubber - 190 pts
3 gangers with lasguns - 225 pts
ganger with a shotgun and extra knife - 75 pts
ganger with an autogun and autopistol - 85 pts (felt sorry for the lack of auto weapons mostly )
2 juves with extra knives - 60 pts
3 juves with laspistols - 120 pts

Should come at 925 pts with 75 pts left for the stash. Already 12 gangers at the start of my gang. Should I give my gang leader a Meltagun? Should I add another ganger with lasgun/shotty or just keep it as is?

[Comrade Wraith]

Ive been building my list already and some things strike me as odd. Whats the difference between a lasgun and a autogun? They cost the same but a lasgun explodes less in your face? if thats the only difference I dont see much reasons in using one

This has been the general consensus as far as I know for a while, autoguns are simply not worth it (which is sad because I'm quite fond of them). If you want to include them maybe house rule them up with +2 short range accuracy or something like that.

I started my current necromunda campaign with three people completely new to wargaming, theres a lot to explain, but as long as you go through it all with them clearly you can pick it up quite quickly. My group has played four games and they're already equipping and upgrading their own gangers with no problem... not to mention seeing right through my carefully laid game plans
I typed up a summary of game turns for them to have, so I was explaining exactly what they could do in each phase first, then after a bit I gave them the home-made "turn guide" (mainly so they could see I wasn't lying about the dice rolls they had to make) for each turn, but by the second game they were all very much into it

I'm not entirely sure but I think the house weapon lists were abolished in a community upgrade of the rules, I still kept them for the start of the campaign but have since allowed all gangs access to all weapons on the list (with ganger type restrictions still in place of course).

Your list, I think, is fine, although I'm not one to talk much for good list-building tactics as I tend to build fluffy lists (I left my leader un-lobo-chipped for a game just because his head wound made the game so funny).

Also, buy some grenades at some point, they're hillariously fun...

[simonr1978]

Sweet! Thanks for the speedy replies

Ive been building my list already and some things strike me as odd. Whats the difference between a lasgun and a autogun? They cost the same but a lasgun explodes less in your face? if thats the only difference I dont see much reasons in using one

The Autogun is 5 credits less than the Lasgun. I use Autoguns quite often in my gangs as the way I see it they're practically identical to Las Guns in most respects but are cheaper and I haven't found the poorer ammo roll or lack of save modifier to be a major issue.

On page 80 they have an example list but did they make some errors or am I not understanding something? They note its an Orlock gang but gangers haven o acces to chainswords or swords for their leaders for that matter....Yet they are listed in the example

IIRC that sample Orlock gang is the same one that was originally used in the paperback rulebook/sourcebook that came in the boxed set. Back then there were no House weapons lists so you could kit out your gangers with any of the common weapons from the outset with no restrictions.

And last but not least, could you guys give my list a looksy and see if I made any big errors? It was about 10 minutes work and as far as I can tell I dident miss anything...

Gang leader, shotgun with man stopper shells and chainsword - 170 pts
Heavy with a chain and a heavy stubber - 190 pts
3 gangers with lasguns - 225 pts
ganger with a shotgun and extra knife - 75 pts
ganger with an autogun and autopistol - 85 pts (felt sorry for the lack of auto weapons mostly )
2 juves with extra knives - 60 pts
3 juves with laspistols - 120 pts

Should come at 925 pts with 75 pts left for the stash. Already 12 gangers at the start of my gang. Should I give my gang leader a Meltagun? Should I add another ganger with lasgun/shotty or just keep it as is?

Looks OK to me, no glaring errors that I can pick up on. I would go for Autopistols rather than Las Pistols for the Juves. Juves are only BS2 so the -1 at long range will have a significant effect on their already poor shooting. Autopistols don't have the negative modifier at long range. I'd also ditch the extra knife for the shotgun ganger, he'll gain no benefit from it. I'd probably give the chain to another fighter rather than the Heavy too.

