New Citadel Paints (Was Gossip - GW paints to be discontinued in march)

[Mastodon]

Bram, can you post some observations/stuff...? How's Gehenna's gold? How does it compare to Shining in terms of the hue and coverage? What about the other metallics?

Are all the pots the same colour or are the washes in black pots?

On the GW blog today a guy made a statement that seemed to suggest that you don't need to water-down the paints. Is that true? I tried the paints at GW a week ago but watered them down, didn't think of testing straight out of the pot.

You can use them straight from the pot and get decentish results. I'd still water them down, but it takes a lot less to get the right consistency.

[spaint2k]

I bought the Blood Angel red range yesterday (Mephiston Red, Evil Sunz Scarlet, Wild Rider Red, Bloodletter glaze) and was very very impressed with the results. I obtained a vibrant beautiful red on a terminator helmet with a minimum of effort and the paints were a joy to use. I was especially thrilled because I have never liked Mechrite Red and indeed all the GW reds have been tough to use. My only complaint would have to do with the paint dripping into the rear side of the lid - the clear lid makes it very easy to see as you close it that there's paint jammed in there.

So far, I really like what I've seen of these new paints. I'm looking forward to using up my old stuff and buying these new ones.

[VenomBlood]

I bought the Blood Angel red range yesterday (Mephiston Red, Evil Sunz Scarlet, Wild Rider Red, Bloodletter glaze) and was very very impressed with the results. I obtained a vibrant beautiful red on a terminator helmet with a minimum of effort and the paints were a joy to use. I was especially thrilled because I have never liked Mechrite Red and indeed all the GW reds have been tough to use. My only complaint would have to do with the paint dripping into the rear side of the lid - the clear lid makes it very easy to see as you close it that there's paint jammed in there.

So far, I really like what I've seen of these new paints. I'm looking forward to using up my old stuff and buying these new ones.

Nice review, now I just should try some red paints.

[AndrewGPaul]

That's one of doing it, however only time will tell exactly how much glaze you'll need (if indeed it's possible at all) to create a match to the old Glistening Green. I'm not particularly bothered as it's not a colour I'm in need of anyway, I just thought with such an expanded range they would have thrown it in.

The old blue, green and purple metallics were never very good, in my experience. The metallic particles sank to the bottom and stayed there, no matter how much you shook or stirred the bottles. Most of the time you ended up with a very slightly metallic weak purple, and then right at the bottom you had a thick silver sludge with a slight purple tint.

[Born Again]

Now you mention it I seem to remember that too Been a while since I've used them.

[xxRavenxx]

Demo'd some washes to a customer today. Theyre nice. Slightly less staining of the upper surface, more "cling" to pull them into cracks.

[zoggin-eck]

Well, I was good today, I only got the black, white and stirland mud texture from a GW store (absolutely packed, it's school holidays and Easter Saturday! I should have gone straight home from work).

I'll get at least the Fantasy painting set and a few colours from a local store later. Annoying to see there are three doubles in the Fantasy and 40 sets. I was hoping they would be an easy way to get spare miniatures. I guess I can forgive the primer, I guess.

[Pistols At Dawn]

Does anyone know what the 8 army projects are, in the new 'How to' book/DVD set?

[Karnage]

Does anyone know what the 8 army projects are, in the new 'How to' book/DVD set?

Aurora Chapter, Hive Fleet Kraken, Empire (Reikland), Dark Eldar (Kabal of the Keening Blade) Gondor army, Tomb Kings, Haradrim and Orcs & Goblins (Ironskinz Tribe).

[DarkLordBelial]

My local Hobbycraft still has the old paints

Was hoping to try out some of the latests ones but guess I will have to wait.

[Pistols At Dawn]

Aurora Chapter, Hive Fleet Kraken, Empire (Reikland), Dark Eldar (Kabal of the Keening Blade) Gondor army, Tomb Kings, Haradrim and Orcs & Goblins (Ironskinz Tribe).

