Starting up a Gang

[Hrokka `Eadsplitter]

So, I've set my mind up on starting Necromunda - partially by the reason that Mordheim gangs don't have autoguns^^

Now, the Necromunda BRB is out of stock at my local shop, so I'm about to download the pdf.
Could anyone give me a quick summary of the Gangs, the city, the setting etc? What's the pros of Necromunda and what's the cons?
I'm so far leaning at the GW Goliath gang since I like their look - but I'm not to keen on their fluff.
House Orlock sounds rather tough, but since I can't find any specific info on them I can't get hold of what they do better, worse and what their fluff is.
Also, tips on how to best build a gang are greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

[Incoming]

Google the words "Necromunda Community edition". That is a good ruleset.

[Askil the Undecided]

I still don't understand how a ruleset that spoonfeeds rather than inspires is "good" but it is at least complete unlike the official book.

[Necanthrope]

After the boxed game went out of print GW published Necromunda and the outlanders supplement in a big yellow book. This is the best thing you can get.
Nothing wrong with the Necromunda:underhive rules, but I don't see why they brought in the house weapon lists, and left out the outlander gangs.

The big yellow book has everything you'll ever need rules wise for Necromunda. You will have to find some sustained fire dice though, unless you want to use the rules for sustained fire from the Necromunda:underhive pdf.

[simonr1978]

I still don't understand how a ruleset that spoonfeeds rather than inspires is "good" but it is at least complete unlike the official book.

Spoonfeeds? Hardly. I fail to see how a rules set which has ambiguous passages and can allow opposing players to arrive at a given point with completely different interpretations over what should happen is good either. Clear writing does not have to equal less fun. I would much rather spend my limited gaming time actually gaming instead of wasting time with rules disputes. That definitely is not fun. YMMV though...

And, no. It's not completely unlike the official book. It has differences, mostly fairly minor tweaks and clarifications but it is not completely unlike it at all. Just because you dislike it doesn't mean you have to exaggerate what you percieve as its flaws.

Honestly, I really don't get the hatred you seem to have for the Community Edition.

Anyway...

So, I've set my mind up on starting Necromunda - partially by the reason that Mordheim gangs don't have autoguns^^

Now, the Necromunda BRB is out of stock at my local shop, so I'm about to download the pdf.
Could anyone give me a quick summary of the Gangs, the city, the setting etc? What's the pros of Necromunda and what's the cons?
I'm so far leaning at the GW Goliath gang since I like their look - but I'm not to keen on their fluff.
House Orlock sounds rather tough, but since I can't find any specific info on them I can't get hold of what they do better, worse and what their fluff is.
Also, tips on how to best build a gang are greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

You're generally best off sticking to the main gangs from the main rulebook to start off with (Escher, Orlock, Van Saar, Delaque, Cawdor, Goliath) rather than Outlanders which generally are best in the hands of a more experienced player (Ratskins, Scavvies), can be open to abuse (Redemptionists) or IMO look downright dull in a campaign (Enforcers).

The Pros of Necromunda are that it's generally pretty low cost, you'll rarely need more than 20 figures to last you a campaign, it's an engaging game especially in a campaign as you follow the development of your gang and the individual fighters that make it and if you've got a passing familiarity with any edition of 40K/WHFB you should find it very easy to pick up.

The Cons, it's a Specialist Game. This means that models and opponents can be hard to find. If you play WYSIWYG (Which you should to a reasonable degree IMO) you may end up having to convert models. You're unlikely to be able to play in a GW store. You will need a fair bit of multi-level terrain.

The gangs, apart from the House Weapons lists (Which didn't appear in the original version), are identical to begin with. It's only once you get into a campaign that the differences will become apparent which is basically down to the relevant Skills tables. The best advice I can give I think is to go with the range you like the look of best. Orlock are good alrounders though. Van Saars generally pull ahead in a campaign due to their ready access to Techno Skills.

Necromunda can be pretty much anything you make it. Wild West style Settlements and Homesteads, to rough and ready looking factories with gantries and walkways. The important thing for games is a good range of multi level terrain and a good balance of LoS blocking and cover providing terrain. You can have too much, if no-one can see further than 12" then there's no reason to take anything larger than a pistol, if practically everyone can easily see from one end of the board to the other it just becomes basically a dice-off with luck determining who drops first.

