Official WarSeer Warhammer 40,000 6th Edition discussion thread

[MajorWesJanson]

If it is like fantasy, the number of powers will likely be based on your psychic mastery level, with one roll on the chart for each level, and any duplicate rolls you get to choose. A Psychic level 3 has pretty good odds of getting the spell they want.

Has this stuff from Faeit 212 shown up yet?

via General Chips
Courtesy of a friend from Games Workshop who has spent time with the Warhammer 40k 6th Edition rulebook. We (manager of my LGS) sent him a list of questions and these were his answers. Alot of IDK's, but some good stuff in there too.

Did the Force Org chart change?
No, the force org has not changed. It is still 1 HQ and 2 Troops. 3 Fast Attack, 3 Elites, 3 Heavy Support. Although, allies allows you in certain situati...ons to to add an HQ from another army and 1 Troop. You also, once you have satisfied the minimums can take 1 Fast, 1 Elite and 1 Heavy for you allies also. After your list is 2,000 pts, it appears you can double the Force Org chart. So up to four HQ with allies.

Is there pre-measuring for actions? (which ones?)
Pre-measure anytime and anywhere.

Cover Save for: Buildings, Ruins, Area Terrain (trees and whatnot)?
Cover saves seem less forgiving. I would expect less, I know being in woods or trees is now 5+. Also, if you have (Example) 4 guys that are not in terrain. I, being the shooting player, can target just those guys that are not in cover. I have no opportunity to kill the guys in cover although. Interesting.

What is the assault / charge distance?
2D6

Do vehicles have hull points?
Yes

How are psychic powers determined?
Leadership tests, everyone can attempt to nullify a psychic power.

Is 'overwatch' (like Necromunda) in the rules - how does it work?
Snap Shot is the rule. Any unit being charged can make a snap shot at BS 1. They use the full profile of the weapon. You can also use snapshot offensively, that meaning my tactical squad even if I move, I can shoot my Lascannon at BS 1. No template weapons, tanks benefit from this rule.

Is there a defensive fire mechanic (snapfire) for units being assaulted in the rules - how does it work?
See above.

Will you declare and move types (like assault and/or run) in the move phase ala fantasy?
No

how will fleet usr work, especially if run is removed?
Run is not removed. Fleet means you can re-roll you run or re-roll one of the D6 to charge.

Are flyers hit on 6's with shooting weapons and if true are there ways to mitigate that?
Flyers are hit on 6's if they perform a Zoom maneuver.

Details on how allies will work? Will it be on a codex by codex basis (eg CSM codex is rumored to allow IG and Chaos Demons via allies), with very specific unit allowances, more generic FOC based like the old demonhunter and witchhunter rules or fairly open ended anything goes.


There are three categories of allies. Lots of potential, I am not sure of the chart off the top of my head. CSM do get traitor guard, I also believe Demons. Tau have SM and Eldar. Lots of other arrangements. Tyranids get no one....but lots of Monstrous creature special rules added for their pleasure. Stomp, Impact Hits etc.

Psychic defense and abilities for armies without psychers? Rumor that all units get a 6+ save against psychic powers. Another rumor that their might be ways for Tau etc to get psychers.
I believe everyone will have access to some sort of psyker. 6+ is true for everyone.

Whats the effect on embarked units when transport is damaged, wrecked, penned etc. Can they more easily go about their business like 5ed, or entagled like 4ed, or something in between.
Similar, not sure. Much harder to blow up vehicles. Vehicle Damage chart has change as well as Deep Strike Mishap has changed.

Affect of being open topped (good and bad)
Not sure, I believe it is the similar

How will reserves work in the standard missions? Still always an option? Updates to determining when units arrive? Outflanking updated or same?
Normally it seems

Can you assault after deepstrike?
No

Changes to how units fire out of a vehicle (like say if it moves can only one model fire, is their range reduced, do they gain relentless)
None that I noticed

Assault weapons work different now? Can you still shoot and assault or ill they get some sort of ability to fire or affect on the charge?
I believe this is the same.