Thanks for that. Are the projects featured in the book a series of step-by-steps or is it more a compendium of useful techniques, etc. The GW site has been rather sparse with the info on this.

[Damien 1427]

Thanks for that. Are the projects featured in the book a series of step-by-steps or is it more a compendium of useful techniques, etc. The GW site has been rather sparse with the info on this.

There's techniques at the start (Pretty basic, for advanced stuff pick up the 'Eavy Metal Masterclass book if it's still in print) and step by step guides at the back. Haven't watched the DVD yet.

Also, oh gods that Leadbelcher. If the rest of the metallics are like this, it was worth the change.

[Karnage]

Thanks for that. Are the projects featured in the book a series of step-by-steps or is it more a compendium of useful techniques, etc. The GW site has been rather sparse with the info on this.

If you've seen the White Dwarf article with the Space Wolves, the Army Project section is pretty much the same as that. Basically step-by-steps for each type of model, and with some variations that you may want to do (different plume colours for the Empire, etc). The DVD goes through the Termagant for the Kraken scheme and a normal Marine for the Aurora Chapter, but pretty briefly and nothing too detailed as you've already seen the basic techniques, but you could easily follow along with the DVD and book in front of you. In fact, the DVD is partially designed as a companion for the book so that you can read a section and then watch the DVD to see the technique being applied.

[Morkash]

To which Leadbelcher do you refer, Damien? Have they painted a Leadbelcher in the book or do you mean the colour? I always enjoyed Citadel's metals the most, so I'd be happy if they would stay a similar (or better) quality!

If the general consense on the metals is that they are better than their previous incarnations, I might invest in them...will need alot for the upcoming Legion of Azgorh.

[Damien 1427]

To which Leadbelcher do you refer, Damien? Have they painted a Leadbelcher in the book or do you mean the colour? I always enjoyed Citadel's metals the most, so I'd be happy if they would stay a similar (or better) quality!

If the general consense on the metals is that they are better than their previous incarnations, I might invest in them...will need alot for the upcoming Legion of Azgorh.

The paint. It's like Boltgun Metal, but better coverage and consistency, and is smooth straight from the pot. I loved my old pot of '97 Boltgun Metal, but this is great stuff.

[Vaulkhar]

I'll second the Leadbelcher, having picked a pot up this morning. Much smoother, much smaller particle size and (somehow!) covering very nicely over white.

[dancingmonkey]

I just had a chance to play with the new paint and thought you might like to hear my thoughts. Sorry its a bit long winded.

Intro

Having a spare lunch hour I decided to step foot into a GW (for the first time in several years) to see if they would let me have a play with the new paint.

First thing was it seemed pretty quiet, which was good for an Easter Saturday. Ok, this is GW plaza, which is not the best "gaming" store going, but there was a surprising lack of footfall for a weekend.

Got a hello and the boss was happy to let me look after myself at the painting table. No one tried to sell me anything which was great, in fact, I was listening in on the guys while I painted (ex GW staffer myself so I know the tricks) and they were pretty well behaved. Still following the same old drill with each customer, but not pushy or throwing stuff at people at all, so that was great.

The setup was pretty much what everyone has reported so far. Couple of pots of various colours. Including a couple of inks, a couple of textures, two dries and some base and layers.

Despite no longer being a GW player, and getting increasingly sad to see the direction GW takes, I had no motive other than trying the paint out. I am a keen (and fairly well respected painter in some circles) so any chance to increase my paint range is one I leap on. I have no real company bias when it comes to paint, using everything from P3 to Vallejo to Foundry to GW.

Base

Immediately I could see these were far less washed out and pastel than the foundation range. Once I got them onto a palette (the GW palette could be the worst design I have ever seen, having little area to paint and ill defined recesses to pool paint, but that's an aside), I could immediately see they are far less chalky, much thinner and actually handle a little too much like the standard paints to really be considered a foundation.