As for the gang itself. The general advice is usually that it's best to take 9 members to start off with. This places you in the 7-9 bracket for Income purposes whilst still needing 3 members out for determining compulsory Bottle rolls, that said if you end up with 10 or 11 fighters it'll only cost you 10 credits a game so it's not going to be the end of the world. Try to take at least 5 Gangers, you start with 5 territories so you want to be able to work as many of them as possible.

Juves are good in a campaign, they level up to become gangers quite quickly and if you can avoid getting them needlessly injured they can be more effective fighters in the long run. Or they can remain borderline useless, that's part of the fun. If you want mobile meat shields, IMO you're best taking a couple of cheap hired guns.

Try to take 2 Heavies to start off with if you can, even if you can't fund the second heavy/special weapon at the start.

That's about all I can think of at the moment.

[Hrokka `Eadsplitter]

You're generally best off sticking to the main gangs from the main rulebook to start off with (Escher, Orlock, Van Saar, Delaque, Cawdor, Goliath) rather than Outlanders which generally are best in the hands of a more experienced player (Ratskins, Scavvies), can be open to abuse (Redemptionists) or IMO look downright dull in a campaign (Enforcers).

The Pros of Necromunda are that it's generally pretty low cost, you'll rarely need more than 20 figures to last you a campaign, it's an engaging game especially in a campaign as you follow the development of your gang and the individual fighters that make it and if you've got a passing familiarity with any edition of 40K/WHFB you should find it very easy to pick up.

The Cons, it's a Specialist Game. This means that models and opponents can be hard to find. If you play WYSIWYG (Which you should to a reasonable degree IMO) you may end up having to convert models. You're unlikely to be able to play in a GW store. You will need a fair bit of multi-level terrain.

The gangs, apart from the House Weapons lists (Which didn't appear in the original version), are identical to begin with. It's only once you get into a campaign that the differences will become apparent which is basically down to the relevant Skills tables. The best advice I can give I think is to go with the range you like the look of best. Orlock are good alrounders though. Van Saars generally pull ahead in a campaign due to their ready access to Techno Skills.

Necromunda can be pretty much anything you make it. Wild West style Settlements and Homesteads, to rough and ready looking factories with gantries and walkways. The important thing for games is a good range of multi level terrain and a good balance of LoS blocking and cover providing terrain. You can have too much, if no-one can see further than 12" then there's no reason to take anything larger than a pistol, if practically everyone can easily see from one end of the board to the other it just becomes basically a dice-off with luck determining who drops first.

As for the gang itself. The general advice is usually that it's best to take 9 members to start off with. This places you in the 7-9 bracket for Income purposes whilst still needing 3 members out for determining compulsory Bottle rolls, that said if you end up with 10 or 11 fighters it'll only cost you 10 credits a game so it's not going to be the end of the world. Try to take at least 5 Gangers, you start with 5 territories so you want to be able to work as many of them as possible.

Juves are good in a campaign, they level up to become gangers quite quickly and if you can avoid getting them needlessly injured they can be more effective fighters in the long run. Or they can remain borderline useless, that's part of the fun. If you want mobile meat shields, IMO you're best taking a couple of cheap hired guns.

Try to take 2 Heavies to start off with if you can, even if you can't fund the second heavy/special weapon at the start.

That's about all I can think of at the moment.

Thanks for the advice
For now, I'm swaying between Orlock, Delaque or Goliath - Orlock seems running pretty efficiently and simple(great for starting^^), while Delaque is rather stealthy and seem perfect for my run of the mill shady snipers and underhanded dealers. The Goliaths... I just love the minis
They look like the Raiders from Fallout 3 - and seriously, who can not like a mini carrying a heavy stubber and with a mohawk?^^

So, which gang is either easiest to play or most fun?
And what would be a good set up for a gang?
Cheers

Edit:
Is armor as useless in Necromunda as it is in Mordheim? Every weapon seems to have an armor negater that does 6+ saves useless - and that kind of credit seem stupid to waste^^

[Incoming]

The gangs develop individually and quite random. So pick the gang that you most like the look of and want to create. Its dice that decides what skills and stat increases you get anyways. 2 Heavies is best. But my first gang went for more Gangers to max income in the beginning.

