Official WarSeer Warhammer 40,000 6th Edition discussion thread

[BramGaunt]

What Theocracity said.

Example: I think it's pretty easy to assume that Space Wolves will be able to get a Blood Angels detachment. Now, how could they interact?
A: Both count as the same army in any means. I can assign my Wolf Guard to join Death Company, my Blood Angels Scriptor can buff Grey Hunters with his new Rulebook-Psychic-Powers and my Thunderwolves benefit from Sanguiniary Priests.
B: They fight alongside, but are treated as two small armies in any means. Effects of the one do not affect the other army whatsoever. You basically fight with two smaller armies against one big army.
C: Somewhat in the middle.

[Vaktathi]

And what, exactly, is preventing GW from giving the Banshee weapon AP2 instead of AP3 in the Eldar update FAQ?

Absolutely nothing, however it would be rather out of character given GW's typical Errata history. I don't actually own any banshees so I don't have much of a stake either way, just thought it was kinda silly to portray them as being too-good all-rounder units. That said, I have no idea if that change is for real or not, nor do most of my armies really care *too* much.

It would be good though to see a fairly comprehensive and detailed errata/FAQ from GW however

[Hokiecow]

Not quite an in-person close-up, but without the book in hand, it's the best I could do ;o)

Attachment 143395

That's an awesome painting!
It's has a Hemi, some Wracks, Grotesque, a raider in the distance, I'm assuming a pain engine above, but what are the female snipers looking figures in the back?

[beerbeard]

Is it me, or has this changed from a news/rumor thread to a "whining and arguing about Eldar without even really knowing what the changes are going to be" thread?

bb

[TheHarrower]

Wow, this thread has a life of it's own. Is there a round up anywhere? I can't keep up with the insanity.

[Venkh]

However much i love my Eldar, I dont expect GW to consider their 4 year old dex written for 4th ed when putting together the 6th ed rulebook. The Eldar have loads of poor units that cant fulfill their battlefield role. Just add banshees to the list and wait for the new dex to come along.

On the subject of rumors, I am really interested in the idea that sidearms will be able to be used in CC somehow. Splinter weapons granting poison attacks would be great for wyches, perhaps shuriken weapons will transfer their strength as well?

[Fable]

One thing that's still bugging me is the use of 'Primary Detachment' to describe the main army.

I mean, why would you need to create an in-game title to say "this is the part of my army which is not 'allies'", especially if you already have the title 'allies' to show which guys are not in your main force?

I can only understand it if the two different forces could be of equal points value, or if you can actually use multiple allies, and in either case need to identify which one the Warlord should be chosen from..?

Or even if your 'allies' are from the same codex as your main force, making it difficult for your opponent to see which units are allies, thus allowing you to go over your regular FOC limits...

It doesn't seem to be with regard to who can hold objectives as WD shows that allied troop choices can take objectives.

Edit:

Wait, what? It was implied that allies might be compulsory?? Where was that?!

My expectation is the "primary detachment" wording is related to the "warlord" rule, so that there could be only one Warlord for each side. If you were, let's say, playing partners with equal size forces you would have to decide before the start of the game which one is the Primary Detachment and then that army would have a Warlord bonus. But that's just guessing.

As for people freaking out about Banshees... Back in second edition Terminators were something to be feared, and only spoken about in hushed whispers, so I don't mind seeing them regain some monumental status. Also... did you guys ever consider that laser lances might be AP2 on the charge? Just a thought.

[RanaldLoec]

Yeah Terminators with a 3+ save on 2d6 even lascannons with a -6 save modifier didn't trouble them much.

Gone are the days of critical hits and fumbles of 1990's.

Back to current rumours I have read, digested and I await the book before I will come here to cry "nerf" or "overpowered".

[Gauthic]

However much i love my Eldar, I dont expect GW to consider their 4 year old dex written for 4th ed when putting together the 6th ed rulebook. The Eldar have loads of poor units that cant fulfill their battlefield role. Just add banshees to the list and wait for the new dex to come along.