I used the Mephiston Red and the Macragge blue base. The red seemed pretty good, I water down heavily, three layers gave me a decent enough starting point to play with. Sadly, a lack of layer reds, washes or even a yellow or orange to play with left me highlighting up with some dry bone for a slightly off pink that was then washed back with the red wash. Not ideal, but it worked well enough.

The blue was pretty much the same deal, this was where I focused my efforts as I wanted to follow the guide for the Ultramarine closely to test the paint as close to the intended method as possible.

Again, the blue covered well enough in three thinned layers. I tried slapping it on a little more hastily on a spare marine, so it goes on well enough in two.

On the whole the base paints felt more like a traditional paint than a foundation, which isn't a bad thing in my case as I always found the foundations to be too claggy unless watered to the point where you ended up using multiple layers anyway, defeating the point.

The colours will probably be better used as I found the foundations to be almost universally unappealing for painting, except for basing. These guys I could see using as a more visible part of the painting process, rather than providing a pastel base onto which I would cover in a better tone anyway.

Wash

I could see the new washes had changed from the Devlan Mud era. This is not Devlan Mud/Badab black etc.

The washes are now thinner and far less clingy. Some are saying this is a good thing as they will now run to eh recesses more, which is true, but I found myself missing that consistency that I use for glazing and tinting. I never found the original washes to be all that for shading, but for glazing with a bit of water they were great.

I used the Carroburg Crimson to glaze my earlier base experiments, the Nuln Oil to tint some metal, the Draeknhof Nightsahde on the marine and the elf I was painting, and there was a green pot going but I didn't find a use for it.

I felt the blue has been mixed with too much black, to the point where as I could see the lighter blue splitting away from the heavier black as I applied the wash to some paper towel. This made it a little disappointing as a blue shade, as it left the surface a little dirty and lost some of the body of the blue colour. I could see it working well as a shade for dirty metals and the like though, the oily sheen would work.

I didn't notice any of the shininess issues some people were mentioning either.

So, not the old style of wash, but not ink either. I doubt I will be adding any of these to my collection, but they were ok to use. Sadly there were no glazes going so I didn't get a play with them. These would make acceptable glazes for tinting with a little water as well, so the limited glaze range won't hold you back too much.

Layer

These were exactly what you are expecting. They handle very much like the current GW range, with the same issues I have with the pigment but now with some more foundation like colour properties. I think had more of the range been available for play then I wouldn't have felt so bad, but the blues (which seemed to be the main push as all the elements to make a blue marine except the glaze were on show) were pretty disappointing.

I felt the two layers were too similar (Altdorf Guard and Calgar), and they actually looked not far off the Macragge blue either. On the elf I was painting I used my standard technique which really failed to pop at all, even after some blue glazes (with the wash) and a re-highlight.

I then tried to emulate the painting guide and copied the steps to getting a decent looking Ultramarine. This was more successful, though the end result is more akin to the old school Ultramarine look than the lovely rich deep blue and gold they achieved when 5th ed came out. If you are painting an Ultramarine in that style, I hope the massive range of blues in the full set gives you some options, as the "Ultramarine Triad" presented is dull, uninspiring and very mute.

Dry

This was one of the two paints I was really keen to try as it is something fairly new in some respects. The Ultramarine guide showed a stage where the model is drybrushed with Etherium Blue. Avoid this step like the plague. It is way too harsh a highlight step, and looking at the guide, it looks like they overpainted the whole drybrush (or got another model) for the layer step.

To be honest, the bone drybrush paint I only used to allow me to highlight the red, and the blue was not great. Once you transfer some of the goopy muck out of a pot and start brushing it into the paper towel, it behaves much like any other paint.

I found me results were less than stellar, leaving streaky and un-natural highlights. I tried another attempt using far less paint on the drybrush with not much better results. I did drybrush with the dark metallic (leadbelcher or ironbreaker, not sure) and that worked far better the the special compound, so that was fun.