[amijp]

Sorry to jack this thread, but that 'big yellow book' sounds perfect for me as I've lost my outlanders book, and I'd rather buy this combination rather than another standalone book.

Do you know the official name for it though? If I type 'big yellow book' into ebay all I'm
gonna find is tones of old yellow pages...

[Catferret]

Sorry to jack this thread, but that 'big yellow book' sounds perfect for me as I've lost my outlanders book, and I'd rather buy this combination rather than another standalone book.

Do you know the official name for it though? If I type 'big yellow book' into ebay all I'm
gonna find is tones of old yellow pages...

Search "Necromunda Hardback". It was the only hardback Necromunda book.

Here's one on Ebay just now. There's a couple others on sale but they're Buy It Now £30.

[amijp]

That's brilliant mate, thanks.

[Hrokka `Eadsplitter]

What's the differences between the yellow book and the underhive book(Which I guess ist the one they're selling in Specialist Games)?
And what exactly is meant by 'House weapons'?
Cheers

[BigRob]

The "Big Yellow Book" they talk of is the two original Necromunda rule and sourcebooks and its expansion (Outlanders) in one easy to use hardback. GW had stopped selling the old box sets but released this hardback, the terrain, and the plastic gangers seperatly.

Then GW stopped making Sustained Fire Dice.

So along came "Underhive", a nice rulebook that changed a few rules to remove things like sustained firedice and multiple templates (Now handflamers are simply one shot flamers for example). The problem is they changed a few other things and left in an unbelievable amount of typos, spelling and grammer mistakes (even more than I have made in this post!) and the house weapon rules are one of the more annoying changes. Back in the day, when you started a gang everyone had the same choices. House weapons are meant to restrict each gang to "fluffy" choices but for the most part its badly thought out leaving some stupidly powerful and others pitifully weak and in some cases, some models unusable.

Personal opinion these days is to simply ignore the house weapon rules, especially when you have the GW released PDF for making your own gang (where you choose your skill and weapon lists...... ). Find what works best for your gaming group and playstyle is my advice.

Have fun

[Demoulius]

Ive started our campaign using an Orlock gang and I must say that the skillset for the gang are pretty awesome! My friend runs a Goliath gang and everytime he rolls a skill other than on a roll of 2 or 12 I hear him cuss that he cant pick a ranged skill

Shooting skills are pretty awesome for gangers (and juves with the right upgrades) and juves with combat and/or ferocity skills become pretty bad ass in combat (should you ever reach it )

Im afraid to go near my buddies Goliath juves though... Theyre loaded with skills and id like to keep my melee weapons and gangers in one piece

Delaque seem like a pretty good gang as well btw agility and stealth bring some pretty major advantages when setting up and moving around the tabletop... Theyre just not made for combat

[Spectrar Ghost]

I went with Van Saar, as they have a ranged emphasis, and Techno skills are pretty hard to get otherwise. Of course of the eight men in my gang now, I've lost both Heavies, and have two Gangers (and my Gang Leader) who are very CC oriented.

Nero Kasrholm is WS5, S4, 2 Attacks with a Laspistol and Sword.

Quentin Plaice is WS3, 3 Attacks, has a Chainsword (S4 in CC), with Combat Master, Hip Shooting, Jump Back, and Parry (so 2 Parries with the Chainsword)

Barth Gorowitz, my Gang Leader, is WS4, S4, T4, 3 Wounds, with a Power Sword and Plasma Pistol.

So my gang is slowly becoming more and more in your face, despite the general tendancy of Van Saar to be ranged specialists.

[thorgrim]

I love using my Orlocks. Personally when starting a gang i always include 2 heavies and 7 gangers. Usually my leader will only have a chainsword and a laspistol, the heavies a heavy stubber and a flamer (sometimes the flamers replaced with a stub pistol and more juves are bought though), the gangers a mix of shotguns with manstoppers, lasguns and autoguns (or other kit so there around 75 each), if i can strech i'll have a juve with a laspistol and a ratskin scout. I work on the premise that its best to secure a strong income then worry about the shiny stuff later hence the ratskin and plenty of gangers to work territories.

[Hrokka `Eadsplitter]

Thanks for all the advice
I've decided to go with an Orlock gang - converting them to look more like mercenaries and desperados (Trenchcoats, shotguns, heavy stubbers etc) from Empire Militia, IG and Bretonnian bitz^^
Also, my names might be a bit...

