Vampire Counts: 8th Edition Tactica

[Askari]

Thing about blender Vampire Lords is... they can also be Level 4 casters. The kills that one model can achieve per turn is just ludicrous - as it should be given his points cost.

[Spoonie]

Well yeah, the 'blender' lord is one of the few combat characters that are worth their points. The rest are either a character running solo who's super hard to kill and stubborn, or a buff character that's giving hatred or something to the unit. I can't think of another character that people regularly take for their raw combat abilities.

[Wbarobinson]

What are the good wight king setups?

[Nicho]

Whats a blender vamp lord? :-)

[Askari]

Whats a blender vamp lord? :-)

Mine is;

Vampire Lord (466)
w/ Red Fury, Quickblood, Sword of Strife, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Heavy Armour, Level 3 Wizard

You can play around a bit with items. Earthing Rod (if a high level Wizard) Potion of Strength and Other Trickster's Shard are also great options at the cost of some surivability. Generally his job is to go in and annihilate anything that's not a hard character or monster. He can easily kill ~12 models a turn, swinging even Skeleton combats in your favour. Dread Knight is to be avoided, as you don't really want to be stuck in a challenge, where your kills are limited.

[Ville]

Whats a blender vamp lord? :-)

My version:

Vampire Lord
Red Fury, Quickblood, Beguile, Ogre Blade, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Heavy Armour, Level 2.

Many people combine Red Fury with a magic weapon that grants extra attacks. I prefer to boost his strength with Ogre Blade so he negates most armour saves and doesn't care much about high Toughness either. The basic idea is just to kill and kill even more with Red Fury.

[Askari]

Yeah I think Ogre Blade vs. Sword of Strife is a little bit of metagame adaptation. In a large tournament where I can expect to face all armies I'd probably downgrade the 4+ ward to 5+ so I can have a Potion of Strength to deal with the likes of Chaos Knights and Warsphinxes. But in my Skaven & Elf dominated locality, extra attacks definitely win over extra strength.

[Ville]

Heh, it's always amusing when I find myself grinding Goblins with S7, what a waste. But I like consistency and I bet my opponents like knowing my gear beforehand too.

[Luvadin]

Exactly, I believe that besides a blender Lord (which I don't use but still believe he may make back his points), combat vampires or wight kings don't add that much to you army, being that because they are not especially tough (vampire) or because the BSB function is not so important for a VC army or he does not make that many kills (wight king). It is true you always have the menace of KB with the latter, but your grave guard also has KB and you can even focus in anihilation the unit instead of attacking the lord to get better CR.

[Symrivven]

I generally have Lance on my blender lord, str 7 on the charge is great, and if its not charging a horde, chances are it will break or destroy whatever it is charging turn one. The benefit for me is that it gives some extra freedom in the magic item department while still giving him a real punch in close combat. Certainly against elves and skaven str 5 is all you need and then extra attacks real shine, but I feel safer if I know I have the strength to punch trough armour and high toughness monsters.

[SteelTitan]

My version:

Vampire Lord
Red Fury, Quickblood, Beguile, Ogre Blade, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Heavy Armour, Level 2.

Many people combine Red Fury with a magic weapon that grants extra attacks. I prefer to boost his strength with Ogre Blade so he negates most armour saves and doesn't care much about high Toughness either. The basic idea is just to kill and kill even more with Red Fury.

Same as mine with:

+ Shield
+ Dragonhelm
+ Level 4

I totally agree with you on the strength vs more attacks thing. Askari makes a great point though.

When trying out my cav bus setup, I will def try out the lance and switch back the the extra attacks. Best of both worlds.

[Methios]

Soo i am planning to buy a new army. Is VC better off or worse with the new book? Tomb Kings seem more versitile then VC right now. But i love the black knight and graveguard models...
Also...how do you deel with shooty armies like WE/dwarfs/ogres,

[Spoonie]

Speaking of blender lords, where to put one? Ghouls seem like a good place, as they're decent at combat but could use the help to tip the scales.The only other thing I can think of is black knights. Gets the lord an armor save and mobility, but at 220-250ish points out of special, it really cuts in to the crypt horror budget, y'know? Makes me want to see if he can hang when he's in a unit of skeletons if I'm not running ghouls. Black knights are sweet looking and everything, but at 2k the points are tight and crypt horrors are super kick-ass.

[Askari]

Vampire Counts are certainly above Tomb Kings in a win at all costs, best list only, competitive scene. I don't think we're any better or worse off, just more versatile. We depend less on a Grave Guard deathstar of doom and instead, get fresh new units to fill what we lost (usually, a 200pt Drakenhof BSB), which can now be spent on better things like Crypt Horrors. Ghouls are still the best Core choice, although the others will do the job at stalling.

Wood Elves, I can't really comment on them much as I don't face them, but seeing as they're BS-based shooters, with generally low strength values, Ghouls and Grave Guard at T4 should have little to fear - especially as they can be re-raised.