Ultimately, I am sure with some practice you can get this stuff to work for you, but it doesn't interest me. I use my remaining GW paint for drybrushing these days, as the older ground pigment was pretty good for the technique. Now that I use a lot of foundry/P3 I find I tend not to drybrush anyway, as the liquid pigment is not great for the technique, so a specific drybrushing formula sounds great. I don't think this paint is it though.

Texture

Again, I was really keen to see what this stuff was like as it seems like a novel but useful idea.

Sadly, I was really let down. I found it hard to use from the brush, clumping and not spreading evenly (I know that's kind of the point, but it made it pretty tough to base smoothly). I ended up putting two coats of the Lustrian undergrowth onto my elf, then washing with the nuln oil to create some shading. This is a necessary step for sure, It is too flat and dull straight from the pot, and is clearly designed to be at least drybrushed.

I used a bit of the Armageddon Dust as well, with similar results.

I can forsee too many issues splodging this stuff over models feet or just struggling to get it onto the base in any meaningful way. I'm sure again, practice is the order of the day, but I couldn't really see why this is better than using sand (if you put a layer of plasticard under the feet of your models, it will stop them sinking into the sand unrealistically).

Summary

On the whole, the paint did everything I expected it too. its paint, with all the variations and quirks that any other range has. With some time, and exposure to the full line I am sure I would pull out the bits that would be of use to me.

I felt the pseudo triad setup was a great idea, but was left feeling a bit flat when I tried the Space Marine guide. I'm sure other colours will give a much better end result.

I'm not going to be rushing out to pick these up that's for sure. My style has really adapted to the P3/Foundry range and I fined they handle far better for what I need, in fact, I had a quick go at blending the GW blues and felt they really didn't do very well at the task compared to my current ranges, again, the lack of contrast in each step, as well as their body made it very hard to really achieve anything meaningful.

I'm sure that for the newcomer, they will be great, I wanted to look through the paint guide at some examples of the paints in use, but sadly it was never out of the hands of the customers (fair enough, they were putting money into the till, unlike me). I'm sure in the fullness of time, people will work all manner of magic with the range and show they are great for top painters too. Like all paint ranges, they will suit different needs, they just are not for me. On that note, I heard one of the staffers say that the range was used by the Golden Demon Winner from last year for his winning Necromancer. Interesting if true, as it shows what the range can achieve.

Of course, I didn't take my models with me when Ileft (they were a bit wet still), so can't show you my results. Stupid of me. So, a fun hour of painting, with none of the dreaded GW sales pitch and a chance to try the line out.

Not bad for a lunch break, even if I am now convinced I won't be picking up much, if any of the range.

Cheers.
Jon.

[M'ichal]

thx for the review, dancingmonkey. I think I feel similarly to you after a quick try at the store. I primarily use Vallejo and GW paints and I actually do like GW paints, so will probably be picking out a few colours here and there to try out. I think the main advantage for the like of us will be a broader range of colours. I'm also really curious to see the texture paints used as mud on vehicles with some drybrushing applied, I have high hopes. If this technique works out well then I'd be willing to pick up the new textures and drys for that.

[yabbadabba]

Great review Jon, cheers. I think this

I'm sure that for the newcomer, they will be great,

possibly hits the nail on the head. From everything I have seen and read these paints are for us painting simpletons and the newbs. Quick, simple, no messing about, not the highest quality of finish but probably easier to achieve that finish than before. GW knows that unpainted minis tends to mean less soldiers being bought, so it sounds like this range is a step towards resolving that conundrum.

[dancingmonkey]

Great review Jon, cheers. I think this possibly hits the nail on the head. From everything I have seen and read these paints are for us painting simpletons and the newbs. Quick, simple, no messing about, not the highest quality of finish but probably easier to achieve that finish than before. GW knows that unpainted minis tends to mean less soldiers being bought, so it sounds like this range is a step towards resolving that conundrum.

No worries mate thanks for reading the wall of text.
I agree that they are probably great for the newcomer, and as I say, some of us oldies might well find uses for them in the fulness of time.