My list so far:

Raven
Gang leader
Chain sword, shotgun, manstopper shells - 170 credits

Nikolai Obrez
Heavy
Heavy stubber, laspistol - 195 credits

Irish
Heavy
Flamer, laspistol - 125 credits

Lazarus
Ganger
Autogun, club - 80 credits

Donowitz
Ganger
Shotgun, baseball bat(club^^) - 75

Viktor Dragunov
Ganger
Lasgun, frag grenades - 105

Kain
Ganger
Lasgun, bludgeon - 80

Mohawk Martin
Juve
Autopistol, frag grenade - 65 credits

Khan
Juve
Laspistol - 40 credits

Total = 935 credits
Stash - 65 credits

Any tips on what to drop, what to add and whether it's viable? ^^
Cheers

[zerodemon]

I'd always pay the extra 5 credits and upgrade my autogun to a lasgun if I were you. 2+ ammo roll and -1 save mod for 5 credits? Yes please.

[simonr1978]

I'd always pay the extra 5 credits and upgrade my autogun to a lasgun if I were you. 2+ ammo roll and -1 save mod for 5 credits? Yes please.

I've honestly never found the ammo roll of an autogun to be that big an issue personally and armour in general is rare in Necromunda so the save modifier is usually a non-issue too. The way I usually see it is that an Autogun is in almost all practical respects the same as a Lasgun but cheaper, so if I'm kitting out a four man fireteam I'll buy them Autoguns and I'll have 20 credits left over for little to no loss in effectiveness compared to a 4 man Lasgun fireteam.

I'll take the occasional Lasgun for variety though.

I agree with Askil that the clubs are unnecessary on your basic weapon armed gangers.

If you lose the clubs and frags for the Juve you'll free enough credits to hire and equip another ganger then you can hopefully work all your territories, as Demoulius said.

Your gang seems a little light on close combat capability so a CC ganger with a pistol and sword to team up with your Juves would probably be better than another basic gunner. It might be worth re-equipping a basic gunner for close combat too.

Autopistols are better than Laspistols, especially for Juves where the -1 to hit at long range will really hurt a Juve's chances of hitting and that alone more than offsets the Laspistol's better ammo roll.

If you can free up the credits, I'd recommend upgrading to Bolt shells for the leader for the increased range to make the most of his BS4 and a backup sidearm, just in case his shotgun jams because you really don't want your BS4 leader stood around with no ranged weapons at all.

[Hrokka `Eadsplitter]

A few question as to roster.

Why have you given clubs to gangers with basic weapons who are better used beyond pistol range?

Why have you given expensive frags to a bullet sponge Juve?

I noticed than every model has a S4 weapon it's just not necessary, a lighter equipped gang with more feet on the ground would probably be better in the long run.

Firstly, they had clubs if they would run out of ammo or finding themselves cornered at close range - fixed though.
And the juve with frags was to make sure that the meatshields had some punch - taken away.

I've honestly never found the ammo roll of an autogun to be that big an issue personally and armour in general is rare in Necromunda so the save modifier is usually a non-issue too. The way I usually see it is that an Autogun is in almost all practical respects the same as a Lasgun but cheaper, so if I'm kitting out a four man fireteam I'll buy them Autoguns and I'll have 20 credits left over for little to no loss in effectiveness compared to a 4 man Lasgun fireteam.

I'll take the occasional Lasgun for variety though.

I agree with Askil that the clubs are unnecessary on your basic weapon armed gangers.

If you lose the clubs and frags for the Juve you'll free enough credits to hire and equip another ganger then you can hopefully work all your territories, as Demoulius said.

Your gang seems a little light on close combat capability so a CC ganger with a pistol and sword to team up with your Juves would probably be better than another basic gunner. It might be worth re-equipping a basic gunner for close combat too.

Autopistols are better than Laspistols, especially for Juves where the -1 to hit at long range will really hurt a Juve's chances of hitting and that alone more than offsets the Laspistol's better ammo roll.

If you can free up the credits, I'd recommend upgrading to Bolt shells for the leader for the increased range to make the most of his BS4 and a backup sidearm, just in case his shotgun jams because you really don't want your BS4 leader stood around with no ranged weapons at all.