On the subject of rumors, I am really interested in the idea that sidearms will be able to be used in CC somehow. Splinter weapons granting poison attacks would be great for wyches, perhaps shuriken weapons will transfer their strength as well?

6 year codex (November 2006), how the time flies

Edit: added month

[Glyn]

so from what i'm seeing here and from the images they've mashed 5th ed and 2nd ed together, made a massive mess thrown in some fantasy elements for no apparent reason at the moment anyway and put it out for us lot to manage. brilliant I dont think, oh well i've needed motivation to get into Fantasy for years I think i just got it....i'll wait until i get my paws on White Dwarf and read it and judge from there but right now things look grim

[ConcentrateMore]

My Tau would certainly get a boost if some of the shooting related rumors are true. I will wait to get too excited about moving and shooting at full range with rapid fire weapons until I see it.

[Spell_of_Destruction]

However much i love my Eldar, I dont expect GW to consider their 4 year old dex written for 4th ed when putting together the 6th ed rulebook. The Eldar have loads of poor units that cant fulfill their battlefield role. Just add banshees to the list and wait for the new dex to come along.

This. It's not even a case of 'adding' Banshees to the list as they are pretty poor already. And how often do you see Termies without a 3++ anyway?

It's just unfortunate that we have to wait a full year for the new codex. 7 years is a long time to wait for a codex which has been poor for most of 5th edition.

I'm more worried about hull points to be honest. Great for nerfing cheap Transport spam. Not so great when you are paying through the nose for AV12 transports. Quite a nerf to holo-fields too - not worth the points if the rumours are true. Maybe we'll get bonesingers in the new codex who will have the ability to restore hull points.

[Balerion]

Powerweapon wielding, high init troops typically are heavy infantry killers. What other role would they serve? Against lighter troops Striking Scorpions are much more effective. The Banshees lack any significant shooting ability, and they don't have any anti-vehicle capabilities either. There's not much else they're good for.

Hence why such a nerf, if they are actually included in the rules, would be relatively punitive for the Eldar, and in their current configuration can in no possible way be considered "good alrounders" by any stretch of the imagination, much less so if the proposed rules change turns out to be true.

Banshees have been more or less the same since 3rd edition, haven't they? And over the many years when Termies were in the doghouse (before the 3++ shield changed all that) Banshees were generally seen as anti-power armour specialists. It was only after the increased prevalence of Terminators that Banshees transitioned into an anti-Terminator role that they didn't originally occupy (that was what Starcannon spam was for, back in the day!).

[ehlijen]

A: Both count as the same army in any means. I can assign my Wolf Guard to join Death Company

I don't see anything that would suggest that wolf guard get to join any units other than the ones specifically listed in their entry (which doesn't even include all Space wolf units!).

[RandomThoughts]

i wonder if 2 opponents can have the same ally? Can both space marines, and CSM take IG allies?

Why shouldn't say? it's not as if 2 players are forbiden to play the same army against each other, or even the same unique charactermodel...

True enough. Now I can look forward to Gray Knights in most of the lists I fight. Joy.

Just don't fight them. When I see a power list in my LGS, i never ask to fight it, nor am I asked to fight against it. I stick with the rest of the casual crowd and we simply ignore the power gamers.

Yes but i play tourneys and i fear they'll ruin my fun. I see no fun in playing against SW with a squadron of leman russes/hydra or IG with SW troops or worse, GK dreads in every list. And i spent like 400€ in DE in the last year to be somewhat competitive and i don't want to trash 400€ because GW suddenly wanted to spice things up in a bad way. So i can't take any allies beside Eldars? Nice. I just can stop to play because i only play on tournaments, i don't have any friend nearby who plays 40k. Shouldn't i have some rights to be concerned?