I wouldn't bother with the Melta Gun myself unless you're expecting to come across some heavily armoured and/or high Toughness opponents. In the hands of a BS3 shooter against a normal unarmoured T3 ganger at 6-12" there's not a great deal of difference in your chances of taking an enemy ganger down than if you shoot with a Lasgun or Autogun. At 6" and below, it swings more in favour of the Melta Gun, above 12" you have no chance with a Melta Gun whatsoever. With a BS4 gunner the Melta has a bit more of an advantage but not enough to justify its price tag IMO.

The flipside of course is that with a Melta Gun you have the prestige and fear factor of your leader carrying an S8 weapon which is likely to have a value all to itself.

If you can spare the credits and want to give your leader a Special the Plasma Gun is a better option.

With your spare credits I would give your remaining Juves a gun of some sort, even a stub gun is better than nothing, buy Bolt shells for the leader's shotgun, buy a backup gun for your Heavy and maybe recruit a hired gun if you have enough credits spare.

[AndrewGPaul]

in 1st edition 40k, lasguns had a 24"range, while autoguns had a 30" or possibly 36" range. you could try that as a house rule. Also, aren't autoguns 5 credits cheaper? I tend to use them because converting rifle-armed gangers is more hassle than it's worth to min-max a gang.

The meltagun is also handy for one of the objectives in the Raid scenario (or for blowing up the elevator on the green building from Outlanders, if you have the original card scenery) - that might be worth considering.

[Demoulius]

Cheers for the responses yet again

Dident notice the range modifier on laspistol, thanks for that! Autopistols it is

I kept the melee juves without a firearm because I figured specializing early on would help add flavour to my gang, and its more effecient I think? Or doesent it add any benefits in having 2 knives? Does having a pistol and a knife give the same results?

Likewise, wouldnt the shotgunner be able to use his 2 knives if he comes in hand to hand? I gave the heavy the chain as a sort of fluffy weapon...And because I think it will look cool Seriously though if he gets in combat I want him to bash whoever attacked his head in so he can continue to do what he does (or should) do best. Fire his stubber at stuff... Il give him a backup weapon though.

Small question on the heavy stubber. Concerning substained fire and experience from mostly. First off, I can only use substained fire during overwatch correct? And concerning experience, it says that I get experience when I wound an enemy. Does the exception in the rule itself cover multiple wound weapon (D3 or D6 wound weapons) or do you just get 1 xp max in a game for wounding something?

Why should I buy bolt shells for my leader? Is the range increase that good? I noticed it has no range modifier but still dident think it were a must have. The 6+ ammo roll also kind of puts me off Giving the ganger with shotty man stoppers sounds like a good idea, that -2 modifier might come in handy, and its only 5 points

Speaking off armour, its all rare! Do you start the game without any at all?

[simonr1978]

I kept the melee juves without a firearm because I figured specializing early on would help add flavour to my gang, and its more effecient I think? Or doesent it add any benefits in having 2 knives? Does having a pistol and a knife give the same results?

A pistol and a knife give you the same benefits in Hand to Hand combat as two knives, with the added bonus that you have some ranged capabilities and if you have a higher strength pistol than your fighter's S half your hits are resolved with your pistol's Strength instead. As advancements are mostly random specialising at an early stage is no particular long term benefit. You may equip a ganger for close combat and end up with a BS5 Marksman, so it's worth being prepared to rejig your equipment as necessary.

Likewise, wouldnt the shotgunner be able to use his 2 knives if he comes in hand to hand? I gave the heavy the chain as a sort of fluffy weapon...And because I think it will look cool Seriously though if he gets in combat I want him to bash whoever attacked his head in so he can continue to do what he does (or should) do best. Fire his stubber at stuff... Il give him a backup weapon though.

The Shotgunner gains no benefit whatsoever from carrying a second knife. You only gain the +1A if you are only armed with pistols and Close Combat Weapons (And Grenades, but you don't fight in Hand to Hand with those), if you have a Basic, Special or Heavy Weapon then it's assumed that the fighter has to use at least one hand to hold that at all times (Apparently in the 41st Millenium they lost the ability to use rifle slings )

That said, my old group from around the time Necromunda was fairly new used a houserule that allowed fighters to abandon weapons. It wasn't risk free, weapons could be lost or captured by the other gang and in any case once it'd been dropped the gun counted as Out Of Ammo for the remainder of that game.

