Official WarSeer Warhammer 40,000 6th Edition discussion thread

[DJ3]

And of course, White Dwarf has NEVER been wrong about the rules, EVER. (I agree with your point, I just think that WD battle reports is a poor source for the proper example).

There's a difference between nitpicking a WD Battle Report to notice they performed some minor action incorrectly and "Both players completely forgot how to construct an army, in a battle whose entire point was to show off the new means to construct an army."

Everyone knows WD makes rules mistakes, but some common sense lines can be drawn in terms of what those mistakes may be. By your line of reasoning, it's completely outrageous to discuss anything from the WD--you'd be equally justified in saying the Allies rules or Psyker Disciplines might not exist, because it's in WD, and the whole thing is one big typo.

[Spiney Norman]

THERE WILL BE FAQ UPDATES FOR THE CODICES TO BRING THEM UP TO DATE

Many of these assumptions about things getting nerfed or buffed are based on current codex entries. Who is to say that Agonizers and Eldar Banshee weapons will not be AP2? Allies seem to be limited to 25-30% and limited FOC slots, not an entire second FOC to play with. We do not have enough context to be whining about nerfs and buffs yet (well, not that that ever stopped people before)

Urgghh, that is the worst way to make an alliances system, it allows you to cherry-pick the best units from other forces to add to your own without requiring the compulsory minimum of a second full FOC to balance things out. Two allied armies is one thing, but allowing players to build monstrous combo-armies out of near-enough whatever they want is going to make game balance virtually impossible to achieve.

On the other hand, the opportunity to ram some purifiers into my crappy battle sister codex might at least help them to be competitive, and GK termies will make an interesting alternative troops choice to multiple huge squads of the humble battle sister.

[Scribe of Khorne]

There have also been rumours that say games above 2000pts can take additional/expanded FOCs.

And lo' an explanation and logical reasoning could once again prevail...

[DJ3]

Urgghh, that is the worst way to make an alliances system, it allows you to cherry-pick the best units from other forces to add to your own without requiring the compulsory minimum of a second full FOC to balance things out. Two allied armies is one thing, but allowing players to build monstrous combo-armies out of near-enough whatever they want is going to make game balance virtually impossible to achieve.

On the other hand, the opportunity to ram some purifiers into my crappy battle sister codex might at least help them to be competitive.

The most persistent rumors (thought they might be closer to wishlisting; it's impossible to tell where anything is coming from at this point) is that you're required to take 1 HQ/1 Troops from your allies, and limited to 0-1 of all other slots. The WD armies conform to this, but obviously that could just be a coincidence.

In most cases...it's hardly making things any worse, particularly for Imperial armies. Imagine the horror of being told you "have to" take a Rune Priest and some Grey Hunters before you're allowed access to Long Fangs. Oh, how will they ever bare?

My primary hope for any potential Allies rules at this point is that, at minimum, they won't allow you to ally in any Special Characters. Put in some garbage text about how it's too demeaning for such a powerful individual to follow a commander from another army or something and call it a day.

[prowla]

There have also been rumours that say games above 2000pts can take additional/expanded FOCs.

So far what the leaked WD page shows for 2500 pt games, and what I guess might be the universal rules: you can have one unit of each FOC type in your allies list, and you can have max. 25% of total points in allies.

[Rapator]

Where did you get all that from? I think the WD states otherwise. The armies in there have extra HQs and one has an extra Heavy Support or somthing like that from their allies. Yet we haven't seen anythig liek what you said come through this forum. (Well not that I can remember.) So a source would be nice.

It is beacuse they played game above 2000 pts. Above 2000 pts you get additional slots opened.

EDIT: Also I think that stuff about PW being AP3 is incorrect. I think that power axes being AP2 was inferred from battle report between CSM+CD and IG+GK (there was chaos lord having power axe). However power axes are just like normal power weapons in CSM dex, they differ just in appearance.

[Alarum]

It works out as 30% not 25% as others have already pointed out.

[jtrowell]

Except aren't the ally rules in WFB specifically for multi-player team games? And I don't know where your getting the bind undead and demon stuff, I don't recall that in the fantasy rulebook.

It's not in the rule book, it's in the Storm of Magic expansion

[Bartali]

Nothing in here about the leaked German rulebook ? It's out there apparently

Edit - For those that keep PM'ing me - No, I don't know how to get a copy of it

[BramGaunt]

Nothing in here about the leaked German rulebook ? It's out there apparently

that's not to be discussed in WarSeer forums, as it is a violation of some many regulations.

but... tnhaks for the hnit, aynawy... *plunges into the depths of the web*

[Ereshkigal]

I was thinking about allies:
IG with an inquisitor, troop termies from GK and a psyfleman. I highly doubt someone will beat that. They almost don't have any weak spots.

[Latro_]

wow why are so.many of you up in arms about this allies thing? Its quite obviously an optional addition to the game it wont become part of normal play.

How many of you use the detailed building rules in the back of the current rule book? yea... exactly.

[Morticon]

Two notes on weapon AP.

Although most xeons are puckering up about the AP5 chainsword rumours, I would invite them to take a look at which models in the various marine codices actually have chainswords.

Chaos, SW, BT etc - all of them are listed as having CCWs - not Chainswords.

Also, as to the AP3 for powerswords - you guys may find yourself a little relieved/upset in that regard depending how the rumour mill turns out. I've been told that the rumour of AP3 power swords came from a translation of the fluff (by someone involved in translation) which was interpreted to mean that. You may find to your surprise that PWs are in fact AP2. But who knows. Could still go either way.
Will have to wait and see.