First of all, welcome to Games Workshop, where most competitive tournament lists get invalidated every four years when a new editin comes out and often with a new codex as well. If you're lucky, the list simply stops being effective against other power lists, if you're unlucky some of your models are no longer game legal.

How do you think Eldar Iyanden lists reacted when Dark Eldar with all their poison weapons came out? What do you think will happen to all the Imp Melta-Vet spam the moment vehicles in general and especially transports get nerfed?

Secondly? Why not make some friends? I always got at least two demo armies lying around should someone ask for a demo game. Don't have anyone asking? - offer to friends, try to meet people at your LGS, whatever.

I don't understand why everyone talks about lore in regards of allies. What about game balance for gods sake? i play for the game not for the lore!!

Because for some of use fluff/lore comes before game balance?

[Spell_of_Destruction]

Banshees have been more or less the same since 3rd edition, haven't they? And over the many years when Termies were in the doghouse (before the 3++ shield changed all that) Banshees were generally seen as anti-power armour specialists. It was only after the increased prevalence of Terminators that Banshees transitioned into an anti-Terminator role that they didn't originally occupy (that was what Starcannon spam was for, back in the day!).

I think you're right in the sense that terminators haven't always been the most popular unit since the release of 3rd ed and befroe the nerf to the starcannon we certainly didn't worry too much about them.

I do sympathise with the other Eldar players when it comes to Banshees though. Maybe non Eldar players don't understand how tough it is to get the most out of them. Someone else pointed out - they are specialists who are crap at most things. I don't think it's expecting too much that they should be strong against Termies.

Banshees have indeed remained almost identical since the release of the 3rd ed codex. Since then the rules have become increasingly less friendly to their effective use. Banshees were tearing up the battlefield in the days when you could assault out of moving transports and sweeping advance 2D6". Changes since then have seemingly been balanced for MEQs armies and not fragile T3 4+ armour save units which require to stay at close to full strength to remain effective.

But like I said - this change to power weapons won't effect Banshees much. They are a sub par unit now and they will remain a sub par unit. We just have to wait and see what the new codex brings.

[Aluinn]

Yes but i play tourneys and i fear they'll ruin my fun. I see no fun in playing against SW with a squadron of leman russes/hydra or IG with SW troops or worse, GK dreads in every list. And i spent like 400€ in DE in the last year to be somewhat competitive and i don't want to trash 400€ because GW suddenly wanted to spice things up in a bad way. So i can't take any allies beside Eldars? Nice. I just can stop to play because i only play on tournaments, i don't have any friend nearby who plays 40k. Shouldn't i have some rights to be concerned?

DE with Eldrad, a Seer Council, an Avatar, or scoring Wraithguard seems pretty good--actually, anything with Eldrad seems pretty good--but I don't know, I'm not a doctor. Going from no psychic defense to some of the best, and no psychic powers to some of the best (from what we've seen of the cards, what Eldrad can do in terms of Fortune/Fortune/Doom, Fortune/Doom/Doom, or Fortune/Doom/Guide still seems, well, as good as it was before, and Doom is particularly nice when you wound everything on a 4+ with a gajillion shots). If you have to take Eldar Troops to do this, well, small Ranger/Pathfinder squads have never been bad in any way and sniper weapons are getting a buff again, and they do provide something that the DE army list doesn't really have a very efficient choice for (a small cheapish scoring squad to sit near an objective in/near your DZ and still contribute to the battle with long-ranged weapons), though Warriors can serve.

Anyway, think things out carefully; the Eldar list is, though taken as a whole not the best, far from devoid of very strong choices, and you get to pick and choose to at least some extent. Everyone gets allies and I can imagine a scenario where, in fact, everyone would love to be able to have Eldar allies because, again, Eldrad.

(This is all conjecture based on the assumption that the ally rules are indeed a "core" part of the "normal" game, not some wacky fun appendix thing, and also that they will in fact be limited on an army-by-army-to-other-army basis, which we don't even know.)

