Vampire Counts: 8th Edition Tactica

[Askari]

Phew, got more reviewing to do yet!

Common Character/Unit Builds

Blender Vampire Lord

Vampire Lord decked out with offensive gear - Sword of Strife/Ogre Blade/Sword of Bloodshed. Potion of Strength/Other Trickster's Shard. Talisman of 4+/5+ ward. Heavy Armour. Shield/Enchanted Shield/Dragonhelm. RED FURY, QUICKBLOOD. Capital letters for importance. You can also give him Wizard levels if a) points too short for Master Necromancer support or b) fits a theme. Has one main job, jump on a unit and kill it dead. It does this quite well, and as you probably want a Level 4 caster anyway this is the perfect dual-purpose character. Very expensive.

Double-Shriek King

Strigoi Ghoul King with Skabscrath, Curse of the Revenant, Terrorgheist. All other items optional. Supposed way to get an extra Shriek into the army, but at this cost it's very vulnerable to cannons and costs more than two seperate Terrorgheists, which having more wounds and able to target different units, are strictly better at the same job.

Sacrifical Necromancer

Base level 1 Necromancer with the Forbidden Rod. Mortis Engine users like the Seed of Rebirth to try and save the Necromancer. Job is to provide an extra Invocation until Winds of Magic roll low, then the poor sod gets sacrificed to the Rod for the greater good of +d6 Power dice.

Fear-bomb Vampire

Vampire hero with Fear Incarnate and Aura of Dark Majesty. Defensive gear keeps him alive long enough for the power to swing combats - I'd recommend Armour of Silvered Steel/Luckstone/Great Weapon or Heavy Armour/Enchanted Shield/Dawnstone/Magic weapon. Glittering Scales also an option if you want to risk it not working. Always placed in Screaming Banner bearing unit - usually Skeletons.

Balerion mentioned Supernatural Terror probably a better choice than Aura against Ogre/other fear-causing enemies.

Anti-Abomination Knights

A personal favourite of mine, due to Hydra/Abominations around. 4 Blood Knights (i.e. minimum) with the Banner of Eternal Flame. Statistically average rolls kill aforementioned monsters on the charge, before they strike, for similar points cost. Fast enough to get the charge, do the deed, then flank units afterward.

[SteelTitan]

It's probably a good way to go, with a fast-moving Vampire Counts list. Like I said I've been itching to use my new Blood Knights now, but I imagine Black Knights are overall a better choice to accompany a blender Lord.

In that situation, I'd gear the Vampire hero to take down monsters. The blender Lord can scythe ranks of infantry, while the Vampire Hero might get a Great Weapon or Ogre Blade for some truly high Strength attacks, or perhaps be a challenge taker with Dread Knight, Quickblood, Glittering Scales and Other Trickster's Shard. I wouldn't bother with the Wight King BSB as the unit can already take the Banner of the Barrows from their allotment, if you truly wanted a second magic banner you can just make the Vampire hero a BSB with say... Flaming Banner, Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Barded Nightmare, Quickblood (to cancel out the GW) or Screaming Banner, Lance, Shield, Heavy Armour, Barded Nightmare, Fear Incarnate, Aura of Dark Majesty. That way you get the benefit of BSB and extra Invocation, while the Vampire still has a reasonable defence due to a high armour save.

For support I'd either use a small unit of Blood Knights (i.e. 4) with Flaming Banner for monster hunting. Or just a couple of Varghulfs who are good enough and fast enough to operate on their own.

Core would be pretty standard but with more favour given to Dire Wolves due to their speed. Any other block will probably need a Necromancer and Book of Arkhan to let them keep up with the mounted parts of the army.

This is mostly theoretical I admit, but it makes sense in my head.

Kudos Askari! Good to see a quick review on VC!



On the subject of the above / Black Knight Buss:

I want to share my initial experiences after trying it out. My list was Blender Lord, Fear Bomb Vampire in 10 Black Knights, 2x40 Skeletons, 2x20 Zombies with 2 necromancers (Book of Arkhan, Dispel Scroll), 3 spirit hosts, 2x2 bats, 2x5 wolves and a varghulf.

The army consists of three groups:
1. The endless tarpit (skeletons and zombies + raising with 2x level 1 necro)
2. The hammer (lord, hero + black knights (+varghulf))
3. The annoying part (chaff + redirectors (+varghulf))


Outdeploying my opponent is really quite important in this list. It allows me to save the most critical unit in the army (the hammer) until last and deploy it on the flank where I can either get in combat fastest, score as many VP as possible, or where I can start rolling down the line asap (while avoiding high S units / tarpits / etc). Group 3 is therefore really really important. With so many small units I even managed to outdeploy a Skaven army. Getting that one unit into position is key. All the opponent can do is guess (50/50%) on which flank the unit is gonna go.

