Codex: Chaos Legions rumours

[Ozendorph]

I think the biggest problem with using marked generic daemons is that it is easy to confuse them with daemons from the daemon codex. What allows someone to know the difference between a daemon with the mark of khorne and bloodletter? Concivably both could be in the same battle (apoc). You don't think this is a bad idea?

The basic troop daemon have very few special rules. It would be easy to fit them all on one page. Just remove access to banners, instruments, extra powers, and upgrade characters for the daemons in the csm book. Otherwise make them the same for ease of play. Call them lesser daemons, pay one price, if you have a khorne lord, you get bloodletters with these abilities and stats, tzeentch, this, etc.

I'm in the minority, I'm sure, but I actually like having "summoned lesser daemons" (instead of bloodletters, horrors, etc) because it gives me a chance to use a bit of imagination and convert models from some of the other Fantasy ranges. I would be happy if they kept "SLDs" but gave them access to marks.

[Draconis]

Whilst I definitely see your point, I'd like to add that if everything would be taken literally, the Daemon codex would be one of infinite size with infinite units, each representing the different power levels (not all Horrors of Tzeentch are equally strong, but this is not represented in the game other than the option to take Bolt of Change). Whilst you're obviously not arguing for this to happen, you have to give the writers some leeway when it comes to the single most abstract being in an already very abstract codex in a very abstract universe. A base profile with count-as marks (given a different name and some fluff) would be a more than suitable way to make people happy with the return of God-aligned Daemons in their power armor codex, as well as provide even more variety and opportunities to sell plastic gold to customers.

You mean like the IG codex? Oh yeah...

I could create a simple, easy to use CSM codex using the actual deamons in no time. You could easily make specific daemons Elite choices the become troops with Lords that share a mark of their god. Or even leave them troops but at a couple points higher than say the daemon codex. CSM armies use daemons as troops and fodder. Why should they only have access to generic versions.

I'm in the minority, I'm sure, but I actually like having "summoned lesser daemons" (instead of bloodletters, horrors, etc) because it gives me a chance to use a bit of imagination and convert models from some of the other Fantasy ranges. I would be happy if they kept "SLDs" but gave them access to marks.

I dont know. I'd be happy if they recombined the two dexes. We had that once already and it was fine. It wasn't a huge dex, the current Vanilla SM dex is much bigger. The IG makes it seem tiny. And it had all the options.

[Charistoph]

I dont know. I'd be happy if they recombined the two dexes. We had that once already and it was fine. It wasn't a huge dex, the current Vanilla SM dex is much bigger. The IG makes it seem tiny. And it had all the options.

Codex design schemes were much simpler back then. Usually only a sentence or two describing the unit in the Army List margins. A few pages of story, a couple pages for armory, a few more pages dedicated to Special Characters, the picture gallery/painting guide, and that was pretty much it apart from the "Special Army List" pages after the army list.

Nowadays, any unit entry has a whole page for fluff, a picture, and Unique Special Rules/Gear, a whole new scheme involved here (and much better, imo).

[EbayTroll]

Does it matter as long as they continue the trend of quality, viable, and fluffy dexes??? I just want to see it done!


Aaron

[B Cullen]

There's an awful lot of "should"s in this Daemon Weapon discussion.

Perhaps you'd care to continue it elsewhere.

Apologies Dude, I thought it was a valid topic of conversation.

Personally I'm still focused on the fact that Chosen FINALLY get some models, and lotz o' cool upgrade options! With the mention to me of Bikers a few times, i could easily fathom Chosen having the following upgrades: Jump Packs, Bikes, Dread Claw/Rhino/Land Raider Daemonicus, etc.

Thanks yet again, TDG. If that pans out, I would be very happy to field my uber-Chosen again, though I do hope that they can have Termy armor upgrades as mentioned earlier. Also, the Land Raider Daemonicus has a nice ring to it. Did you come up with that one yourself or is there a bit more to it?

On a more personal note, it has been a while since we've heard any rumors on the possible universal rules for each Legion, anything new on that front? I'm personally hoping for Acute Senses for the Night Lords, we need our night sight back...

[Draconis]

I'm still skeptical of the rumors. I just don't see GW branching away from their golden boys to give another codex equal justic in quality.