I like most of this news.

Snapfire seems pretty simple mechanically. Has a bigger benefit for larger units and units with low BS more than small elite units. Ability to move and fire Heavy weapons even at BS 1 will help make infantry portable heavy weapons more viable. I expect the rise of more tactical assaults, using an expendable unit to charge and tie up a squad, then charge in the killer unit. I also wonder if things like pinning will prevent snapfire, making pinning a far more useful ability.

Vehicle damage chart changing is good as well, with less odds of explosions (way to common where I play).

Stomp and Impact hits are straight from fantasy, and do help make MCs more distinct from vehicles, and at least balance the 6+ to wound change.

Between the vehicle and MC changes, it looks like both types of units will be getting mobility and damage potential added in exchange for being easier to hurt.

I was hoping for a bit more granular FOC scaling, but doubling it after you hit 2000 points is a good start at least.

Allies being limited to one of each slot also helps cut back on some of the more abusive allies builds I have seen mentioned.

[Shas0cho]

One unit to each FOC slot makes a lot of sense balance wise. Prevents combination spamming of the best units from each army which was one of my major fears with allies.

Do we know if allies is limited to one ally per side, or can you take allies from multiple codicies?

Really excited for buying terrain, I have tried my hand at some army specific terrain and have plenty of materials. Have a dastardly plan involving the extra guns and the grot gunners from the Bommers.

[Aluinn]

This makes it awful clear that "generate" is a reference to rolling on the random numbered table represented by the 1-6 numbers on the Psychic Power Cards.

There also seems to be a "generic" power (which has been suggested before as why the deck has 35 cards rather than 30 cards) for each, which you can choose to use instead of what you rolled in the event of a bad roll. I believe this is how Fantasy works? Anyhow, the "generic" power is called the Primaris Power and is referenced in the Space Marine example rather clearly:

"Objuration Mechanicum" is rather clearly a power that would affect vehicles, and they're telling you you have the option to dump it for the "Primaris Power" in the event you roll it against Tyranids, where it would be useless.

This pretty much crushes any speculation of being able to cherry-pick which powers you want, but given you can mix and match, it shouldn't be uncommon for Psykers to ditch relatively-unused powers from their Codex for a roll on the table.

Good analysis; this kind of thing is often missing from our threads here: You can tell an awful lot with certainty by deduction from information that at first seems unclear.

Anyway, it's good to know that there is a "primaris power" (this is called the "signature spell" in Fantasy, but it appears to be exactly the same thing--as an aside, the pseudo-latinized name is lame and "primary power" would have served just fine, but, you know, Mat Ward), because that severely cuts down on the randomness, and it may be that these powers are things you would want to swap for almost all the time anyway to the point where, with a Mastery Level 1 psyker, you really do know exactly what you're going to have in practice. (To make another analogy to Fantasy, Fireball from Lore of Fire and Wyssan's Wildform from Lore of Beasts are pretty much always taken by any wizard using those Lores.) In cases such as that, the random roll is just an off chance to get something that might be better (e.g. Flaming Sword or Fulminating Flame Cage in Fantasy's Lore of Fire)--a bonus really, not a drawback. This is a very big deal for the system especially because Fantasy is full of Level 4 wizards (who get, as you might guess, 4 rolls on the table, with doubles allowing them a choice of any spell, which is in truth not very random at all and almost always gets you what you want/need), whereas most 40K psykers are getting either one or 2 rolls. The ability to know going into the decision that you can get a certain power for sure is of huge importance, and I suspect that the usefulness of each Discipline's primaris power will probably determine how highly regarded the whole thing is.

So here's hoping that the Primaris Powers are generally pretty useful things to have, and not notably weaker than the other powers in the Disciplines barring perhaps the '6'.

Some questions for anyone with additional information:

1. Is there any limitation on including buildings such as the bastion etc. in your army? Are certain variants only available to certain armies or are they "generic" (e.g. is there a 'counts-as' Tyranid bastion that would be an organic spire or something)? Can anyone tell us anything more about these, e.g. do they work exactly like immobile vehicles or are they damaged in a different way?