Group 3 then also plays an important role in making sure the hammer gets the matchups / charges is wants by holding back and redirecting incoming units. Fell Bats do this well. While staying inside the general's range, they can easily intercept incoming units with their 20" move and hold them up for a turn.

Group 1 is there to hold up the centre of the enemy's army until the Hammer cleared the way and is ready to charge in. What I've done so far is holding group 2 back, even moving back at times, to make sure they are in combat as late as possible. Despite their numbers, it is very possible to destroy most of group 1 in two or three turns. Therefore, commiting group 1 early is problematic because, despite their rather sacrificial-ish role, it's a lot of VP if the enemy manages to kill all of it. In that case, a solid win is out of the window. Again, here Group 3 comes in by holding up the centre and making sure group 1 is in combat as late as possible.

A quick word on group 2 (the hammer); it doesn't die. The ability to bring back 4+1 plus 1+1 (or 2+1 if you invest the points in upgrading the vampire) black knights is great. Here again, getting the right fights is really important. I can't see it going anywhere if you charge the unit into Great Swords or other high S targets as the main strength of the hammer is their high armour save. So, avoid hordes of high S models that can easily kill 10 black knights in one or two rounds. The fact that the enemy will probably be WS1 due to the Fear Bomb Vampire makes the unit very very survivable. Even after being shot up by cannons I easily raised stuff back to full strength and just kept on fighting.

Main drawback until now is the risk of the hammer not being able to collect enough VP to compensate for the other two groups dying. (If everything goes well, group 1 shouldn't all die but not everything goes to plan all the time). Group 3 usually doesn't survive the game because their sacrificial role to hold up/divert units is just too important for this list.

The extra movement on the hammer (or blender lord delivery unit) makes a huge difference. I know this was a point of debate earlier on but all I can say is that the difference is very very noticeable. After playing many games with infantry units + lord, the 3d6 and extra 4" on the charge + overrunning and pursueing faster makes a BIG difference and adds a lot of flexibility as to where to commit the unit.

So much for my quick review of this particular list/strategy.

[Spoonie]

Yeah I was thinking maybe starting a cav lord and his unit on the edge of the battle line so they could march once before moving him off might be enough momentum for the core blocks to get to the fight, but it sounds like your plan was basically to 'stall' the game and then try to get enough VPs for a win with the lord's unit and hopefully leave your opponent with too little time to grind down the tar pits. I wouldn't have thought to 'play the clock', as it were, with Vampires, I don't think.

Generally I'm more of a meat and potatoes kind of guy, but I like the finesse-y aspect of that idea.

[Ville]

Absolutely awesome job, Askari!

There's the foundation for a great Tactica. Will you review the magic lore(s) too or should it have its own topic?

[SteelTitan]

Yeah I was thinking maybe starting a cav lord and his unit on the edge of the battle line so they could march once before moving him off might be enough momentum for the core blocks to get to the fight, but it sounds like your plan was basically to 'stall' the game and then try to get enough VPs for a win with the lord's unit and hopefully leave your opponent with too little time to grind down the tar pits. I wouldn't have thought to 'play the clock', as it were, with Vampires, I don't think.

Generally I'm more of a meat and potatoes kind of guy, but I like the finesse-y aspect of that idea.

I like your 'play the clock' The thing is, I don't think the list works if you do it any other way. There's soooo many points in that one unit (around 1100 points) that there's not enough good support to make "group 1 (the tarpits)" survive fights for long, let alone win them.

I think VC gets too little credit for being the army that it is. It's generally said that it's a good beginners' army and forgiving to play with. Sure, they don't run away and you can regrow your units but smart opponents will dispel the really important IoNs. I actually think it's quite the finesse army where planning your deployment right and making sure you get the right matchups is extremely important. So if that's what you meant with 'meat and patatoes' (straightforward), I don't know if I agree.

I usually try to make sure that at least some redirectors are within general's range. It's especially nice if the Dire Wolves are still in range after their Vanguard. Like you said, I don't really care if the tarpits move slowly (or not at all). The more the enemy comes towards me, the more room I have to move around in his back lines once the hammer breaks through.

[Arnizipal]

Phew, got more reviewing to do yet!

Let me know when you feel it's completed.
I'll start the new tactica using those posts.

[Askari]

Absolutely awesome job, Askari!

There's the foundation for a great Tactica. Will you review the magic lore(s) too or should it have its own topic?

I'll do the Lore of the Vampires spell by spell.... uh... now. And I'll give an overview for the other Lores we can access (spell by spell breakdowns for them are available elsewhere). Then I'll consider this complete - assuming I'll still have the ability to edit in bits and bobs in the new tactica.