[wyvirn]

So with the this wealth of information compared to the other factions, I think it would be a safe bet that Chaos will come out next, which will probably be before 6th hits. (If it doesn't, it will have been at least 8 months since the last codex dropped, which doesn't sound like GW). I was sort of hoping that we would be released after 6th to get the most from it's rules. I have a feeling that we will hear about these traitors in the next month or two, otherwise the release might be too close to 6th. Unless GW wanted to do some sort of dual release, but now I'm just rambling on top of speculating.

[theDarkGeneral]

Just a name I threw out there, because if the daemon spirits within. I haven't heard anything further on Legion specific rules. Daemons definitely aren't a focus, but daemonic possession is...might even be an HQ upgrade...

With 6th Edition changing the way deepstrike and reserves work, it'll be worth waiting on another Daemons codex.

I doubt Chosen will get access to Terminator Armor, with the return of Cult Terminators, and to keep different from regular Astartes. But I could be wrong on this.

Daemon Prince options are more similar to the Daemon Codex, even jokingly mentioning would it be cool if a daemon prince could carry a gun?

[Diavlo]

Just a name I threw out there, because if the daemon spirits within. I haven't heard anything further on Legion specific rules. Daemons definitely aren't a focus, but daemonic possession is...might even be an HQ upgrade...

With 6th Edition changing the way deepstrike and reserves work, it'll be worth waiting on another Daemons codex.

I doubt Chosen will get access to Terminator Armor, with the return of Cult Terminators, and to keep different from regular Astartes. But I could be wrong on this.

Daemon Prince options are more similar to the Daemon Codex, even jokingly mentioning would it be cool if a daemon prince could carry a gun?

Is there something you are not telling us or I have missed something .
You said about that new deepstrike rules as If you are sure its a fact.
I have studied that 'leaked' and it has new deepstrike rules, but many people call it a fake.
So now, I know you are well respected rumourmonger therefore here comes a new question.
Are you refering to that 'leaked' one or to the one that we didn't see yet.

Thanks

[The Dude]

I doubt Chosen will get access to Terminator Armor, with the return of Cult Terminators, and to keep different from regular Astartes. But I could be wrong on this.

I doubt that, as it leaves those Legions who don't use Cults without an option for Terminators. Word Bearers, for example, would look strange having to force in cults just to get some 2+ saves.

[gunmnky]

So far I don't see anything as scary as the 3.5 codex. I know a lot of people complained about the lash, but the only time it was used on me, it brought a unit of guard veterans into rapid fire range with 3 plasma guns and a lascannon. Didn't work out so well for the demon prince in my shooting phase. That's just my experience with it.

Chaos did get screwed a bit with the latest codex, but doesn't really need a whole overhaul to fix. I wonder how many of these rumors will actually pan out.

[BDJV]

I doubt that, as it leaves those Legions who don't use Cults without an option for Terminators. Word Bearers, for example, would look strange having to force in cults just to get some 2+ saves.

I would imagine that he is implying that the Terminators will remain their own entry with the options to upgrade them to the cult versions.

[Draconis]

So far I don't see anything as scary as the 3.5 codex. I know a lot of people complained about the lash, but the only time it was used on me, it brought a unit of guard veterans into rapid fire range with 3 plasma guns and a lascannon. Didn't work out so well for the demon prince in my shooting phase. That's just my experience with it.

Chaos did get screwed a bit with the latest codex, but doesn't really need a whole overhaul to fix. I wonder how many of these rumors will actually pan out.

CSM needs a whole overhaul. Not all of us like playing generic space marines with spikes. You have 9 traitor legions and countless pirate ones plus 2nd gen legions. You shouldn't be able to fit that all in one codex. After all, it would be hilarious if all space marines were now forced to use the Ultramarine codex wouldn't it? Cause thats the same thing.

[theDarkGeneral]

I believe there are two different types of Terminators.

As for the leaked 6th edition rules, they're a fabrication, most of it is false. There are a few things correct.

[The Dude]

I would imagine that he is implying that the Terminators will remain their own entry with the options to upgrade them to the cult versions.

Yeah, total brain-fart moment there. I blame The Dudeling waking me up at 3.30am this morning and only letting me doze on the couch as he happily played in the lounge

I believe there are two different types of Terminators.

Meaning straight out CSM Terminators and the option to upgrade cults, or something else?