2. Are there any rules for super-heavies such as the Baneblade variants and Stompa variants to be included in "normal" (non-Apocalypse) games?

3. To clarify, how exactly do Rapid Fire weapons work? Can they fire twice at full range if stationary, or only once just as on the move? Is firing them at full range on the move considered Snap Fire and therefore done at BS1, or is it a normal way to fire them? It would be odd if they could be fired once at max range using normal BS whether the unit moved or not, but it could be so, and no one has been super clear about this in spite of it being brought up pretty often.

[Spell_of_Destruction]

Really excited for buying terrain, I have tried my hand at some army specific terrain and have plenty of materials.

I wonder if we'll see new race specific terrains pop up in new codeces? I think Stickmonkey posted a rumour that Eldar might receive some sort of deployable fortification? I would also like to see us get fixed WWPs.

[Alarum]

These rumours and leaks make for a very exciting release next week. I for one cant wait for the Rules and the fixes for the armies. I think some non-Imperial terain would be great for those of us that dont have enough time to finish armies let alone make race specific buildings.

Any one know what time the Website usualy ticks over in Australia so we can get our pre orders in?

[ForgottenLore]

Has this stuff from Faeit 212 shown up yet?



Do vehicles have hull points?

Kinda wish they had asked "how do hull points work", since no one seems able to answer that at the moment and we have known for a couple days that hull points were in, but oh well.

[Faeslayer]

I wonder if we'll see new race specific terrains pop up in new codeces? I think Stickmonkey posted a rumour that Eldar might receive some sort of deployable fortification? I would also like to see us get fixed WWPs.

There were rumors concerning exactly that for the Tau codex... rumors which make a little more sense now.

[Zeratil]

Either the Hour of the Witch article or the battle report is slightly wrong (I suspect the battle report). The GK Librarian has the mastery level 3 upgrade in the BR, but has only chosen 2 powers, the HotW article posted states that he should have generated 3 powers.

[DJ3]

Either the Hour of the Witch article or the battle report is slightly wrong (I suspect the battle report). The GK Librarian has the mastery level 3 upgrade in the BR, but has only chosen 2 powers, the HotW article posted states that he should have generated 3 powers.

Odds are it's the usual battle report mistake. Especially since he's Mastery 3 but has 4 Psychic Powers, he likely rolled one he never used and they forgot to note he even had it.

I don't think we'll see many Grey Knight Librarians giving up their powers to roll on a random table anytime soon, though. Their specific example is particularly a mess in terms of writing a tournament list--if they want to trade in for a Discipline, they are not allowed to buy any extra powers. But by default, GK Librarians don't even get any Psychic Powers aside from Hammerhand--they have to purchase them. Every other army, from a tournament standpoint, could decide whether or not to trade in on the fly prior to each game, whereas GK will have to make that decision at a list composition stage.

If you want Discipline Powers, you'd have to remain empty aside from Hammerhand. If you buy GK powers, you're forbidden from trading in. Given how good their powers are, I don't think anyone will be taking their chances with a random table.

[MajorWesJanson]

I wonder if we'll see new race specific terrains pop up in new codeces? I think Stickmonkey posted a rumour that Eldar might receive some sort of deployable fortification? I would also like to see us get fixed WWPs.

This would be a good time to do some of that. The Imperial bastion works fine for the Imperium and Chaos, but some xenos versions would likely do well.

Given that fortifications are being added to the FOC, will it be limited to the BRB fortifications entries, or will we see new ones (race specific) added in as new codices are added?

[DJ3]

I think the rumor he's referencing was a Tau one actually; that they'd get some sort of immobile gun implacement. Someone claimed to have seen artwork or a model in progress or something.

It would definitely make a lot more sense, though it would seem odd to suddenly have "Fortifications" springing up in the Codexes. Kinda strikes me as more of a WD thing, wouldn't you think?