EDIT: Just occurred to me: Fortuned, tooled-up Archon with Shadowfield? Sweet jeebus he cannot die. Running with Seer Council plus Eldrad ... sick, just sick.

[sturguard]

I keep hearing people saying Chims and vets are getting nefed because of the nerf to vehicles- I cant figure that one out, if anything with hull points dont chims get better and with rapid fire weapons improving- again, dont they get better. Finally just because a vehicle has hull points, how has that made a cheap unit of meltaguns bad? Honestly, I havent seen a rule that hurts IG in any way.

[Rhana Dandra]

^^^

This is what I'm afraid of tbh.

Not only will we now see the same units being spammed from every codex (long fangs, chimera vets, etc.), but now if there aren't too many restrictions, the same list brought by everyone, with the choice units from each codex.

We might have to get used to everyone fielding forces led by Mephiston, backed up with long fangs, dakka dreads, vendettas TH/SS termies, IG vets purifiers etc. etc.

I've no problem with power gaming, but it might just become just a bit too mundane now instead of moving into the variety that I had hoped it would be. Less spamming, more balance.

[Fable]

DE with Eldrad, a Seer Council, an Avatar, or scoring Wraithguard seems pretty good--actually, anything with Eldrad seems pretty good--but I don't know, I'm not a doctor. Going from no psychic defense to some of the best, and no psychic powers to some of the best (from what we've seen of the cards, what Eldrad can do in terms of Fortune/Fortune/Doom, Fortune/Doom/Doom, or Fortune/Doom/Guide still seems, well, as good as it was before, and Doom is particularly nice when you wound everything on a 4+ with a gajillion shots). If you have to take Eldar Troops to do this, well, small Ranger/Pathfinder squads have never been bad in any way and sniper weapons are getting a buff again, and they do provide something that the DE army list doesn't really have a very efficient choice for (a small cheapish scoring squad to sit near an objective in/near your DZ and still contribute to the battle with long-ranged weapons), though Warriors can serve.

Anyway, think things out carefully; the Eldar list is, though taken as a whole not the best, far from devoid of very strong choices, and you get to pick and choose to at least some extent. Everyone gets allies and I can imagine a scenario where, in fact, everyone would love to be able to have Eldar allies because, again, Eldrad.

(This is all conjecture based on the assumption that the ally rules are indeed a "core" part of the "normal" game, not some wacky fun appendix thing, and also that they will in fact be limited on an army-by-army-to-other-army basis, which we don't even know.)

EDIT: Just occurred to me: Fortuned, tooled-up Archon with Shadowfield? Sweet jeebus he cannot die. Running with Seer Council plus Eldrad ... sick, just sick.

If GW nixes special characters from the allied detachment there's a chance people might not abuse it.

As of this moment we all know just enough information to make really ignorant decisions about what armies and units are trashed in 6th. It appears power weapons will be AP3 (which I'm actually fine with) and dealing with terminators will be something we, as generals, need to contend with. Fine. Can you tell me what changes 6th ed is going to have on my precious D-cannons? Are banshees getting a 5++ in combat? Are Phoenix Lords going to be much more terrifying just from the standard nerf to Power Weapons?

There are a lot of things in here that we don't know. I can say this though, if Eldargal's description of how the psychic powers work for Eldar are correct and I can buy two or three powers and have four or six to choose from in the game then I'm thinking... maybe they actually put a lot of thought into this rule set.

Just take a few breaths and realize that sure, in one hand they take away, but in the other they may actually give. If AP2 does aid in popping vehicles then yes, we will still have the debate of Brightlance being inferior to Lascannon, but we might have to pause and think about whether we want a Brightlance or Missile Launcher.

Maybe we'll get some wacky back door buffs to units that we haven't even thought of, like Swooping Hawks getting to use their Haywire Grenades at Initiative 10 on the charge? Just spend the next week or week in a half thinking about the possibilities.