I personally mostly take what I like for fluffy reasons, so autoguns just seem more appropriate - plus, I like 'em better than the lasguns.

About the lack of CC - I can't find any ruleset except Underhive - and since it's most common I'll stick with it.
My Orlocks don't have access swords (*********** house weapons..) - so I'm off relying to clubs and chains (my next list..) - also, why aren't shotguns more CC oriented? They should have a template or something.

The bolt shells ****ed up the ammo rolls pretty good - and my notorious bad luck with dice might just kill my leader for good. I'm staying with the Man Stoppers

Here's a re-try on the list:

Regret
Gang leader
Chainsword, shotgun with Manstopper Shells, laspistol - 205 credits (A wee bit to pricy, thinking about dropping the shotgun in favour of something else :/)


Stiglitz
Heavy
Heavy stubber, autopistol - 200 credits

Roast
Heavy
Flamer, autopistol - 120 credits

Max
Ganger
Shotgun - 70 credits
(Max is supposed to move up front with the Juve and Donowitz, covering them if they decide to go into CC)

Dragunov
Ganger
Lasgun, frags - 105 credits
(Dragunov will work as the gangs sniper or ranged support, staying close to the gang leader)

Lazarus
Ganger
Autogun - 70 credits

Khan
Ganger
Autogun - 70 credits

Donowitz (AKA Donny)
Ganger
Chain, autopistol - 80 credits

Mohawk Martin
Juve
Autopistol, club - 55 credits

That's the gang, total of 975 credits spent, 25 stashed.
Any opinions?
CC is weak, but I'll try to shoot my way out of it^^
Cheers

[simonr1978]

Firstly, they had clubs if they would run out of ammo or finding themselves cornered at close range - fixed though.
And the juve with frags was to make sure that the meatshields had some punch - taken away.

Everybody has one free knife so they're never completely defenceless.

I personally mostly take what I like for fluffy reasons, so autoguns just seem more appropriate - plus, I like 'em better than the lasguns.

Me too, that's why you'll usually see at least some stub guns in my gangs, they may be crap but I like the look of them.

About the lack of CC - I can't find any ruleset except Underhive - and since it's most common I'll stick with it.
My Orlocks don't have access swords (*********** house weapons..) - so I'm off relying to clubs and chains (my next list..) - also, why aren't shotguns more CC oriented? They should have a template or something.

A lot of people disregard the House Weapons lists, precisely because of stuff like this. It makes no real sense that something like a plain ordinary sword should be effectively a rare trade for Orlocks.

Shotguns are not close combat orientated at all, they are a basic weapon. Pistols and Close Combat weapons are close combat orientated, by which I mean that in Hand to Hand combat you gain a +1 attack dice for having more than 1 CCW/Pistol (So any Juve with a Stub Gun (Plus their free knife) will gain this advantage). You don't get this if you're carrying a Shotgun, or any basic/special weapon for that matter. In Close Combat your gangers will be fighting at a distinct disadvantage and you have no effective counter charge unit. Relying on ranged gunfire is likely to lead to you either being butchered in HtH, or bunkering down on overwatch since if you move you're likely to risk being charged and OOA'd

I would still recommend rearming a couple of gangers with a CCW and/or a pistol or two, if that's still an option.

Edit: Just re-read and realised I'd missed what you were saying about Shotguns. It's for the broadly the same reason that Autoguns (Roughly analagous to Assault Rifles) aren't, it's a game balance issue as much as anything, if you let people use Shotguns in Close Combat or have Autoguns count as improvised clubs then there isn't much reason to take pistols, swords or clubs.

The bolt shells ****ed up the ammo rolls pretty good - and my notorious bad luck with dice might just kill my leader for good. I'm staying with the Man Stoppers

You only suffer the bad ammo roll when firing the Bolt Shells, any other ammunition you use its respective ammo roll. Don't forget you only have to make ammo rolls if you roll a 6 to hit.

Here's a re-try on the list:

...

Lazarus
Ganger
Autogun - 70 credits

Lazarus should be your Lasgunner IMO

I would agree with upping the backups for the Heavies to Autoguns, especially for the Flamer where you'll be having to take ammo rolls every turn with a 50/50 chance of failing. Use your Flamer Heavy's Autogun most of the time, turn to the Flamer when you can cover multiple targets with it.