Small question on the heavy stubber. Concerning substained fire and experience from mostly. First off, I can only use substained fire during overwatch correct? And concerning experience, it says that I get experience when I wound an enemy. Does the exception in the rule itself cover multiple wound weapon (D3 or D6 wound weapons) or do you just get 1 xp max in a game for wounding something?

No, you can use sustained fire at any time. And it's +5XP (Usually) per wounding hit. So if your fighter shoots and wounds someone every turn in a game that lasts 5 turns he'll get 25XP. If however he fires a Flamer that catches 5 gangers and wounds all of them, that's only 5XP. Similarly, if you open fire with a Heavy Stubber and hit and wound multiple gangers it's still only 5XP. The way to think of it as a general rule is one "To Hit" roll = 1x 5XP maximum per turn

Why should I buy bolt shells for my leader? Is the range increase that good? I noticed it has no range modifier but still dident think it were a must have. The 6+ ammo roll also kind of puts me off Giving the ganger with shotty man stoppers sounds like a good idea, that -2 modifier might come in handy, and its only 5 points

The extra range is handy if you need it, plus you only suffer the 6+ Ammo Roll when firing Bolt, when firing other ammo types you use the relevant ammo roll. Basically you're giving him a more versatile and less risky weapon than the Bolter, but which will be just as effective if you need it. Don't forget as well, you don't roll for ammo every turn (Except if you're using a Flamer), only when you roll a 6 on your "To Hit" Roll.

Speaking off armour, its all rare! Do you start the game without any at all? :

That's correct, you have to wait for it to come up as a rare trade.

[Demoulius]

Ah I see I see in that case every Juve will get an autopistol instead of 2nd knife

Il drop the extra weapon from the shotty ganger. Or would it be worthwhile to give him an axe or something? Having +1S seems usefull since everyone is S3 AND T3 at the start of the game. Wounding on 4's isent exactly ideal

Good points on the bolt ammo... But at 15 pts its costing me an arm and a leg to add though

Also, maybe just a small thing but wont the armour modifiers be somewhat useless if noone has any armour to penetrate?

Thanks for the feedback and helping me by clarifying stuff. Sorry for the noob questions

A revised list then:
gang leader, shotgun with manstopper and bolt shells, chainsword - 185 pts
heavy with heavy stubber, a chain and lasgun - 215 pts
ganger with shotgun with manstopper rounds and an axe - 85 pts
3 gangers with laguns - 225 pts
1 ganger with an autogun - 70 pts (just want to keep him in, for fun sake. And hes 5 points cheaper to boot )
5 juves with autopistols - 200 pts

Should still have 20 pts left in my stash I think the juves are gonna run in asap supported by support fire from the gangers and heavy. Think my gang leader will either hang back with the heavy or tag along with the shotgunner and lead the charge. Sound like a good tactic/gang?

[Comrade Wraith]

Should still have 20 pts left in my stash I think the juves are gonna run in asap supported by support fire from the gangers and heavy. Think my gang leader will either hang back with the heavy or tag along with the shotgunner and lead the charge. Sound like a good tactic/gang?

I was running this tactic of a divided gang, with my close combat orientated leader leading juves whilst being supported, but i found that whilst my firebase was doing awfully well, against shooty gangs the small group of close combat gang members got outgunned and shot up (with the enemy not bothering to take cover as they were confidently out of the 12" range) and then outnumbered against close combat orientated gangs.

Giving my juves grenades helped a bit, although they are shorter range than pistols, my opponents seemed much more keen to take cover with a load of grenade toting juves heading their way. It might also be worth taking a rifle ganger along with the close combat group to keep enemy snipers' heads down. Giving your leader bolt rounds was a good move in this respect.

[simonr1978]

Sounds and looks pretty sound. It's worth keeping a Ganger back with the Heavy in my experience, that way if your Heavy is shot and hit he's hopefully got a slightly better than 50/50 chance of unpinning, otherwise you'll lose him for your next turn. What I generally do too is keep a Juve back with the Heavy on Overwatch, a last second burst of Autopistol fire has saved my Downed Heavy from being taken out in Hand To Hand more than once. I also usually attach a Juve as Bodyguard to my Leader for the same purposes.

