Official WarSeer Warhammer 40,000 6th Edition discussion thread

[Dog of destiny]

Well If you can't take SC in allies, I can't think of a reason to run CD with CSM then. If someone out there can think of a reason to run non SC CD allies please tell me. I played CD one time since the book came out, so aside from how Epid and/or Kairos would make an obscene combo with CSM I see nothing they have to offer that could stand up to the utter brokenness out there.

You are probably right, but you can still do a fluffy allied army. Other armies aren’t so lucky. In terms of not allowing SC as allies, it does make a few quite cool options not possible. Such as taking Inquisitor Coteaz as an allied HQ in order to have Inquisition henchmen as Troops in your allied slot, rather than HAVING to take some GK terminators. They should have made Inquisitor Henchmen Squads troop choices in the GK codex, or kept in the option of a Storm Trooper squad as a troop choice. Makes no difference though really, I'll just ask to house rule that. Sure my buddies won't mind me bringing a squad of Inq. Storm Troopers instead of some GK Terminators.
Oh, and if Tau and Guard can’t be trusted allies but Tau and xeno hating Space Marines can – well I be asking to house rule that as well.

[DigitalDogParty]

Yikes, I don't even know what to think about this one. The guy on Reddit with the rulebook is now reporting that Penetrating Hits do NOT remove Hull Points.

See here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/co...noxv?context=3

That would...be incredibly backwards, if true. The entire reason Hull Points are a good idea is it gets away from the horribleness of Shaking/Stunning a vehicle a dozen times. You'd now be better off rolling a glancing hit in a large number of circumstances (i.e., any weapon that isn't AP1-2), in terms of eventually killing the vehicle.

Say you get three damage results from a Missile on a Rhino. If they were all Glances, the Rhino would be dead. If they're all Pens, you have to roll on the damage table and hope for a six.

Just sounds wrong, hopefully something's being overlooked there.

Well, don't AP 1 weapons add +2 to the roll with AP 2 adding +1? Perhaps glancing just negates those, and causes a loss in Hull Points instead? I mean, AP 1 weapons giving a +2 bonus? Roll a 3 and it's wrecked, right...?

[DJ3]

Yea I noticed that too.

PE being shooting only and Hatred being the old PE for CC? That is a new one for me too. It does seem a bit shady but he hasn't gone off the rails or anything yet.

I feel like if either of them are fake, it's far more likely to be the BoLS guy. He's either copying someone else's rumors, or translating from a different language. He's made some very basic mistakes (like "skyhammer," when we know it's definitely called Skyfire) and "Power Staves" when it's supposed to be Mauls/Hammers. Stuff like that leads me to think he's probably got a different language book.

And it's important to remember the guy on Reddit actually posted a picture of his book with a timestamp note and his name, so we're rather certain he has one.

But most important of all is to remember that it's not as if every player everywhere knew the rules of 5th Edition even after five years; there's going to be mistakes and facts overlooked because it's just one guy looking at a rulebook he's had for two days.

[DJ3]

The force weapon thing also has me curious, which version of Instant Death would it cause? The 2 wound or 3 wound one?

I feel as if Pancake Edition will live on forever.

Eternal Warrior/Instant Death "levels" do not actually exist.

Well, don't AP 1 weapons add +2 to the roll with AP 2 adding +1? Perhaps glancing just negates those, and causes a loss in Hull Points instead? I mean, AP 1 weapons giving a +2 bonus? Roll a 3 and it's wrecked, right...?

You've missed that there's a whole new damage table.

Everything that isn't AP1-2 is nerfed, because the new damage table is 1-2 Shaken, 3 Stunned, 4 Weapon Destroyed, 5 Immobilize and 6 Explodes.

The short version is: AP1 is the exact same as it used to be, and AP2 is the exact same as everything that wasn't AP1. AP3+ is worse than it used to be.

We believe this to be compensated for by the Hull Point mechanic, but things are getting...weird.

[DigitalDogParty]

Huh.

I must have gotten some of my rumors wrong if that's the case. If penetrating hits don't take away Hull Points, then that's a little...well, odd. Best to get to the bottom of this, DJ3! Uh-Reddit we go!

[Hashulaman]

I am surprised no one has started making tacticas based on the rumors so far, It happened back when 8th was about to come out. Threads were popping up on how to use such and such army days before 8th came out, even on here.

[Bartali]

Yea the allies thing is a fluff/modeller focuessed gamers dream. I can think of about 10 cool ideas for IG as allies alone.

From a painting perspective, I'm really looking forward to 6th and Allies. Lot's of oppotunity to take a variety of models in a list without being forced to take sucky units from your own codex.

Did I remember reading that an Explodes result takes three hull points ? Or did I imagine it ?

[Wrath]

Huh.

I must have gotten some of my rumors wrong if that's the case. If penetrating hits don't take away Hull Points, then that's a little...well, odd. Best to get to the bottom of this, DJ3! Uh-Reddit we go!

The Reddit guy is the one who said it, and it appears that he is not there atm.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/co...noxv?context=3

[Asher]

Just sounds wrong, hopefully something's being overlooked there.

The rule might sound stupid at first; but it's a fair trade-off I think. With penetrating you have a 1/6, 1/3 or even 1/2 chance of completely destroying that vehicle. Even lesser results reduce the vehicles effectivity in some ways while glancing doesn't do anything as long as there are hull points left. Preventing that rhino to move or preventing that leman russ to fire can be decisive at times, even if they survive.

That said, I do think that penetrating should remove hull points too; on the other hand, it seems to me that vehilces might have too few hull points in general.

