Official WarSeer Warhammer 40,000 6th Edition discussion thread

[Tzeentch2003]

I quoted your comment because I was agreeing with you, in fact.

My comment was meant to convey my amusement at the gnashing of teeth over a rumoured rule that we don't know the full wording of, or even if it's going to be printed. Especially when said rule is, as I pointed out, not in any danger whatsoever of breaking the game.

If you aren't one of the OH NO SNAP FIRE THE SKY IS FALLING crowd then no, I didn't mean you.

Ah good. I couldn't tell from the context if you were quoting me to agree or quoting me because you thought my teeth were gnashed somehow. I tend to regard the sky as being firmly in place until it proves to be otherwise. There are so many different possible ways in which just this one rule could be implemented that there is no reason or point to getting bent out of shape about. Speculation on how Snap Fire might be implemented and what it could mean is fun, but that is all it is until we have the full text.

[DeviLution]

Ah good. I couldn't tell from the context if you were quoting me to agree or quoting me because you thought my teeth were gnashed somehow.

Yeah, sorry about that, I should've made that clear.

A point I wanted to make to everyone here by going back to the original comment though: where you mentioned how, in 5th, an assualt that's overly successful tends to find itself on a gunrange staring down a lot of unhappy friends of the unit you just killed.

Even if we get consolidate into assualt back - which if close combat is to be put anywhere near back on par with shooting, we need that rule back - there's still a risk of that scenario above happening. I think, as some one who loves Khorne and Fenrisians, that if my enemies get snapfire, and I get consolidate into assualt, that's a MORE than fair trade.

Anyone who sees my army, either one, will note the many, many chain weapons, and space their units out accordingly in an environment with consolidation assualts. Simply put, snap fire, using ANY wording anyone cares to use, doesn't bother me, because against a worthy foe he won't be using it unless I absolutely force him to.

So, if we get consolidate into assualt back, and we get snap fire? Fine by me! Don't like the idea of firing at BS 1 vs my Wolf Guard, Grey Hunters, Thunderwolf Cav', or Berzerkers? Space you're units out enough that I can't consolidate into them - and that's just ONE way of many to avoid shooting at me with less than your normal shooting skill - there's several others as well (hint - blocking units that you should already be using right now).

But let me repeat this, because it bears repeating - I love close combat armies, and no matter how snap fire gets worded, I DON'T CARE. No matter how scary it is, or is not - in the end it doesn't bother me as long as assualt is brought back to being almost on par with shooting.

~DeviLution

[Aun Tier]

@DeviLution,

I think that the reason that peoples feathers are being ruffled is because of the possibility that the new rules won't be quite so balanced as you have put. Imagine if Games Workshop decided to make Snap fire viable as a reaction to any assault, and the unit fired at full strength with all weapons and no cover saves, and then made Assault into consolidation D3 and counts as though the enemy assaulted, not you. Knowing Games Workshop, I wouldn't put it past them.
I'm a Tau player, so my feathers are far from ruffled by the thought of snap-fire, but I think that this could be closer to what people are worried about.

[Gingerwerewolf]

But as has been mentioned several times in this thread, people are terrified of it and have NO idea how it works. The "Videos" are pure conjecture, as are the ideas. We dont know how it works with everything else, so people screaming that the world is ending and rage quitting is just a joke.

Yes there is a new mechanic
Yes it may or may not help certain types of armies
Yes there may be imbalance in 6th

How does this change anything for the better or worse is anyones guess until we all get our hands on the rulebook and sit back in wonder and awe

(Wonder at the new rules, Awe and how awesome it is, or depending upon your opinion then, Wonder at the stupidity and awe at how unbalanced they are)

[DeviLution]

@DeviLution,

I think that the reason that peoples feathers are being ruffled is because of the possibility that the new rules won't be quite so balanced as you have put. Imagine if Games Workshop decided to make Snap fire viable as a reaction to any assault, and the unit fired at full strength with all weapons and no cover saves, and then made Assault into consolidation D3 and counts as though the enemy assaulted, not you. Knowing Games Workshop, I wouldn't put it past them.
I'm a Tau player, so my feathers are far from ruffled by the thought of snap-fire, but I think that this could be closer to what people are worried about.

I don't put it past them either. I DON'T expect balanced rules from GW - a time-honored viewpoint proven to me time and again over the 13 years I've been in. I guess what I was trying to say was, snap fire - even what little we know of it - doesn't bother me as long as we get consolidate into assualt. This from the viewpoint of myself, an admitted bloodthirsty *ahem*, rather than a noble gunliner such as youself who'd obviously be thrilled to have snap fire.

My mental image, though flawed: imagining 5th edition with consolidate into assualt as it was from 4th, combined with snap fire defined as a reaction to any charge by consolidation, taken at BS 1 with no template weapons (snap fire with templates - that's just stupidly broken)... all this as a sort of thought exercise, mind you. And looking it at it that way, it holds up well.

But that's not likely knowing our GW. My thought exercise is likely pointless. As you pointed out, and I agree with you 100%, those two rules aren't likely to be written well, much less written like they're rumored. Feathers ruffled NOW will be nothing compared to when 6th hits, I'm sure. Heh, perhaps I should be happy with things as they are now, eh?