[Demoulius]

Hmmm I thought juves were unable to get a model out of pinning? Something about having a juve around 'not helping' the case for the downed model?

I dont intend to send my gangers out to their doom. I intend to use them as a counter charge element. Having them hide and/or on overwatch on the flanks and responding in kind to my opponents moves. Offcourse I havent played a single game yet (did find 2 mates already who would like to join in on the game ) and plans rarely survive an encounter on the field but who knows?

I took an Orlock because I tend to favor all-round lists. The gang is still pretty all round imho and perhaps the perks will change that, I dont know...

Speaking of which, how does the progression system work? Its abit unclear to me

And do gangers, heavies and your leader stat with them or can you only earn them?

[simonr1978]

You're right that Juves don't help with unpinning which is why I said about leaving a ganger, such as one of your Lasgunners, behind with the Heavy too. The Juve is for close quarter protection, for example, if the Heavy is charged by a Close Combat equipped Ganger, that's when your Juve lets rip with his Overwatch fire. At close range an Autopistol equipped Juve on Overwatch has a 50/50 chance of hitting an enemy fighter and stopping his charge dead in its tracks even if he doesn't manage to wound him. Juves actual do make decent bodyguards in that respect.

[Demoulius]

When you put it like that juves protecting a heavy dont sound like such a bad idea

Ive re-read the part about the skills and advancements and im still not sure, do you start with abilities or not? Seems to me that you dont which is sad, as a juve could easily beat your gang leader when he would reach the same xp limit

Oh! And ive spoken to 2 buddies, one will most likely play a Saar gang and another a Cawdor gang using mutants and heretic guardsmen for his gang

Yay! Cant wait

[simonr1978]

Ive re-read the part about the skills and advancements and im still not sure, do you start with abilities or not? Seems to me that you dont which is sad, as a juve could easily beat your gang leader when he would reach the same xp limit

No, the improved stats and access to Basic and Special Weapons are the "Advances" that Leaders and Gangers have over Juves. A Juve can have better stats by the time they reach the same XP as a ganger or leader, on the other hand they could have rolled badly and not got many useful advances and at the same time be plagued by injuries.

That's all part of the fun of Necromunda...

[Demoulius]

Hmmm fair enough Might be fun to see a juve grow out to be better then the gang leader

[Demoulius]

I have finished assembling my gang!!! Mind some small things still need to be done with greenstuff, gaps filled and such but the models themselves are basicly assembled

Il add pictures of a few of them.

Ive added some heads from the empire range and they add a very nice look to the otherwise almost completly catachan models! Ive got parts from marine kits (satchels and such, scout shotties) The heavy was a joy to convert taking a stubber intended for a pintle mount and turning him in a hand held weapon

Shotguns were a pain in the back side to convert from marine scout shotguns. Since I couldnt use the arms cutting and re-assembly was required... They look great though really doubt il add more shotguns at a later though, damn pain in the ass conversions

The autogun conversion looks very nice as well! The "pretty boy" head from the greatsword has resulted in me naming my first model! He is Duncan "Pretty boy" Graves

Im not to happy with how the gang leader came out (like I mentioned the shotty gave me some trouble...) but perhaps il change his wargear in the future or something. Hes not perfect but eh, cant have it all I guess.

The juves were also a pain to assemble as the catachan range doesent allow much poses with the static arms that are included.... Some cutting and using gunarms intended for lasguns has provided with more viable poses but id hate to be in a posistion to have to add more.... Im not sure I could posewise....

Hmm should I make a log for these guys and how my group experiences necromunda?

[Malo]

I'm not sure if you're aware of it yet but Yakromunda can help you immensely with your gang and campaign management, especially being new to the game.

[Demoulius]

Hey I dident know that site yet! Thanks for that I tried registrering but Im not getting a mail or notice that my application is beeing processed though

That aside I spoke to one of my group. The one who previously wanted a van Saar gang now wants a Goliath gang made out of marauder, catachan etc bits

HAvent spoken to anyone else yet but il be making some new terrain in the meantime. We should have our first game soon(ish)

Now im off to construct some walkways and small terrain pieces we can use to fill our streets