[ZeroNoRyouki]

I feel like if either of them are fake, it's far more likely to be the BoLS guy. He's either copying someone else's rumors, or translating from a different language. He's made some very basic mistakes (like "skyhammer," when we know it's definitely called Skyfire) and "Power Staves" when it's supposed to be Mauls/Hammers. Stuff like that leads me to think he's probably got a different language book.

When Stelek of YTTH put out words of a leaked german rulebook he also added that "BoLS has it".

I'm not saying that that's true but it kinda go along pretty well with your hypothesis

Edit: About hull points, the reddit guy explained that only glaces remove hull points in his first q&a "session" the other day so he is confirming what he has already said

Z

[Hashulaman]

Any word on slow and purposeful/relentless will affect rapid fire? Thousand suns with their AP3 bolters are starting to look good.

[Wrath]

Preventing that rhino to move or preventing that leman russ to fire.

Stunned vehicles can still snapfire.

Any word on slow and purposeful/relentless will affect rapid fire? Thousand suns with their AP3 bolters are starting to look good.

Same as they do now.

[Hashulaman]

The new rapid fire rules allow you to move and shoot the full 24 inches anyways right? If so I do not see how SnP has any merit now

[Thanatos_elNyx]

The new rapid fire rules allow you to move and shoot the full 24 inches anyways right? If so I do not see how SnP has any merit now

New Rumoured rule is :
Move: 1 Shot at Max Range; 2 Shots at half range.
Stationary: 2 shots at Max Range.

Thousand Sons now essentially have AP3 Storm Bolters.

[RedemptionNL]

The new rapid fire rules allow you to move and shoot the full 24 inches anyways right? If so I do not see how SnP has any merit now

Can still assault after firing rapid fire weapons I assume.

[keroko]

The rule might sound stupid at first; but it's a fair trade-off I think. With penetrating you have a 1/6, 1/3 or even 1/2 chance of completely destroying that vehicle. Even lesser results reduce the vehicles effectivity in some ways while glancing doesn't do anything as long as there are hull points left. Preventing that rhino to move or preventing that leman russ to fire can be decisive at times, even if they survive.

That said, I do think that penetrating should remove hull points too; on the other hand, it seems to me that vehilces might have too few hull points in general.

I wouldn't exactly call it a fair trade-off. At least, not when targeting low-armored transports. I mean, with an AP1 weapon... let's take a hammerhead as an example. One shot is all I get. Now, first that shot needs to hit. Then it needs to penetrate. The later won't be an issue with S10, but hitting is the key here. Then I still need to roll on the chart to see if I can blow the thing up.

If I open up with 20 rapid-firing fire warriors though... well, I'd have to get really bad luck not to get a couple of sixes when rolling 40 dice.

Don't get me wrong, I love how this change encourages the use of fire warriors, as enough fire warriors now have the potential to stop a good deal of the enemy's transports dead in the first or second round of shooting, but I wouldn't exactly call it a fair tradeoff to my heavy weapon guys... who just got comparatively worse at shooting down light vehicles, despite having weapons that make land raiders look twice.

The new rapid fire rules allow you to move and shoot the full 24 inches anyways right? If so I do not see how SnP has any merit now

Not entirely familiar with web abbreviations yet, but SnP is slow and purposeful right? In which case my broadsides are still quite happy with that rule, as it still allows them to fire with full BS while on the move rather than being forced to choose between standing or snap-fire.

[DJ3]

When Stelek of YTTH put out words of a leaked german rulebook he also added that "BoLS has it".

Stelek's German leak was a week+ ago, and almost certainly a result of him getting trolled.

When people asked him where to get it, he snarkily replied that they should "Lrn2Internet."

He later had to admit that he never even had it himself, and only saw one image of one page of German text, which was almost certainly fake. From what we gathered from the local German-speakers, none of the German fansites had any references to leaks at all, and were all just copy/pasting/translating information from the English sites.

[Wrath]

New Rumoured rule is :
Move: 1 Shot at Max Range; 2 Shots at half range.
Stationary: 2 shots at Max Range.

Thousand Sons now essentially have AP3 Storm Bolters.

Apparently not.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/co...ok_ama/c5502kw

[Latro_]

Think with the guys answering questions online is that they are getting jumped on by lots of people asking questions, you cannot expect them to answer 100% right as they are having to read the rules quickly to answer and of course they simply might make human errors understanding the wording.

There will be 's$$$ loads' of textual subtleties with big game consequences once the more thorough reviewers get their hands on it.

We'v only got a few days to go now, with the community grown online as it has since the last edition i'm thinking we might need a lot of temporary stickies in the tactics/rules forums come Saturday to deal with the posting fallout?

[jtrowell]

Yikes, I don't even know what to think about this one. The guy on Reddit with the rulebook is now reporting that Penetrating Hits do NOT remove Hull Points.

See here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/co...noxv?context=3

That would...be incredibly backwards, if true. The entire reason Hull Points are a good idea is it gets away from the horribleness of Shaking/Stunning a vehicle a dozen times. You'd now be better off rolling a glancing hit in a large number of circumstances (i.e., any weapon that isn't AP1-2), in terms of eventually killing the vehicle.

Say you get three damage results from a Missile on a Rhino. If they were all Glances, the Rhino would be dead. If they're all Pens, you have to roll on the damage table and hope for a six.

Just sounds wrong, hopefully something's being overlooked there.

It might just be that the rules about Hull points are not very clear.

If for exemple there is only one specific small paragraph where they explain that hull points are removed by each glance or better, but then all others mentions remind you that glances remove hull points but say nothing on penetrating hits, it might be easy to miss.

Sort of how the rules limiting magic items in Fantasy can be easy to miss as they are only specified once in a small paragraph at the start of the magic section, just after a bloc of introduction text, you know, the king you skip without reading ... ?

Of course I might be wrong, but having glances be better at killing a vehicule that most penetrating hits would seems rather inappropriate.