~DeviLution

EDIT @Ginger - still I really don't see the bloody point of bein' terrified by a rumor. As I said above, GW writes bad rules. We all know this. Why is that suddenly terrifying NOW? And over one situational rule, no less. Sorry, GW's mismanaging itself into oblivion and people are worried over bloody SNAP FIRE? How is this something I'm supposed to be anything but amused and confused at?

[Gingerwerewolf]

@Ginger - still I really don't see the bloody point of bein' terrified by a rumor. As I said above, GW writes bad rules. We all know this. Why is that suddenly terrifying NOW? And over one situational rule, no less. Sorry, GW's mismanaging itself into oblivion and people are worried over bloody SNAP FIRE? How is this something I'm supposed to be anything but amused and confused at?

Exactly +1

And Ive played and enjoyed 27 years of wargaming and although I hate mech spam and despise wound allocation I still love and play 40k...

[DeviLution]

Aye, would be nice if 6th leveled the playing field a bit better IE non mech armies stood a chance against mech and vice versa. Probably a forlorn hope. Something's bound to be exploitable. Ah well, as long as it's moderately fun I'll tag along, more happily so if we get consolidation assualt back.

[Eldoriath]

In any case, I was thinking that the rules for the flyers does give us some hints about things that will change in 6th (but not how it will change).

* Some kind of flyer rules will be there if we look at the storm talon (yeah, we've been hinted about it for some time, but this is an offciial hint so to speak). Otherwise, why pointing out it is a skimmer when standing still when it is a skimmer to begin with? Could also imply that the rumoured FAQ has more credibility to change some vehicles into flyers?
* Moving flat out might change, otherwise the ork bombing rules are plain stupid. Also, as the rules are now aerial assault vehicles may either fire all weapons or none. So the part about the bombing counting as shooting one weapon is kinda moot atm. While that part doesn't necessarily imply change and rather could be a back-up for 7th ed I'd say it's not far-fetched to see some change here.
* Could be a small hint about treating jump/jet/skimmer units differently from land based ones, or those rules are just for the dakkajet.

Anyone else seen some hints about changes to come?

[Carlosophy]

Aye, would be nice if 6th leveled the playing field a bit better IE non mech armies stood a chance against mech and vice versa. Probably a forlorn hope. Something's bound to be exploitable. Ah well, as long as it's moderately fun I'll tag along, more happily so if we get consolidation assualt back.

If the current hull points rumours are true then we get a level playing field again. Any result other than wrecked+ will reduce the hull points by 1, meaning it would take 3 glancing hits of any result (1,1,1) to destroy a rhino.

[BramGaunt]

I have nothing on rules yet, but I can give you a releasedate: 30th of June. I am 100% certain of that.

Also, come monday, the current BRB won't be for sale any more.

[Rick Blaine]

I have nothing on rules yet, but I can give you a releasedate: 30th of June. I am 100% certain of that.

Also, come monday, the current BRB won't be for sale any more.

Sweet! I'm hoping for some more leaks or it's going to be a looong June.

[RandomThoughts]

I wonder, behind the smokescreen of snapfire and random psy, are there any substantial rule rumors yet? Percentages confirmed or refuted? Scoring? Mission types? Cover? Anything regarding Jetbikes and Hit & Run?

[Leggy]

I have nothing on rules yet, but I can give you a releasedate: 30th of June. I am 100% certain of that.

Also, come monday, the current BRB won't be for sale any more.

Is that proper release, or the preorder date?

[BramGaunt]

Release, afaik.

[Scorpion]

Also, come monday, the current BRB won't be for sale any more.

I wouldn't want to be the last guy to buy it on Sunday...

[Gondrak]

did anyone hear about the rumour paying points for terrain that beasts of war is showing in one of their youtube vids?

[DeviLution]

Release, afaik.

Excellent news, Bram, thanks.

EDIT @ Carlosophy - yeah, I'd forgotten hull points. I look forward to seeing how that ends up being written, but it is the merest glimmer of hope that mech' won't be so annoyingly dominant.

[Charistoph]

And don't forget, for every DOOM rumor out there, there is an unrumored change occurring that makes it less Secret Wars DOOM and more Super Hero Squad Modoc.

[Tzeentch2003]

Excellent news, Bram, thanks.

EDIT @ Carlosophy - yeah, I'd forgotten hull points. I look forward to seeing how that ends up being written, but it is the merest glimmer of hope that mech' won't be so annoyingly dominant.

Every edition and every codex, for as long as I have been playing (2nd edition), has nerfed the dominant army style from the previous edition. So there is more than a glimmer of hope that mech won't be as dominant - there is very well-established precedent.

[DeviLution]

Every edition and every codex, for as long as I have been playing (2nd edition), has nerfed the dominant army style from the previous edition. So there is more than a glimmer of hope that mech won't be as dominant - there is very well-established precedent.

Totally agreed. Only problem is each new edition replaces one tyrant with another. Just once I'd like to see them take the underdog army builds and buff them to rival the dominant ones, rather than slaying one king only to have a new one take it's place.

EDIT - Balance the scales, rather than swing the pendulum.