[yarrickson]

Indeed, look at the space marine movie where the squad share 1 chainsword between them.

[Cheeslord]

Phewwww I thought for a sec everyone would have to go and buy some extra kits.
Oh wait, what am I saying...

I think this is the key point. People usually only collect a couple of armies, and aren't going to buy new models until a new "wave" turns up for one of their armies, completely ignoring releases of models for other armies, as the "buy in" to get a reasonable force for any army is going to be in the hundreds of pounds typically.

Allies rules neatly bypass this. When a new Tau, or space marine, or dark eldar wave comes out, I could be tempted to buy some of those models even though I don't collect those armies simply because I can include them as allies to one of my existing armies.

End result: More sales for GW

Mark

[PostinDirty]

Allies rules neatly bypass this. When a new Tau, or space marine, or dark eldar wave comes out, I could be tempted to buy some of those models even though I don't collect those armies simply because I can include them as allies to one of my existing armies.

End result: More sales for GW

and I was always curious as to why they even stopped integrating allies into the game in the first place, it just made good business and gaming sense

[Venkh]

The allies rules allows 3 muchkins with small starter forces to join up and play against a bigger player in a 'proper' game

Its a good thing overall but i expect that most tournament organisers will ban allied contingents from the get go. Its too open to abuse to be allowed in any but the most competetive environments.

That said, it could be fun in a no holds barred day of excitement! I cant wait to have an Eldar force that can exploit DE webway portals. Footdar lives!

[VampireCountJP]

More stuff from the white dwarf dreadnoughts have the Hammer of Wrath rule when they charge.
Grenades can be thrown two seperate instances they mention this frag and krak. One example was a space marine captain throwing a krak grenade to finish off an Ork truck Sweet!!!! There is look out special rule one example says that a nob leading orks only got a 4+ due to not being an independent character. I suppose that ind characters will get a 2+ rule let's you transfer wounds to another model helpfully for keeping upgrade sergeants nobs etc alive.
Flyers hit each other on normal ballistic skill
Flyers must be in hover mode then count as fast skimmer to unload troops then hit on normal ballistic skill.
Fliers get a 5+ evade when shot at by other flyers example given has Ork fighter pull out of battle for a turn then automatically comes back next turn no reserves roll.
Troops in a transport that is flying and is shot out of sky all take a strength 10 hit no saves allowed wow but makes sense really.
Mentions a land raider being a beast can fire one weapon at combat speed then another due to machine spirit then says and can snap fire the assault cannon and pintle multi Melta unsure if this as bs1 like over watch
When charging multiple units you lose your bonus attack for charging and both units can over watch fire at you.
Overwatch shooting a flamer gives you d3 automatic hits cool.
An example says the entire daemon army causes fear
I know it has been mentioned before but terminators gave example of only having their armor beaten by power fists , axes ... At the risk of getting shouted out by the eldar banshees are no good anymore crowd I like the idea power weapons now ap3 mind you it does not say that but this implies something of the sort. Termies die to weight of fire and with rapid firing on the move at max range looks like there will be no shortage of that. Power weapons will still kill power armor that is heavy infantry. Ducks projectiles
Gives example of dreadnought being stunned so can only snap fire needing 6's to hit
Closest models die first
Buy terrain fortifications fortress of redemption in the 220's bastion in the 120's can upgrade with guns o comms array

Love the proposed changes will breath new life in my opinion to the game so many cool ideas going to be a hard week and a bit wait now. Bring on 6th I am pumped.

[Bartali]

Anyone been playing around with the possibilities of allies ? Below seems consistant with what we know so far :-

1500pts BA/IG

BA Librarian
IG CCS w/ 4x Melta, Chimera w/ Ml/Hf
5x BA ASM w/ Land Raider
5x BA ASM w/ Land Raider
IG Vets w/ 3x Melta, Chimera w/ Ml/Hf
3x IG Leman Russ

By no means an optimal list, but gives you an idea. I have a feeling IG allies are going to be heavily abused by SM, cheap Hyda squadrons filling out HS spring to mind.

[Enigma6]

I'm mostly hoping that the allies thing (as well as including the min of 1 HQ & Troop for some balance), is more of a clarification of HOW to do allies than a rule stating that you CAN (always) do allies, i.e. part of the normal FOC options.

By that i mean that, if we want to have a friendly game with an allied force or a team game using allied armies there are currently no concrete rules in the rulebook about how to do this. Players have to agree first about how certain rules and abilities can interact. e.g. blood chalice states that all friendly units within 6" get FNP and FC. Does that mean my allied purifiers get the buff, as they are friendly models? There has also been a lot of talk about allied farseers giving THSS termies fortune. I personally think that, at least fluff wise, these examples shouldn't work and there are others which would be pretty broken if they are allowed.

Official rules clarifying how to do this would be great it opens up some great gaming potential, but it is much more beneficial to the home/club gaming scene than competitive play. Hopefully there will be some sensible restrictions as I was always fed up of every IG army having an inquisitor with mystics in the old demonhunter days.

As others have said, this will make starting a new army much easier if you can field your fledgling new force BEFORE spending hundreds of currency to get it to 1500pts. I can see people expanding their armies at a more leisurely pace rather than bulk spends and then periods of no-spends while saving for the next good list to come along.