As for the leaked 6th edition rules, they're a fabrication, most of it is false. There are a few things correct.

Like things that had already been rumoured before it surfaced

[MajorWesJanson]

I believe there are two different types of Terminators.

What, basic terminators with or without marks, and Cult terminators that not only have marks but USRs like the Cult troops?

[gunmnky]

CSM needs a whole overhaul. Not all of us like playing generic space marines with spikes. You have 9 traitor legions and countless pirate ones plus 2nd gen legions. You shouldn't be able to fit that all in one codex. After all, it would be hilarious if all space marines were now forced to use the Ultramarine codex wouldn't it? Cause thats the same thing.

I didn't preclude separate legion books. In fact, I'm surprised they haven't released at least one book specifically for the 4 gods (after all, they did release codex: craft world). I'm saying the current codex isn't bad, it just needs things like demons either removed and replaced with useful items, or beefed up so that they are actually worth taking. There are other nagging issues, like abaddon's fearless not working for the unit he's in (I actually took out a whole unit of chosen + abaddon using sanction psykers + callidus back in the day. Was a sad sight to see them suffer instant death from a template weapon).

My point is, there are a lot of perfectly good rules and units in it.

[Sureshot05]

Surely what Dark General is hinting at is two entries:
"Chaos terminators"
"Chaos cult terminators"

Would fit well in the codex and be exactly the sort of entry that cult players have moaned about since the last codex dropped.

For me, the daemon engines are the real excitment in this release. It helps to further differentiate CSM's and provides an amazing conversion opportunities at the same time. It is going to prove to be an excellent year for me at this rate.

[Born Again]

A lil' additional note: another member asked if I could comment on Huron Blackheart and the Red Corsairs...

Well from what I've gathered from everything i'm being told (and again i'm sure some of it is incorrect) there's not a lot of focus or attention on newer Chaos Space Marine chapters. The focus is mostly on the original 9 Traitor Legions and some of their direct splits.

This doesn't mean that some of these Characters like Huron won't appear, I really don't know. It does seem however that GW main is letting Forge World handle more of the 'successor' chapters and Traitor Guard options.

I can see GQ main eventually making another Lost and the Damned style codex, but perhaps not for at least another year. They still have Daemons (both 40K & Fantasy) and Warriors of Chaos scheduled tentatively for sometime next year, might be a lot of extra Chaos going around that could flood the market and not sell as well. I'd like to think they would, but GW main often makes decisions that I say "huh???" to.

Thanks for the info on that. Personally even though I am a Corsairs player I like the idea of a Legions-centric codex. If it's tasty enough I might even be tempted in to a WB or DG army... but I was a little concerned about earlier rumours that was mentioning the current codex staying on as a Renegades list, or Huron and crew being relegated to Elites/ HQ choices in LatD style armies, which would rob us of much of the Chaos fun that made me want to play the army in the first place. As long as there's an option for a "generic" Chaos Space Marine army (ie one not aligned to a specific Legion) and Huron is still in as a SC (highly likely he'll stick around in some format I guess, as his model is not that old), I'll make it work.

I still think there should be a unit of cultists in the CSM book though, and if they do get around to doing a dedicated LatD book later on, I think that will only be a good thing.

I have also been pondering a lot about the Possessed and their possible upgrade traits. Rending and Fleet would of course be sensible and nostalgic, but Feel No Pain, Furious Charge, Wings, Power Weapons, Preferred Enemy and Stealth come to mind. If it is only 2 upgrades max, and those are our options what would players lean towards? Maybe a 16 man squad of Possessed w/Wings and Rending? Or perhaps Preferred Enemy w/Furious Charge?

Wings with either Rending or Power Weapons seems like the best (ie; nastiest ) way to go. But is this just you "pondering" as you say, or a hint at what we may actually be getting?

[Silent Surrender]

Id rather see marks conferring the same bonus as the current cult troops have. Otherwise how would you get an HQ choise for example, of Nurgle with feel no pain? Thinking about it, if there is a separate choise for cult terminators maybe theres separate choises for differently marked chaos lords? I could see them even having different stats like Khorne with higher WS, S and A. Slaanesh with higher BS and I, Nurgle with higher T (obviously) and lower I and Tzeentch with lower WS and better invul save.