Release some new terrain kit, provide same-month WD ruleset to include it in the Fortification slot.

[ZeroNoRyouki]

The bits from the (English) WD explaining how all the Psychic Powers work has been posted: http://www.freshcoast40k.com/2012/06...exclusive.html

Contrary to what's been accepted thusfar, presumably due to the vague nature of the word "generate" or possibly translation issues, powers from the new disciplines appear to be random, not chosen.

The Grey Knight (bottom right of the third image) example includes the following wording:


This makes it awful clear that "generate" is a reference to rolling on the random numbered table represented by the 1-6 numbers on the Psychic Power cards

It is even more clear in the text above Ward' statement: an inquisitor with mastery level 1 can exchange is single power with a single roll on one of the disciplines allowed for GK

[DJ3]

It is even more clear in the text above Ward' statement: an inquisitor with mastery level 1 can exchange is single power with a single roll on one of the disciplines allowed for GK

Well, you'd think so, but prior to us getting the English version people had actually been reporting that Inquisitors were the only ones that had to roll, and everyone else got to pick their powers.

[Lance-a-lot]

I think the rumor he's referencing was a Tau one actually; that they'd get some sort of immobile gun implacement. Someone claimed to have seen artwork or a model in progress or something.

The Tau are a weird choice to start with the fortification thingy. The only race that has no fixed defenses* and opts for mobile defense, gets its bunkers first!

* Forgeworld tends to disagree with the doctrine's fluff, though

[Sami]

Oh god I wonder if Wyches can throw Haywire Grenades...

[DJ3]

The Tau are a weird choice to start with the fortification thingy. The only race that has no fixed defenses* and opts for mobile defense, gets its bunkers first!

* Forgeworld tends to disagree with the doctrine's fluff, though

It's been forever since that rumor came out, but I think the thing actually Deep Striked into play, so it might fit with that just fine. Maybe it's still in one of the Tau threads somewhere.

[Hawkkf]

Random thought... If hull points are in, then couldnt super heavies just be tanks with many more hull points and weapon systems? I mean if GW is adding in fortifications to help with thier terrain sales, doesn't it stand to reason that super heavies are also supported in some format? Although, on second thought, they only have 3 super heavy kits I can think of and may still partly view Forgworld as a sort of competition for our money.

Is there any word on Forgeworld or Apocalypse FAQs to correspond with 6th?

[Kijamon]

If grenades are thrown again, how does that affect Defensive Grenades, are they part of the Snap Fire mechanic, then?

An even better question, how does that affect "Wargear" like the Slaanesh Daemon Aura which isnt' really a grenade?

I guess we must stay tuned to our various GW channels next week to find out!

on the side: Any news or rumors on when the new Erratas will be released? This weekend, during next week, or next weekend?

Potentially that'd mean throwing frag grenades will stop people using that bs1 snap fire shot at you?

[Bartali]

Chimeras will still be an excellent value because they give the fragile vets mobility, survivability and increased firepower at a bargain price. If there are fewer vehicles to shoot at it just means that there will be a mixture of plasma and melta vets on the table. I honestly dont expect to run fewer chimera vets than I do now unless flyers become much better with the new rules.

I prefer devil dogs and chimeras over valk/vendettas. If the new rules favor the flyers then I will change my lists but so far I dont see anything in the rumours that suggests I will need to change much except switch some melta vets to plasma.

Agree with this. On what is currently known, IG players will have to consider Plasma over Melta and include Hydras (if not already doing so) to gear up for 6th.

[DJ3]

Potentially that'd mean throwing frag grenades will stop people using that bs1 snap fire shot at you?

I'm personally holding out hope that you have to throw the Frag Grenades to negate Assault Through Cover penalties, if some equivalent exists to that situation from 5th Edition.

Well, actually, I'm holding out that hope solely because it would draw some connection between "the grenade you use in the Shooting phase = the grenade you benefit from in the Assault phase," thereby potentially doing away with all the GK quad-grenade nonsense. But that's likely hoping for a bit much.