So, without further ado;

The Lore of the Vampires

The Curse of Undeath - Lore Attribute
Identical to the Lore of Life's lifebloom, it's a truly great attribute, especially with the relatively low casting values on our spells mean we can get lots of spells off to heal numerous wounds. Take special note that, if your Wizard and other characters are unharmed, you can use this on our numerous multi-wound models as well. Especially good on Vargheists, Spirit Hosts and Varghulfs who are limited to healing 1 wound a cast with Invocation.

Invocation of Nehek - Signature Spell

It doesn't take a genius to see this spell is important. Resurrecting Zombies and Skeletons is all well and good, but resurrecting 5-10 Grave Guard, or 5 Black Knights per casting (on a Level 4) is just ludicrously good. If you're able, go for the 12" version, it should affect the entire main battle line with this and will be harder to dispel - the 18" version is a little bit expensive in power dice to be of much use - you'd get more use casting the 6" twice with different casters.

Vanhel's Danse Macabre

You need to somehow ensure you get this spell, as it's not a Signature like Invocation you're only getting one of these. This is why the Book of Arkhan is important as well. Especially with no marching outside of the general's radius, this can allow the opposite flank keep up with the army - or better, slingshot cavalry behind the enemy, there's a real oppotunity to have cavalry behind enemy lines by the shooting phase of turn 1, and have them charging warmachines at the tip of turn 2.

That's not all, once combat begins you gain re-rolls to hit. Amazing on Ghouls for more of those precious 6s, but good on everything. At only 12+ to cast for a 12" aura, it's a beastly spell. Sneaky tricks, hype up the power of Invocation to your opponent, say things like "Woah! Those 7 Grave Guard you killed are now back alive!", let him waste dispel dice on Invocation, this spell is more important in a great many cases.

Hellish Vigour

Re-rolls to hit are generally better than re-rolls to wound, especially when you get the former on a lower casting value with alternative effects. That being said it's impressive on Grave Guard, due to Killing Blow - although you should have Great Weapons which reduce the efficiency of this spell. It's still a pretty potent spell and certainly worth casting.

Gaze of Nagash

Reasonably powerful magic missile with decent range and moderate casting value, S4 means it wounds decently well and affects armour. This is alright, great for things like Sabertusks, Outriders, and especially pesky Skinks. No complaints at all.

Raise Dead

Summon a unit of Zombies anywhere near the caster? Handy if something gets by your redirectors, or has some unexpected entry system which leaves you open (Dwarf Miners and Gutter Runners come to mind). These can delay them. Unless you have a Master of the Dead Master Necromancer I wouldn't try the Skeleton Warrior version, they'll be too small to buff up and quite likely killed off before your next magic phase - stick to the Zombies and Invocation them up if you need to.

Curse of Years

Pretty potent spell, can be used to try and snipe certain models - although no opponent worth his salt will leave it undispelled so that it wounds easier. Casting this can be a form of magical defence, forcing the enemy to waste dice dispelling the Remains in Play instead of using them on your forces.

Wind of Death

High casting value magical vortex. It's not Purple Sun, although S3 no armour saves can hurt certain units (Greatswords, perhaps), it's quite random in the distance travelled and how many hits it inflicts, no it doesn't hit everyone under the template, that would make it useful. No, this is probably the best option to switch out for Invocation.

Other Lores

Lore of Shadow

Everyone knows how powerful this lore is, and it remains so for Vampire Counts. However, it's 6th spell is decidedly useless for Vampires - Okkam's Mindrazor makes Zombies, Terrorgheists and Varghulfs worse at fighting. The debuff spells are welcome however, due to our generally poor stats, if you lower the enemy to be equally poor, you'll win through attrition.

Lore of Death

I've seen the idea of the Zombie Battery, casting Purple Sun through them to gain Power dice from the lore attribute - a little bit gamey but I guess it works. Assuming you have that spell of course. Character sniping is quite useful to Vampires, as you don't want anything to threaten that all-important General, and killing off the BSB helps a lot with Fear tests and fleeing enemies. In larger games, i.e. where you already have 2 Lore of the Vampires casters, I see no issue with having a Death wizard somewhere in the army.

Lore of Beasts

Only available through Forbidden Lore, you're taking it for the signature spell - Wyssan's Wildform. That spell alone makes our units just horrendous to face. T6 Crypt Horrors? S6 T5 Blood Knights? T5 Ghouls! Yeah it's not fun for anyone. Sadly, the lack of Forbidden Lore on Necromancers means you pay a hefty price for this one spell, so save it for large games.

[the_picto]

How successfull do people find their blender lords? Sword of bloodshed, quickblood and red fury against an unarmoured enemy that is hit on 3+ and wounded on 2+ (almost ideal circumstances) statistically causes about 8 wounds. Is that really that impressive for 400pts worth of vampire? You're still not going to win combat unless you put him in an expensive unit of graveguard, ghouls or black knights, making for a very expensive combined unit.

[Arnizipal]

Thread locked as requested.

A new thread has been created here, based on Askari's posts.

Enjoy,

Arnizipal,

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