Ogres, much like WoC, are a tough matchup for us, as they can kill faster than we can resurrect, which is doubly worse with crumble when we inevitably lose combat. That said, they usually lack magic attacks and typically have very few units. Mournfangs have little to no static combat res, which means a single Spirit Host can hold them up all game while being a fraction of the cost. Once the Mournfang units are tied up, you're free to concentrate everything on the General's big Ogre unit, as ever a Vampire Lord will make a total mockery of their supposed toughness, and there's only so many Strength 6 Great Weapon/massed poison attacks that Ogres can take. Ironblasters are only really scary if you take Terrorgheists or a Lord on Zombie Dragon - even then we have the perfect human shields in Crypt Horrors. You can manage the kills that Leadbelchers deal out unless they've maxed out on them.

Dwarfs, well they typically castle up and shoot you to pieces while having difficult to break blocks holding the line. Lucky then that Vampires have plenty of fast/flying options to just run over the blocks and chop the warmachines to pieces. I think Master Necromancer lists may struggle against the Dwarfs' potent magic defence, but the key is to not rely on magic too much, it's a bonus - not a baseline. Make sure your blocks are large enough to take hits and remain effective, you don't want a single fluffed magic phase leave you too weak to take on Dwarf Warriors.
______________________
As for the location of blender Lords - wherever he's needed. Against things like Empire, Goblins or Skaven, I sometimes put him in Skeleton blocks so I have three combat units for my opponent to deal with (Skeletons + Lord, Ghouls, Grave Guard). Whereas against Warrior-heavy Chaos or Ogres I'll stick him in the Grave Guard to counter the inevitable Gutstar/Chosenstar/Khorne Halberd Warriors deathstar vs. deathstar.

Ghouls is generally a good place to put him, and it's where he goes when facing anything inbetween the above - Orcs, Elves, Bretonnians. Gives them two things to worry about.

[riven5]

In addition to the above comment about VC vs. OK, I'd like to say that Terrorgheists quite effective against OK.

...I say this as someone who plays OK first and foremost of my Fantasy games. They're big mean stupid heads and I hate them. Ironblasters can (and should) focus them down quickly though, so be wary of that extremely distinct possibility.

[Askari]

Yeah Terrorgheists vs. Ogres is a bit of the Hexwraiths vs. Chaos Knights scenario - both excel against each other.

[SteelTitan]

Speaking of blender lords, where to put one? Ghouls seem like a good place, as they're decent at combat but could use the help to tip the scales.The only other thing I can think of is black knights. Gets the lord an armor save and mobility, but at 220-250ish points out of special, it really cuts in to the crypt horror budget, y'know? Makes me want to see if he can hang when he's in a unit of skeletons if I'm not running ghouls. Black knights are sweet looking and everything, but at 2k the points are tight and crypt horrors are super kick-ass.

I'll just throw in my thoughts on the matter. Lately, Ive used my Lord in a unit of Ghouls as well. Ghouls can do a fair bit of damage but with VHD on them, they become a great killy unit! My lord usualy has VHD (level 4, so you either roll it right away or roll doubles and choose it yourself) as does a necro with the Book of Arkhan. The downside of Ghouls however is that they can die FAST! Without the support of the lord I've had very mediocre results, where their kills were quite easily offset by their casualties. By sticking the lord in there it really puts almost any combat in their favour.
In that sense, I actually rely more on my ghouls than on my grave guard.

I actually find it rather difficult to get the Grave Guard working for me. The 1 attack per model really makes target selection important.

I think that has been my biggest lesson; that you cannot just expect ghouls and grave guard to win combats for you by shoving them forward. Both have their prefered targets which they excel at. Finding your grave guard fight a unit that the ghouls should have engaged, or the other way around, usually means you're in a bad spot.

Feel free to disagree Im happy to hear thoughts of others.

[datalink7]

Heh, it's always amusing when I find myself grinding Goblins with S7, what a waste. But I like consistency and I bet my opponents like knowing my gear beforehand too.

There is this, but I too prefer +2 strength. What really tipped it in favor of the Ogre Blade was one game where I played against Lizardmen and my vampire lord (with +2 attacks) couldn't chew threw a Stegadon. If I had the Ogre Blade, I would have wond the combat easy. As it was, they held up that unit (double stegadon charge) for long enough to grind down the rest of my army and won the game.

Sure, sometimes it is a waste. But I like being able to deal with multiple kinds of targets.

[Spoonie]

Lately, Ive used my Lord in a unit of Ghouls as well.

That's what my gut has been telling me. They're solid enough to not risk crumbling the lord, but mediocre enough that they could certainly use his help. I'm still debating whether to run mine in ghouls like that or run with a skeleton based list and maybe put my lord in with black knights. Sort of a form versus function decision. Ah well, still got grave guard to paint till I really have to decide.

There is this, but I too prefer +2 strength.

Very tough call. Normally I'd go with strength, but with red fury every extra attack is potentially 2 more kills, which is super juicy. I think sword of strife or even sword of bloodshed with a potion of strength is a nice compromise. Depends on the people you play, I suppose. Giving up the option for a ward could be dangerous against greatweapon troopers if your opponents actually direct attacks at your vamp.

[Symrivven]

Indeed when taking the extra attacks swords bring along a potion of strength in case you just happen to run into a unit of knights or a big monster. There is a certain charm about 7 asf rerol 3+ to hit strength 8 attacks that multiply. Put a 5+ ward save and the dragon helm on the vampire and you are ready to go.